Hey,
I need to develop a software for a small company, but I really feel that I want to make it all based on free-software... The software will include some code (Duh) which I will write in Java, along with a DBMS...
So, I was thinking of using Eclipse for developing the software, and using the new free Oracle 10g-Express Editionhttp://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.htmlas the DBMS...
Have any of you tried this combination before? I think I'm settled about using Eclipse to develop the software, but how about the DBMS? Suggestions?
-- A. Helmy
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 23:48 +0200, Ali Helmy wrote:
Hey,
I need to develop a software for a small company, but I really feel that I want to make it all based on free-software... The software will include some code (Duh) which I will write in Java, along with a DBMS...
So, I was thinking of using Eclipse for developing the software, and using the new free Oracle 10g-Express Edition as the DBMS...
If you are going to learn a new database, i.e. you haven't worked with Oracle before, why not use PostgreSQL or MySQL...
Have any of you tried this combination before? I think I'm settled about using Eclipse to develop the software, but how about the DBMS? Suggestions?
If you need an alternative to Eclipse, try Kdevelop. However, eclipse is a very useful piece of software for what you are starting.
Furthermore, what source control system is the application going to be maintained under? CVS, subversion, etc....
Sean
On Saturday 31 December 2005 3:57 pm, Sean Bruno wrote:
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 23:48 +0200, Ali Helmy wrote:
Hey,
I need to develop a software for a small company, but I really feel that I want to make it all based on free-software... The software will include some code (Duh) which I will write in Java, along with a DBMS...
So, I was thinking of using Eclipse for developing the software, and using the new free Oracle 10g-Express Edition as the DBMS...
Eclipse is a butt-kicking development environment. I would not use the version that comes with Fedora, though. I want more control over my development environment so I usually install it separately. I also install Java separately and then control it with environmental variables.
If you are going to learn a new database, i.e. you haven't worked with Oracle before, why not use PostgreSQL or MySQL...
I agree with Sean here. PostgreSQL or MySQL will be quite a bit less complicated to set up and administer than Oracle. And, if you stick to mostly "standard" SQL, your applications will be fairly transferable between DBMS.
Have any of you tried this combination before? I think I'm settled about using Eclipse to develop the software, but how about the DBMS? Suggestions?
If you need an alternative to Eclipse, try Kdevelop. However, eclipse is a very useful piece of software for what you are starting.
Furthermore, what source control system is the application going to be maintained under? CVS, subversion, etc....
Critical piece of advice here. Be sure that you pick a good one (Eclipse works with CVS "out of the box"). Quite often people discount the source control system. Where I work, we have over 750Mg of source code under CVS.
Hey,
About Eclipse, why isn't the version with fedora good enough? Are there some bugs or problems I should know about? I am going to develop the app as a java program, to work on windows JVM, but I'm going to develop it on FC4... What version do you think I should use?
About source control, I haven't really thought about which one to use, but I think I will stick to CVS since it's most popular on the www, and since you say it fits with Eclipse...
About DBMS, as I said, I want the app to work on windows in the end, so Oracle is the DBMS I know that has both linux & SQL distributions... Are there any others that are good enough? I won't be needing any complex features, just normal SQL queries...
Thanks
On 1/1/06, Rich Stanford rich@stanfordsystems.org wrote:
On Saturday 31 December 2005 3:57 pm, Sean Bruno wrote:
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 23:48 +0200, Ali Helmy wrote:
Hey,
I need to develop a software for a small company, but I really feel that I want to make it all based on free-software... The software will include some code (Duh) which I will write in Java, along with a DBMS...
So, I was thinking of using Eclipse for developing the software, and using the new free Oracle 10g-Express Edition as the DBMS...
Eclipse is a butt-kicking development environment. I would not use the version that comes with Fedora, though. I want more control over my development environment so I usually install it separately. I also install Java separately and then control it with environmental variables.
If you are going to learn a new database, i.e. you haven't worked with Oracle before, why not use PostgreSQL or MySQL...
I agree with Sean here. PostgreSQL or MySQL will be quite a bit less complicated to set up and administer than Oracle. And, if you stick to mostly "standard" SQL, your applications will be fairly transferable between DBMS.
Have any of you tried this combination before? I think I'm settled about using Eclipse to develop the software, but how about the DBMS? Suggestions?
If you need an alternative to Eclipse, try Kdevelop. However, eclipse is a very useful piece of software for what you are starting.
Furthermore, what source control system is the application going to be maintained under? CVS, subversion, etc....
Critical piece of advice here. Be sure that you pick a good one (Eclipse works with CVS "out of the box"). Quite often people discount the source control system. Where I work, we have over 750Mg of source code under CVS.
-- Rich Stanford
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
-- A. Helmy
Hi
It's probably not me who can give good advice, but our situation seems to be similar. I mean I have an system plan, partly written code in MS C# and an near fully written DBMS. Now I'm on to way to work in JAVA, to aviod all possible tipical MS problem.
The first question I had if I was going to use GPL or not? It because the copyleft. I don't want to make that program free. It is going to be an explicit economical system. Why should I make it free? But with GPL I would have to. This is the reason why the ORACLE could be better than MS-SQL or Postgree-SQL (which I haven't used yet anyway).
I read the licence possibilities at mysql.com and they offer two kind of licences. One is the GPL, and the other one is when you should pay. That's not a way I colud go on. I think you neither.
One more thing. I tried Eclipse if I colud work in it. I don't know it yet, but it seems fair system. On the other hand it is freezing on my FC4 (fully updated) system. Both the Fedora built in version and what I have download from Eclipse.
Also I found that anyone can download and use the Sun Java Studio freely after a simple registration in their developer center.
I'm no sure which one I will use at last, but there are several chance, we can think about! Yes, and don't forget the "awfull" problem with the right!
Peter
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:54:34 +0100, Ali Helmy alihelmy@gmail.com wrote:
Hey,
About Eclipse, why isn't the version with fedora good enough? Are there some bugs or problems I should know about? I am going to develop the app as a java program, to work on windows JVM, but I'm going to develop it on FC4... What version do you think I should use?
About source control, I haven't really thought about which one to use, but I think I will stick to CVS since it's most popular on the www, and since you say it fits with Eclipse...
About DBMS, as I said, I want the app to work on windows in the end, so Oracle is the DBMS I know that has both linux & SQL distributions... Are there any others that are good enough? I won't be needing any complex features, just normal SQL queries...
Thanks
On 1/1/06, Rich Stanford rich@stanfordsystems.org wrote:
On Saturday 31 December 2005 3:57 pm, Sean Bruno wrote:
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 23:48 +0200, Ali Helmy wrote:
Hey,
I need to develop a software for a small company, but I really feel that I want to make it all based on free-software... The software
will
include some code (Duh) which I will write in Java, along with a DBMS...
So, I was thinking of using Eclipse for developing the software, and using the new free Oracle 10g-Express Edition as the DBMS...
Eclipse is a butt-kicking development environment. I would not use the version that comes with Fedora, though. I want more control over my development environment so I usually install it separately. I also install Java separately and then control it with environmental variables.
If you are going to learn a new database, i.e. you haven't worked with Oracle before, why not use PostgreSQL or MySQL...
I agree with Sean here. PostgreSQL or MySQL will be quite a bit less complicated to set up and administer than Oracle. And, if you stick to mostly "standard" SQL, your applications will be fairly transferable between DBMS.
Have any of you tried this combination before? I think I'm settled about using Eclipse to develop the software, but how about the DBMS? Suggestions?
If you need an alternative to Eclipse, try Kdevelop. However, eclipse is a very useful piece of software for what you are starting.
Furthermore, what source control system is the application going to be maintained under? CVS, subversion, etc....
Critical piece of advice here. Be sure that you pick a good one (Eclipse works with CVS "out of the box"). Quite often people discount the source control system. Where I work, we have over 750Mg of source code under CVS.
-- Rich Stanford
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
-- A. Helmy
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 13:17 +0100, Császár Péter wrote:
The first question I had if I was going to use GPL or not? It because the copyleft. I don't want to make that program free. It is going to be an explicit economical system. Why should I make it free? But with GPL I would have to. This is the reason why the ORACLE could be better than MS-SQL or Postgree-SQL (which I haven't used yet anyway).
I read the licence possibilities at mysql.com and they offer two kind of licences. One is the GPL, and the other one is when you should pay. That's not a way I colud go on. I think you neither.
To object to having to pay for the tools when you want to sell something made with them, to others, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
Hey mate,
*And, the one that comes with Fedora is compiled already....and that is fine as long as your target machine is running the same JVM.* ** Well, then why is that? You see, that really is the exact problem, i will be developing on FC4, while my target for the software is Windows... if it were up to me, I would have built the software to run on FC and installed FC on the target machine, but its not mine, and im not sure I can convince the guys at the company to convert their PC to FC...
But I update everything installed on the computer on FC4 once, atleast every two days... so shouldn't this atleast keep my eclipse close by to the most recent updates? are there any specific repositories i should use with yum to make sure?
-- A. Helmy
* Ali Helmy alihelmy@gmail.com [2006-01-01 09:22]:
And, the one that comes with Fedora is compiled already....and that is fine as long as your target machine is running the same JVM.
"Write once, run anywhere" ... YMMV :)
Well, then why is that?
Pardon?
Andrew
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:44:49 +0100, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 13:17 +0100, Császár Péter wrote:
The first question I had if I was going to use GPL or not? It because the copyleft. I don't want to make that program free. It is going to be an explicit economical system. Why should I make it free? But with GPL I would have to. This is the reason why the ORACLE could be better than MS-SQL or Postgree-SQL (which I haven't used yet anyway).
I read the licence possibilities at mysql.com and they offer two kind of licences. One is the GPL, and the other one is when you should pay. That's not a way I colud go on. I think you neither.
To object to having to pay for the tools when you want to sell something made with them, to others, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
I can understand your view, however this topic can lead us to a contest.
The end point of my the dilemma in this topic is simple. Everybody has to begin somewhere, everybody have eat something. That is it. One sometimes can give things freely, sometimes can't.
Anyway if I really want to make something to be free, there is now way I would forbid the usage of it. I haven't used the GPL for the last few small educational program I wrote, because of copyright. I give them freely. Ok, those are nothings in the profession, but the principle is given.
Another thought. If a company uses GPL programs as tools to make something not a software for what other purpose it colud have than grove money, it have the right. But a programmer who make software, don't have the right. So than why isn't forbidden the useage in all way that leads to direct profit? On this way we are going to forbid everything.
Just a joke: what was the first? The egg or the chicken?
Peter
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 07:44, Tim wrote:
To object to having to pay for the tools when you want to sell something made with them, to others, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
Why? Some people want and can afford to give their work away and some can't. There is nothing wrong with providing your customers a better value by letting them use components freely available to them as well. The GPL goes out of its way to prevent this, sometimes as in MySQL's case, to restrict competition against the owner's own commercial product. PostgreSQL, however, has no such restrictions and is really intended to be used in any way possible. Like other BSD-style licenses there are no issues with commercial use.
Tim:
To object to having to pay for the tools when you want to sell something made with them, to others, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
Les Mikesell:
Why?
Because it is... Sure, you can object to it, and raise all sorts of arguments to defend it, but it doesn't detract from it being "hypocritical".
I don't have any particular problem with someone using free software to make money out of it, if it's allowed. But to *complain* about having to pay for your tools when you're going to make money from the results is hypocritical exploitative selfishness.
Just what sort of attitude would you adopt if your customers, then, decided that they wanted to use your tools without having to pay for them?
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:04:03 +0100, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Tim: I don't have any particular problem with someone using free software to make money out of it, if it's allowed. But to *complain* about having to pay for your tools when you're going to make money from the results is hypocritical exploitative selfishness.
It seems to you misunderstand my voice. Perhaps because my composition was bad. It easily happens because english isn't my mother tongue. I do not complian. The GPL is one of the best thing the humanity ever made and received. I welcomed it the first time I read.
The reason I mentoined not to pay for a tool, is that sometimes one can't afford it. If I had the resource (and of course if my costumers had), I would pay for it gladly. Don't forget one thing: all life (and all thing in life) starts with some kind of selfishness from one, and some kind of selflessness from other.
Just what sort of attitude would you adopt if your customers, then, decided that they wanted to use your tools without having to pay for them?
You said I am hypocritical and selfish. Thank you, you are "really nice"! Think about the next a bit: What I wouldn't like is to profit someone from MY work. For example: let say I give someone something in any way even for free. Now, if he use it to make something more complex, I wouldn't stop him form profit from that extension in the way he likes to. He had worked for it. If I stopped him, that would be selffishness in my view.
Peter
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 06:17, Császár Péter wrote:
The first question I had if I was going to use GPL or not? It because the copyleft. I don't want to make that program free. It is going to be an explicit economical system. Why should I make it free? But with GPL I would have to. This is the reason why the ORACLE could be better than MS-SQL or Postgree-SQL (which I haven't used yet anyway).
Postgresql is not restricted by the GPL. You can use it any way you want.
Hey lads,
Well, we're steering of the path of my mail here, about advice of what development environment and DBMS to use, but bloody hell, you got me hooked, here are my (as the yanks say) two cents:
I believe that software that is much better deployed and developed with an OS license... you can never harness the power of open source debuggin, testing and extension in a closed environment... but then again, being a Computer Engineer and a Software developer myself, maybe humanity will benefit if i produce free software, but i will most definitely starve...
On 1/1/06, Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 06:17, Császár Péter wrote:
The first question I had if I was going to use GPL or not? It because
the
copyleft. I don't want to make that program free. It is going to be an explicit economical system. Why should I make it free? But with GPL I would have to. This is the reason why the ORACLE could be better than MS-SQL or Postgree-SQL (which I haven't used yet anyway).
Postgresql is not restricted by the GPL. You can use it any way you want.
-- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
-- A. Helmy
* Császár Péter csjpeter@freemail.hu [2006-01-01 07:14]:
One more thing. I tried Eclipse if I colud work in it. I don't know it yet, but it seems fair system. On the other hand it is freezing on my FC4 (fully updated) system. Both the Fedora built in version and what I have download from Eclipse.
This sounds like an issue with your machine or setup. File a bug at http://bugzilla.redhat.com if you think I can help with this.
Andrew
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:44:43 +0100, Andrew Overholt overholt@redhat.com wrote:
- Császár Péter csjpeter@freemail.hu [2006-01-01 07:14]:
One more thing. I tried Eclipse if I colud work in it. I don't know it yet, but it seems fair system. On the other hand it is freezing on my FC4 (fully updated) system. Both the Fedora built in version and what I have download from Eclipse.
This sounds like an issue with your machine or setup. File a bug at http://bugzilla.redhat.com if you think I can help with this.
Andrew
The next time when I'll be on that project, I'll look after it.
Thanks for your offer!
Hi,
* Ali Helmy alihelmy@gmail.com [2005-12-31 17:54]:
About Eclipse, why isn't the version with fedora good enough? Are there some bugs or problems I should know about? I am going to develop the app as a java program, to work on windows JVM, but I'm going to develop it on FC4... What version do you think I should use?
The only thing you may run into is the state of the class libraries. Non-gui areas are generally complete and shouldn't give you any problems. AWT and Swing are almost complete but the version of GNU Classpath that is part of libgcj in FC4 is not as complete as what is current upstream. Any success and/or bug reports are always appreciated :)
Andrew
-
Ali Helmy -
Andrew Overholt -
Császár Péter -
Les Mikesell -
Rich Stanford -
Sean Bruno -
Tim