FC Pine passfile default? Maintainer(s)?

[Beartooth]

Over on comp.mail.pine, I recently lucked into catching the invaluable
interest of Nancy McGough, the authority on making Pine jump through hoops
and like it at www.ii.com. With her vast help, I'm at least halfway (as
near as I can judge) to setting up a master Pine configuration to handle
my very different email accounts from one place; and at this point she has
recommended, and after consulting my local LUG I have agreed, that I would
do well to set up a passfile.

But there we hit a snag. She asks : 

>  OK, let's go for it! I can walk you through setting it up using 
>  the '-passfile' command-line argument, but it would be useful for 
>  you (and others!) to find out the default value that this RedHat 
>  Pine uses. Could you please ask the maintainer of that RH Pine 
>  package what is the default Pine PASSFILE that he/she built this 
>  RH Pine with? That way I can write about it in the Pine docs I'm 
>  writing. 
The snag, of course (as I have just explained, I hope not too verbosely,
on c.m.p) is that I have no idea who the maintainer is. (Incidentally, it
would be a vast benefit if someone could find a way to make "yum install
pine" work, presumably through some one or more of the unofficial repos.)

My own procedure, fwiw, is to get an rpm for each new Fedora, from UW or
Dag or livna; try "rpm -ivh" (or -Uvh); get a dependency or three (nearly
always); command "yum install <dependency>" -- hoping for all I'm
worth to
see that succeed; repeat the rpm command; and turn instantly back into a
happy camper. 

Until all that works, I keep one machine un-upgraded, just for running
Pine; I'm a diehard's diehard about that. (I took up linux, years ago,
most of all in order to be able to run real Pine.)

If there at least *IS* a Fedora default passfile for Pine, common to
maintainers of Pine for Fedora, what is it? Or if there is one maintainer,
or a chief maintainer, who is it and is there somewhere else I should ask?

If there are two or three defaults (for UW, livna, and Dag perhaps?), what
are they?

Fwiw, I'm sure my own present instance is from livna; but the more
definitively and completely I can report back to comp.mail.pine, and for
Nancy's splendid Pine FAQ, the better.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless FC Power User

[Paul Howarth]

On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 13:17 -0400, Beartooth wrote:
>  Over on comp.mail.pine, I recently lucked into catching the
> invaluable
>  interest of Nancy McGough, the authority on making Pine jump through hoops
>  and like it at www.ii.com. With her vast help, I'm at least halfway (as
>  near as I can judge) to setting up a master Pine configuration to handle
>  my very different email accounts from one place; and at this point she has
>  recommended, and after consulting my local LUG I have agreed, that I would
>  do well to set up a passfile.
>  
>  But there we hit a snag. She asks : 
>  
>  > OK, let's go for it! I can walk you through setting it up using 
>  > the '-passfile' command-line argument, but it would be useful for 
>  > you (and others!) to find out the default value that this RedHat 
>  > Pine uses. Could you please ask the maintainer of that RH Pine 
>  > package what is the default Pine PASSFILE that he/she built this 
>  > RH Pine with? That way I can write about it in the Pine docs I'm 
>  > writing.
>  
>  The snag, of course (as I have just explained, I hope not too verbosely,
>  on c.m.p) is that I have no idea who the maintainer is. (Incidentally, it
>  would be a vast benefit if someone could find a way to make "yum install
>  pine" work, presumably through some one or more of the unofficial repos.) 
pine is available in livna. Follow the instructions at
http://rpm.livna.org/configuration.html to configure your yum to use the
livna repo.

You can usually find out who the maintainer of a package is by looking
at the changelog:

$ rpm -q --changelog pine

>  My own procedure, fwiw, is to get an rpm for each new Fedora, from UW
> or
>  Dag or livna; try "rpm -ivh" (or -Uvh); get a dependency or three (nearly
>  always); command "yum install <dependency>" -- hoping for all I'm
> worth to
>  see that succeed; repeat the rpm command; and turn instantly back into a
>  happy camper.  
If you configure yum for Dag or livna (but not both since they are
incompatible with each other), you can just use yum and avoid this
hassle.

If you like the hassle, something else you'll want to avoid is trying
"yum localinstall some.rpm", where yum will try to install some.rpm for
you, getting all the dependencies it needs from your configured
repositories.

>  Until all that works, I keep one machine un-upgraded, just for
> running
>  Pine; I'm a diehard's diehard about that. (I took up linux, years ago,
>  most of all in order to be able to run real Pine.)
>  
>  If there at least *IS* a Fedora default passfile for Pine, common to
>  maintainers of Pine for Fedora, what is it? Or if there is one maintainer,
>  or a chief maintainer, who is it and is there somewhere else I should ask?
>  
>  If there are two or three defaults (for UW, livna, and Dag perhaps?), what
>  are they?
>  
>  Fwiw, I'm sure my own present instance is from livna; but the more
>  definitively and completely I can report back to comp.mail.pine, and for
>  Nancy's splendid Pine FAQ, the better. 
Pine's license will prevent it ever appearing in an official repo, so
livna is probably the place to go for.

Paul.

[Ed Greshko]

>  If there at least *IS* a Fedora default passfile for Pine, common to
>  maintainers of Pine for Fedora, what is it? Or if there is one maintainer,
>  or a chief maintainer, who is it and is there somewhere else I should ask?
>  
>  If there are two or three defaults (for UW, livna, and Dag perhaps?), what
>  are they?
>  
>  Fwiw, I'm sure my own present instance is from livna; but the more
>  definitively and completely I can report back to comp.mail.pine, and for
>  Nancy's splendid Pine FAQ, the better. 
First, I assume your ran, "pine -h | grep -i passfile".  If you did, and
there is a passfile argument, then at least you know that passfile
support was compiled in.

Next, if the maintainer was nice, you should try going into pine's help
section and seeing if the default passfile is documented.

If not, then you should find the pine src file in the given repository
and look in the spec file.  It is probably listed there.

Ed



-- 
"I won! I won!"

	--Ralph Wiggum
	  Lisa on Ice (Episode 2F05)

[Beartooth]

On Tue, 30 May 2006 05:17:19 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:

>  First, I assume your ran, "pine -h | grep -i passfile".  
Nope, sorry. That's beyond me, and no one on c.m.p suggested it. I suspect
you're overestimating me vastly.

>  If you did, and  there is a passfile argument, then at least you
> know
>  that passfile support was compiled in. 
I just did it and got : 

[btth@localhost ~]$ pine -h | grep -i passfile
 -passfile <fully_qualified_filename>   Set the password file to something other
 -nowrite_passfile      Read from a passfile if there is one, but never offer to write a
password to the passfile
[btth@localhost ~]$

That's also beyond me -- especially inasmuch as there is no "than"
correlated with the "other" -- nor do I get the point of the "never"

>  Next, if the maintainer was nice, you should try going into
> pine's help
>  section and seeing if the default passfile is documented. 
The only helps I know for pine are either vast beyond imagining, or else
tied to specific items in M > S > C ; so I don't know where nor how you
mean me to look.

>  If not, then you should find the pine src file in the given
> repository
>  and look in the spec file.  It is probably listed there. 
What's an src file? I don't hope ever to be competent with source code, if
it has something to do with that -- nor does pine, afaik, require me to be.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
FC5; CXO 5.0.1; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3;
Dillo 0.8.5, Galeon 2.0.1, Epiphany 2.14, Opera 8.54, Firefox 1.5
Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about.

[Ed Greshko]

Beartooth wrote:
>  On Tue, 30 May 2006 05:17:19 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>  
> > First, I assume your ran, "pine -h | grep -i passfile".  
>  
>  Nope, sorry. That's beyond me, and no one on c.m.p suggested it. I suspect
>  you're overestimating me vastly. 
Sorry...  Generally people get very upset when you underestimate them.

> > If you did, and  there is a passfile argument, then at least you
> know
> > that passfile support was compiled in.
>  
>  I just did it and got : 
>  
>  [btth@localhost ~]$ pine -h | grep -i passfile
>   -passfile <fully_qualified_filename>   Set the password file to something other
>   -nowrite_passfile      Read from a passfile if there is one, but never offer to write a
> password to the passfile
>  [btth@localhost ~]$
>  
>  That's also beyond me -- especially inasmuch as there is no "than"
>  correlated with the "other" -- nor do I get the point of the "never"
FWIW, the "-h" parameter generally means "help".  Should you want to
read the entire help just type "pine -h".

> > Next, if the maintainer was nice, you should try going into
> pine's help
> > section and seeing if the default passfile is documented. 
The maintainer of livna was even nicer and has already replied to you.

>  The only helps I know for pine are either vast beyond imagining, or
> else
>  tied to specific items in M > S > C ; so I don't know where nor how you
>  mean me to look.
>  
> > If not, then you should find the pine src file in the given repository
> > and look in the spec file.  It is probably listed there.
>  
>  What's an src file? I don't hope ever to be competent with source code, if
>  it has something to do with that -- nor does pine, afaik, require me to be. 
To use pine, no.  To learn its hidden secrets, maybe yes.

FWIW, when you ask questions for which there is no ready answer it may
require one of two things.  Either someone would have to know the answer
and tell you...or someone would have to dig for the answer.  That
"someone" could be you....or it could be someone kind person willing to
do the digging for you.

FYI, the answer was in the pine.spec file.  While you are probably not
interested in learning the gory details...never mind.

[Beartooth]

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 06:51:34 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:

> > Nope, sorry. That's beyond me, and no one on c.m.p suggested
> it. I suspect
> > you're overestimating me vastly.
>  
>  Sorry...  Generally people get very upset when you underestimate them. 
Yes, I know; so I try to be up front about my ignorance.
 
> >> If you did, and  there is a passfile argument, then at least
> you know
> >> that passfile support was compiled in.
> > 
> > I just did it and got : 
> > 
> > [btth@localhost ~]$ pine -h | grep -i passfile
> >  -passfile <fully_qualified_filename>   Set the password file to something
> other
> >  -nowrite_passfile      Read from a passfile if there is one, but never offer to
> write a password to the passfile
> > [btth@localhost ~]$
> > 
> > That's also beyond me -- especially inasmuch as there is no "than"
> > correlated with the "other" -- nor do I get the point of the
> "never"
>  
>  FWIW, the "-h" parameter generally means "help".  Should you want to
>  read the entire help just type "pine -h". 
Hmmm ... The "than" that I missed shows now. Fwiw, there's quite a bit in
there that I don't get, but more that I know, and a few things that may be
ones I've been looking for; very interesting, thanks -- I didn't realize
the -h worked for pine. (I had tried man pine and info pine.)

> >> Next, if the maintainer was nice, you should try going into
> pine's
> >> help section and seeing if the default passfile is documented.
>  
>  The maintainer of livna was even nicer and has already replied to you. 
Yes, that began as a reply direct to me, which he then apparently decided
also to post here -- and I'm glad, because I wasn't sure if it were OT.

> > The only helps I know for pine are either vast beyond imagining,
> or
> > else tied to specific items in M > S > C ; so I don't know where nor
> > how you mean me to look.
> > 
> >> If not, then you should find the pine src file in the given repository
> >> and look in the spec file.  It is probably listed there.
> > 
> > What's an src file? I don't hope ever to be competent with source code,
> > if it has something to do with that -- nor does pine, afaik, require me
> > to be. 
>  To use pine, no.  To learn its hidden secrets, maybe yes. 
All right, where do I find an explanation of an src file? I tried 

[btth@localhost ~]$ whereis pine.spec
pine: /usr/bin/pine /etc/pine.conf /usr/share/man/man1/pine.1.gz
[btth@localhost ~]$

and then looked through those with various commands. Watched for src, too,
and didn't see it, either.

>  FWIW, when you ask questions for which there is no ready answer it
> may
>  require one of two things.  Either someone would have to know the answer
>  and tell you...or someone would have to dig for the answer.  That
>  "someone" could be you....or it could be someone kind person willing to
>  do the digging for you. 
Well, I suppose I should have detailed my flounderings, looking in man
pine, .pinerc, pine.conf, google, etc.; I would have on a pine list, but
didn't expect anyone here to be interested. (Is there an acronym for *on*
topic?)

>  FYI, the answer was in the pine.spec file.  While you are probably
> not
>  interested in learning the gory details...never mind. 
I can't seem to find any pine.spec -- not with whereis, not in man pine,
and not with the GUI searcher in FC5.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
FC5; CXO 5.0.1; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3;
Dillo 0.8.5, Galeon 2.0.1, Epiphany 2.14, Opera 8.54, Firefox 1.5
Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about.

[Todd Zullinger]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Beartooth wrote:
> >> What's an src file? I don't hope ever to be competent
> with source
> >> code, if it has something to do with that -- nor does pine, afaik,
> >> require me to be.
>  
> > To use pine, no.  To learn its hidden secrets, maybe yes.
>  
>  All right, where do I find an explanation of an src file? I tried  
I believe the src that Ed was referring to is the pine source rpm, AKA
SRPM, .src.rpm.  It's the package that is used to create the binary
rpm that gets installed.

If you want to read alot more about that, there's a nice long document
here:

        http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/drafts/rpm-guide-en/index.html

> > FYI, the answer was in the pine.spec file.  While you are
> probably
> > not interested in learning the gory details...never mind.
>  
>  I can't seem to find any pine.spec -- not with whereis, not in man
>  pine, and not with the GUI searcher in FC5. 
The pine.spec file will be installed if you install the pine SRPM.
The location of the file will vary somewhat depending on what user you
install this as.  Source rpms aren't installed the same way as a
typical rpm.  The details of this are covered in the rpm guide
referenced above.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Becoming aware of my character defects leads me naturally to the next
step of blaming my parents.

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[Rex Dieter]

Beartooth wrote:
>  On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 06:51:34 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: 
> >FYI, the answer was in the pine.spec file.  While you are probably
> not
> >interested in learning the gory details...never mind. 
>  I can't seem to find any pine.spec -- not with whereis, not in
> man pine,
>  and not with the GUI searcher in FC5. 
pine src.rpm (which includes pine.spec) can be found at: 
http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/5/SRPMS/

-- Rex

[Rex Dieter]

Beartooth wrote:
>  Over on comp.mail.pine, I recently lucked into catching the
> invaluable
>  interest of Nancy McGough, the authority on making Pine jump through hoops
>  and like it at www.ii.com. With her vast help, I'm at least halfway (as
>  near as I can judge) to setting up a master Pine configuration to handle
>  my very different email accounts from one place; and at this point she has
>  recommended, and after consulting my local LUG I have agreed, that I would
>  do well to set up a passfile.
>  
>  But there we hit a snag. She asks : 
>  
> > OK, let's go for it! I can walk you through setting it up using 
> > the '-passfile' command-line argument, but it would be useful for 
> > you (and others!) to find out the default value that this RedHat 
> > Pine uses. Could you please ask the maintainer of that RH Pine 
> > package what is the default Pine PASSFILE that he/she built this 
> > RH Pine with? That way I can write about it in the Pine docs I'm 
> > writing.
>  
>  The snag, of course (as I have just explained, I hope not too verbosely,
>  on c.m.p) is that I have no idea who the maintainer is.  
I'm the pine maintainer @livna.  default passfile is ~/.pine.pwd

-- Rex

[Ed Greshko]

>  My own procedure, fwiw, is to get an rpm for each new Fedora, from UW
> or
>  Dag or livna; try "rpm -ivh" (or -Uvh); get a dependency or three (nearly
Oh, one last thing, at this point dag builds don't cover FC5.  Also,
with respect to pine he doesn't add support for passfile.