HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
On 7/30/05, Andy Pieters mailings@vlaamse-kern.com wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
Registered Linux User Number 379093 Now listening to Pink Floyd - Another Brick in The Wall
amaroK::the Coolest Media Player in the known Universe!
Cockroaches and socialites are the only things that can stay up all night and eat anything. Herb Caen
Is this a question? Are you looking for a solution? There is one, you know...
Dotan Cohen http://song-lirics.com/sl/artist/395/papa-roach-lirics.php Papa Roach
On Saturday 30 July 2005 13:34, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Is this a question? Are you looking for a solution? There is one, you know...
And which whould that be then?
With kind regards
Andy
On 7/30/05, Andy Pieters mailings@vlaamse-kern.com wrote:
On Saturday 30 July 2005 13:34, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Is this a question? Are you looking for a solution? There is one, you know...
And which whould that be then?
With kind regards
Andy
Registered Linux User Number 379093 Now listening to [silence]
amaroK::the Coolest Media Player in the known Universe!
Cockroaches and socialites are the only things that can stay up all night and eat anything. Herb Caen
You do like this: 1) Hi list, this is my problem: 2) This is what I did before the problem started/ here is how to reproduce the problem: 3) This is how I tried to fix it: 4) This is where I searched and this is what I found: 5) It didn't fix my problem because:
If you got this far (and I rarely do get to step 5, step 4 is usually enough), then more than likely someone with far greater experience with you, who has already solved exactly the same problem, will smile and say "try this".
Dotan http://song-lirics.com/sl/artist/377/nine-inch-nails-lirics.php Nine Inch Nails
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 12:00 +0200, Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
No-one on this list won't know what a BSOD is.
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
I've never heard of this cd. Is it new? Is it copy protected?
From a terminal windows, run this while ripping the cd:
tail -f /var/log/messages
See any errors?
nodata wrote:
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 12:00 +0200, Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
No-one on this list won't know what a BSOD is.
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
I've never heard of this cd. Is it new? Is it copy protected?
From a terminal windows, run this while ripping the cd:
tail -f /var/log/messages
See any errors?
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
Andy: I have had this exact same issue happen to me on 3 different occasions. I have not yet been able to reliably duplicate the problem. What I have discovered is that it appears that X is not responding to input. What I did each time was to exit X by pressing and holding down Control and ALT then pressing the Backspace key. This will tell X to exit gracefully and so far it has worked for me every time this has happened. I have my firewall set to block everything so I don't know if I would have been able to ssh in or not.
Try that if it locks up on you again and see if that at least allows you to regain control of the system.
Jim
--- Jim hd@jcshome.net wrote:
Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular.
I just bought another low
budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my
software (php/xml) looks
on internet explorer.
Learn proper procedurees and etiquete when dealing with a high-volume mailing list.
1. Are you asking a question or 2. Making a statement 3. In the fedoraforum they have a lounge suited for this type of activity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fedora Core - The power of Open Source Now! Please search the archives and http://fedoraforum.org as the question is likely to have been asked before. RH9 -> FC3 -> FC6 (Jan 2007)
Catch me at http://members.lycos.co.uk/bubudiu/ Ah the beauty of it all!
Cheers Captain Bubudiu
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 12:03 -0400, Jim wrote:
Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular. I just bought another low budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my software (php/xml) looks on internet explorer. Again it filled me with joy that I switched to Linux almost a year ago, for that windows box BSODed on me within the first fifteen minutes! (actually while trying to uninstall AOL) (BSOD=Blue Screen of Death = Kernel Error)
Still, one thing that windows handles well are bad cd's. When a cd fails, the whole os doesn't come crashing down. I was just ripping the cd Europe 1982-1992 on my Linux box and listening to my collection with amaroK. Suddenly the system got in an endless loop. The 5 seconds of music in the play buffer were repeated over and over again. I ejected the cd but that didn't save the system. I tried also to ssh in but that wasn't possible either. It didn't respond to pusing the poweroff button and the only solution was forced power off.
With kind regards
Andy
Andy: I have had this exact same issue happen to me on 3 different occasions. I have not yet been able to reliably duplicate the problem. What I have discovered is that it appears that X is not responding to input. What I did each time was to exit X by pressing and holding down Control and ALT then pressing the Backspace key. This will tell X to exit gracefully and so far it has worked for me every time this has happened. I have my firewall set to block everything so I don't know if I would have been able to ssh in or not.
Try that if it locks up on you again and see if that at least allows you to regain control of the system.
Jim
This has been mentioned here on the list, and the one thing I have seen repeated is the copy-protection theme.
The fix has been to avoid copy-protected CDs. Works every time. Any CD that trashes my PC will quickly become part of the land fill after I complain to the vendor and make him take it back and give me a different one. They often don't even play in a standard CD player, which is what triggers the replacement with a different one.
Jim Cornette wrote:
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
I almost agree with you. I'd just leave out "which is not part of the core operating system."
I thought the original message was a nicely put criticism. FCx has a real problem which certain other OS do not have. It should be fixed.
Mike
Jeff Vian wrote:
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 12:03 -0400, Jim wrote:
Andy Pieters wrote:
[that he had a problem with a CD causing a hang]
This has been mentioned here on the list, and the one thing I have seen repeated is the copy-protection theme.
The fix has been to avoid copy-protected CDs. Works every time. Any CD that trashes my PC will quickly become part of the land fill after I complain to the vendor and make him take it back and give me a different one. They often don't even play in a standard CD player, which is what triggers the replacement with a different one.
Emphatically, this is not a fix. I agree with boycotting copy-protected CDs. I disagree that anyone should put up with an OS that craters when it encounters a bad DATA DISC.
Would you put up with this in your autombile? You are driving along on a hiway, and encounter an oil slick on the road. Suddenly, you cannot use either your accelerator or brakes. "Well, just don't drive on oil slicks!" is *not* an answer.
Mike
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
I almost agree with you. I'd just leave out "which is not part of the core operating system."
I thought the original message was a nicely put criticism. FCx has a real problem which certain other OS do not have. It should be fixed.
True enough. It's not a reason not to use Linux, though. It's a reason to get the bug fixed.
What did you say the Bugzilla number for this problem was?
Mike
Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
I almost agree with you. I'd just leave out "which is not part of the core operating system."
I thought the original message was a nicely put criticism. FCx has a real problem which certain other OS do not have. It should be fixed.
True enough. It's not a reason not to use Linux, though. It's a reason to get the bug fixed.
Didn't say it was a reason not to use FCx.
What did you say the Bugzilla number for this problem was?
I think the guy with the problem should be the one to make an entry. I don't have any music CDs, so I can't really create an entry with any useful data in it. It's so tacky, don't you think, to create problem reports with gossip in them?
Mike
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
I almost agree with you. I'd just leave out "which is not part of the core operating system."
I thought the original message was a nicely put criticism. FCx has a real problem which certain other OS do not have. It should be fixed.
True enough. It's not a reason not to use Linux, though. It's a reason to get the bug fixed.
Didn't say it was a reason not to use FCx.
No, actually my remarks are directed more to the OP than you. Sorry...
What did you say the Bugzilla number for this problem was?
I think the guy with the problem should be the one to make an entry. I don't have any music CDs, so I can't really create an entry with any useful data in it. It's so tacky, don't you think, to create problem reports with gossip in them?
Sure.
To Jim Cornette and the original critic:
Could you please visit http://bugzilla.redhat.com/ and file a bug under product Fedora Core, Version 4, component kernel (if there's not already one there for this issue)?
Thanks for helping to make Fedora Core and Linux better rather than just complaining.
Mike
Mike McCarty wrote:
Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
If the error that he experienced is similar to the lockup reading that I experienced. The system acts like it was frozen in time. Everything stops at where it was and nothing works after the hang except a reboot. The screen has the same items displayed, the mouse is unresponsive, the keyboard is unreponsive. This should not happen to a system when a bad CD, floppy or usb media device is nounted on the system. Nobody wants their system killed by corrupted media which is not part of the core operating system.
I almost agree with you. I'd just leave out "which is not part of the core operating system."
I thought the original message was a nicely put criticism. FCx has a real problem which certain other OS do not have. It should be fixed.
True enough. It's not a reason not to use Linux, though. It's a reason to get the bug fixed.
Didn't say it was a reason not to use FCx.
What did you say the Bugzilla number for this problem was?
I think the guy with the problem should be the one to make an entry. I don't have any music CDs, so I can't really create an entry with any useful data in it. It's so tacky, don't you think, to create problem reports with gossip in them?
Mike
My problem was with one specific kernel version that is now long gone, an smp kernel. Hopefully, this sort of stopping the system dead in its tracks can be avoided. I have had problems with a card reader slowing the system down to a very slow rate before. Using these two problems, there is room for improvement when filesystems that are not primary to the system are faulty. There should be some sort of governor to break out of faulty filesystems that especially are of the removable media types. Other OSes, at least w9x also had problems caused by crashes due to defective removable media. Later version OSes do better when dealing with corrupt media, but may bring down the system in some cases. Linux can do better when dealing with this problem.
Jim
Matthew Saltzman wrote:
Thanks for helping to make Fedora Core and Linux better rather than just complaining.
I did find an existing bug that referred to removing hotpluggable devices which caused a system freeze. The bug looked nasty and is only remotely related to the problem I encountered. The bug is filed against kernel-utils, but could be a function of another program. The kernel version that I had troubles with has since been replaced and does seem to be at the core of the lockup that I experienced.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=164868
Jim
Hi all
I thought this thread was dead after the remarks of someone who thinks the meaning of life is to force his opinion about my way of posting...
Still, the cd isn't copy protected. It is, in fact, three years old and has seen more of the carpet then my vacuum cleaner.
That, and the fact that rented dvd's frequently cause the same problem (even worse, soundcard stuck in passthru because xine crashed) only emphasises my original assesment that a bad medium causes real problems with FC.
I have no idea whatsoever as to how the os handles removable media, but it seems that it is not limited to physical media. For instance, try umounting an nfs share when the server "sharing" is down.
Bad sectors on media are detected and logged, so how about trying to read three times, if it still fails, abandon, unlock the volume, and signal the program that the disk is no longer mounted or is corrupted.
With kind regards
Andy On Saturday 30 July 2005 21:15, Captain Bubudiu wrote:
--- Jim hd@jcshome.net wrote:
Andy Pieters wrote:
HI all
I am a huge fan of Linux and Fedora in particular.
I just bought another low
budget pc with windows xp on so I could test how my
software (php/xml) looks
on internet explorer.
Learn proper procedurees and etiquete when dealing with a high-volume mailing list.
- Are you asking a question or
- Making a statement
- In the fedoraforum they have a lounge suited for
this type of activity.
Fedora Core - The power of Open Source Now! Please search the archives and http://fedoraforum.org as the question is likely to have been asked before. RH9 -> FC3 -> FC6 (Jan 2007)
Catch me at http://members.lycos.co.uk/bubudiu/ Ah the beauty of it all!
Cheers Captain Bubudiu
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Andy Pieters wrote:
Hi all
I thought this thread was dead after the remarks of someone who thinks the meaning of life is to force his opinion about my way of posting...
Still, the cd isn't copy protected. It is, in fact, three years old and has seen more of the carpet then my vacuum cleaner.
That, and the fact that rented dvd's frequently cause the same problem (even worse, soundcard stuck in passthru because xine crashed) only emphasises my original assesment that a bad medium causes real problems with FC.
I have no idea whatsoever as to how the os handles removable media, but it seems that it is not limited to physical media. For instance, try umounting an nfs share when the server "sharing" is down.
Bad sectors on media are detected and logged, so how about trying to read three times, if it still fails, abandon, unlock the volume, and signal the program that the disk is no longer mounted or is corrupted.
With kind regards
Andy
I noticed this problem causing extreme slowdowns and also when it sends your system off a cliff, no responses at all.
I filed a bug report when there was a kernel version that would cause corruption frequently. Several different discs would bomb the system. With the next kernel version, I would not have system crashes.
I'm sure that there is work ongoing to correct this error. There is probably a lot involved in regards to programs, hardware, the state of the processor and the like. You can file a bug report against processes that are effected by this severe limitation that not having a clean exit from bad media.
Having discussions where knowledgable people know what portions of programs, hardware limitations can be undertaken to correct the problem. I know from reading posts in response to my comments that discussions are not going to go far on this list. The problem is real, but not a user list discussion issue.
I think your idea is good in regards to letting the system fail the process gracefully and release the hardware in a practical way.
Jim
BTW - The bug I filed is closed. The initial problem does not hamper me now. Th effects were a bit upsetting though and should not happen ever again. This is probably utopia dream, but one worth having. Closed report. Not much chasing to do, unless examining the older kernel. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=164868
-
Andy Pieters -
Captain Bubudiu -
Dotan Cohen -
Jeff Vian -
Jim -
Jim Cornette -
Matthew Saltzman -
Mike McCarty -
nodata