I have a hub I'd like to run some tests on. For this purpose I've acquired two older desktops, I know that sounds backwards, but there you are. I'm going to put a minimal, one-cd install on both desktops and connect them with the hub. There won't be an internet connection, nor any other computers connected to the hub but the two old desktops.
Why exercise the hub you ask? Great question.
My neighbor has a SMC7004VWBR 802.11b wireless router which I connect through. I have an Asus WL-330g 802.11g ethernet adapter which I use for the wi-fi connection. It's supposed to be possible to connect the adapter to hub, and then several computers to the hub. I've spoken with Asus, who tried it with a similar SMC router and confirmed the setup. I spoke with SMC, who confirm that it's not the router.
I haven't totally eliminated the Asus WL-330g adapter as a suspect in this, but the net, so to speak, is closing on the hub. The SMC tech alternately suggested that a firewall running on the computer is causing the problem, or that the hub is at fault. I looked through the Windows2000 software installer, nothing there. Similarly, there wasn't a firewall under linux, this is on a dual boot machine, of course. Again, this points to the hub. I went through my browser settings with SMC and have tried multiple browsers. I want to stay focused on the hub for the moment.
The SMC tech suggested a "managed" hub, and definitely I'll check that out. In the meantime, though, I have these two older desktops and want to find out, if possible, if there's something wonky with the hub.
Unfortunately, the only diagnostic tool I really have is "ping." Obviously the two machines should be able to ping each other through the hub. I'll also try and set up some ftp, but I'd like to go at this systematically.
Is there a list of tests that I could run on this hub to confirm, one way or the other, if the hub is up to snuff?
Here are the details for the hub: "WiseCOM 8-Port 10BASE-T HUB
Compliant with 10BASE-T, 10BASE2 and 10BASE5 specifications of the IEEE 802.3 standard.
Automatically partitioning function to isolate network failure.
Equipped with a variety of informative LEDs for easy viewing and troubleshooting.
MDI-X/MDI selection switch, allowing you to swap the last 10BASE-T port transmit and receive ping assignments to link your hub to another hub.
easy to instll on a desktop environment
Emission: FCC Part 15 Class A
Ethernet HUB for Workgroup"
-from the box cover
Thanks,
Thufir
On 9/22/05, THUFIR HAWAT hawat.thufir@gmail.com wrote:
I have a hub I'd like to run some tests on. For this purpose I've acquired two older desktops, I know that sounds backwards, but there you are. I'm going to put a minimal, one-cd install on both desktops and connect them with the hub. There won't be an internet connection, nor any other computers connected to the hub but the two old desktops.
Why exercise the hub you ask? Great question.
My neighbor has a SMC7004VWBR 802.11b wireless router which I connect through. I have an Asus WL-330g 802.11g ethernet adapter which I use for the wi-fi connection. It's supposed to be possible to connect the adapter to hub, and then several computers to the hub. I've spoken with Asus, who tried it with a similar SMC router and confirmed the setup. I spoke with SMC, who confirm that it's not the router.
I haven't totally eliminated the Asus WL-330g adapter as a suspect in this, but the net, so to speak, is closing on the hub. The SMC tech alternately suggested that a firewall running on the computer is causing the problem, or that the hub is at fault. I looked through the Windows2000 software installer, nothing there. Similarly, there wasn't a firewall under linux, this is on a dual boot machine, of course. Again, this points to the hub. I went through my browser settings with SMC and have tried multiple browsers. I want to stay focused on the hub for the moment.
The SMC tech suggested a "managed" hub, and definitely I'll check that out. In the meantime, though, I have these two older desktops and want to find out, if possible, if there's something wonky with the hub.
Unfortunately, the only diagnostic tool I really have is "ping." Obviously the two machines should be able to ping each other through the hub. I'll also try and set up some ftp, but I'd like to go at this systematically.
Is there a list of tests that I could run on this hub to confirm, one way or the other, if the hub is up to snuff?
Here are the details for the hub: "WiseCOM 8-Port 10BASE-T HUB
Compliant with 10BASE-T, 10BASE2 and 10BASE5 specifications of the IEEE 802.3 standard.
Automatically partitioning function to isolate network failure.
Equipped with a variety of informative LEDs for easy viewing and troubleshooting.
MDI-X/MDI selection switch, allowing you to swap the last 10BASE-T port transmit and receive ping assignments to link your hub to another hub.
easy to instll on a desktop environment
Emission: FCC Part 15 Class A
Ethernet HUB for Workgroup"
-from the box cover
Use larg packets of at least 1500
-- Leonard Isham, CISSP Ostendo non ostento.
THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
I have a hub I'd like to run some tests on. For this purpose I've acquired two older desktops, I know that sounds backwards, but there you are. I'm going to put a minimal, one-cd install on both desktops and connect them with the hub. There won't be an internet connection, nor any other computers connected to the hub but the two old desktops.
I'd connect them using just the router first, and verify I can ping back and forth. Then when you substitute the hub for the router, if it fails, you won't wonder just what the problem is.
Or use a cross-over cable.
Why exercise the hub you ask? Great question.
Yes, indeed. Hubs are cheap these days. How much is your time worth? Especially this is a 10 Mbps hub, not even a 100 Mbps.
[snip]
Mike
On 9/22/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Yes, indeed. Hubs are cheap these days. How much is your time worth? Especially this is a 10 Mbps hub, not even a 100 Mbps.
Heck, switches are cheap these days. And switches go faster as they route packets to their destination instead of broadcasting them to everybody.
John Mahowald wrote:
On 9/22/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Yes, indeed. Hubs are cheap these days. How much is your time worth? Especially this is a 10 Mbps hub, not even a 100 Mbps.
Heck, switches are cheap these days. And switches go faster as they route packets to their destination instead of broadcasting them to everybody.
I was pointing out that the hardware he was trying to prove was not working was not worth the effort, and suggesting that he just junk it.
I wasn't trying to suggest what he replace it with.
But your point is well taken. The switches don't actually go faster (well, they do, because they'll be 100 Mbps :-) but they do prevent collisions, which has the same effect.
Mike
On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 22:14 -0500, John Mahowald wrote:
Heck, switches are cheap these days. And switches go faster as they route packets to their destination instead of broadcasting them to everybody.
They also make it harder for other LAN users to snoop your passwords, as your traffic *shouldn't* also go past their network connection.
On 9/23/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
John Mahowald wrote:
...
I was pointing out that the hardware he was trying to prove was not working was not worth the effort, and suggesting that he just junk it.
...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
-Thufir
THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
On 9/23/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
John Mahowald wrote:
...
I was pointing out that the hardware he was trying to prove was not working was not worth the effort, and suggesting that he just junk it.
...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
In that case, build/purchase a crossover cable. Then you'll *know*
Mike
On 9/27/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
...
In that case, build/purchase a crossover cable. Then you'll *know*
...
Well, I went out and bought a switch, fifteen canadian dollars, and plugged the Asus WL-330g adapter into the switch, reset and configured the adapter, and everthing works fine now.
So, unless my "experiment" is flawed, the problem was definitely the old hub. I'm curious, however, as to why the old hub failed. According to the manual a hub should work fine.
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
-Thufir
On Sat, 2005-10-01 at 07:34 +0100, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
On 9/27/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
...
In that case, build/purchase a crossover cable. Then you'll *know*
...
Well, I went out and bought a switch, fifteen canadian dollars, and plugged the Asus WL-330g adapter into the switch, reset and configured the adapter, and everthing works fine now.
So, unless my "experiment" is flawed, the problem was definitely the old hub. I'm curious, however, as to why the old hub failed. According to the manual a hub should work fine.
They work fine until they - well - until they fail.
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
The cheap hubs are not worth trying to do anything with. If a port fails it often gives no indication except loss of connectivity (sonetimes a loss of link light, and sometimes not).
AFAIK the cheaper ones are not manageable, and do nothing intelligent but autosense connections and perform switching. When they fail, they are toast.
If you want the ability to manage a switch they are often several hundred $ in cost.
-Thufir
On Sat, 2005-10-01 at 02:34, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
On 9/27/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
...
In that case, build/purchase a crossover cable. Then you'll *know*
...
Well, I went out and bought a switch, fifteen canadian dollars, and plugged the Asus WL-330g adapter into the switch, reset and configured the adapter, and everthing works fine now.
So, unless my "experiment" is flawed, the problem was definitely the old hub. I'm curious, however, as to why the old hub failed. According to the manual a hub should work fine.
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
-Thufir
This may have already been suggested but most hubs by default run at 10Mb half duplex. Did you verify using ethtool or mii-tool that your interfaces were running at the correct speed an duplex settings?
Mute now that you have a switch. But just a thought.
THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
On 9/27/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
The problem is that I don't really know what the problem, the hub itself might be fine. It's guesswork and trial and error.
...
In that case, build/purchase a crossover cable. Then you'll *know*
...
Well, I went out and bought a switch, fifteen canadian dollars, and plugged the Asus WL-330g adapter into the switch, reset and configured the adapter, and everthing works fine now.
Great!
So, unless my "experiment" is flawed, the problem was definitely the old hub. I'm curious, however, as to why the old hub failed. According to the manual a hub should work fine.
How long do your lightbulbs normally "work"?
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
Well, there are a number of ways to check out a hub, or any other piece of comm equipment. But you need hardware knowledge, and some test equipment.
Want a quick tutorial on how to use an oscilloscope?
Mike
On 10/4/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
How long do your lightbulbs normally "work"?
The hub in question was shrink wrapped when I bought it a few months ago. The hub appeared "mint", although was probably sitting in a warehouse for years. Also, I did use the hub to connect two computers directly which pinged each other succesfully. Penny wise and pound foolish on that purchase.
It's not so much that the hub didn't work but that it functioning was perhaps not one hundred percent. Or, perhaps, hub specifications changed and it was incompatible with this device. I'm curious as to whether the hub isn't "up to spec" or if the specifications have moved.
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
Well, there are a number of ways to check out a hub, or any other piece of comm equipment. But you need hardware knowledge, and some test equipment.
Ah, I thought there might be a software package.
Want a quick tutorial on how to use an oscilloscope?
...
Ah, well, no thanks. I was hoping for something more user friendly, heh.
I am somewhat curious as to why the hub worked in that it could be pinged across but failed in this specific scenario. It's not like the hub doesn't work at all, more that it just doesn't play nicely, perhaps, with a particular device. Similarly, while the switch plays better with this device, the Asus WL-330g, the behaviour isn't as expected. Perhaps that's just a lack of networking knowledge on my part, I've asked Asus for some clarifications.
-Thufir
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
On 10/4/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...
How long do your lightbulbs normally "work"?
The hub in question was shrink wrapped when I bought it a few months ago. The hub appeared "mint", although was probably sitting in a warehouse for years. Also, I did use the hub to connect two computers directly which pinged each other succesfully. Penny wise and pound foolish on that purchase.
It's not so much that the hub didn't work but that it functioning was perhaps not one hundred percent. Or, perhaps, hub specifications changed and it was incompatible with this device. I'm curious as to whether the hub isn't "up to spec" or if the specifications have moved.
A hub is a just a repeater. If it's a 10Mb/s ethernet hub you should be able to push 3-4Mb/s before the collision rate climbs enough to start effecting performance.
Aside from pings, how else can you test a hub?
Well, there are a number of ways to check out a hub, or any other piece of comm equipment. But you need hardware knowledge, and some test equipment.
Ah, I thought there might be a software package.
Want a quick tutorial on how to use an oscilloscope?
...
Ah, well, no thanks. I was hoping for something more user friendly, heh.
push bits through it.
I am somewhat curious as to why the hub worked in that it could be pinged across but failed in this specific scenario. It's not like the hub doesn't work at all, more that it just doesn't play nicely, perhaps, with a particular device. Similarly, while the switch plays better with this device, the Asus WL-330g, the behaviour isn't as expected. Perhaps that's just a lack of networking knowledge on my part, I've asked Asus for some clarifications.
-Thufir
-
Jeff Vian -
Joel Jaeggli -
John Mahowald -
Leonard Isham -
Mike McCarty -
Scot L. Harris -
Thufir -
Tim