________________________________________ From: users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Richard Vickery [richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:30 PM To: Community support for Fedora users Subject: Re: Has my fedora 18 installation been hacked?
On Mar 15, 2013 9:39 AM, "Greg Woods" <woods@ucar.edumailto:woods@ucar.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 08:25 -0700, Richard Vickery wrote:
It is not really my intent to be rude, but each of us "hack" out own systems and the kernel all the time.
Unfortunately, this battle over the word "hack" and "hacker" has already been fought and lost. The media, and just about everyone other than hard-core geeks, uses the word "hack" to mean breaking into systems.
Not in my circles; I refuse to let people alternate the term.
Heck, that's why we co-opted the word "geek", which not that long ago was a very insulting term, and is now used as a term for people worthy of respect, similar to how "hacker" was used in the old days.
I suppose it is confusing that the meanings of these words have changed, but unfortunately the real meaning of a word is going to be defined by how it is most commonly used.
So change it!!! Don't let them beat you into the ground; correct them!
IMO, "hack" has sort of a violent sound to it, which makes me feel it is more appropriate for a forceful entry type of context, and I am not surprised that most people assume that this is what it should mean. Furthermore. where I am from "cracker" is a more or less insulting racial term so it just leads to awkwardness when I try to loftily throw it into a conversation. I do know the history of the term "hacker" but I have zero problems with the way it is used in the media.
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On Mar 15, 2013 2:36 PM, "McCrina, Nathan" nm177320@gordonstate.edu wrote:
From: users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [
users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Richard Vickery [ richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:30 PM To: Community support for Fedora users Subject: Re: Has my fedora 18 installation been hacked?
On Mar 15, 2013 9:39 AM, "Greg Woods" <woods@ucar.edu<mailto:
woods@ucar.edu>> wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 08:25 -0700, Richard Vickery wrote:
It is not really my intent to be rude, but each of us "hack" out own systems and the kernel all the time.
Unfortunately, this battle over the word "hack" and "hacker" has
already
been fought and lost. The media, and just about everyone other than hard-core geeks, uses the word "hack" to mean breaking into systems.
Not in my circles; I refuse to let people alternate the term.
Heck, that's why we co-opted the word "geek", which not that long ago was a very insulting term, and is now used as a term for people worthy of respect, similar to how "hacker" was used in the old days.
I suppose it is confusing that the meanings of these words have
changed,
but unfortunately the real meaning of a word is going to be defined by how it is most commonly used.
So change it!!! Don't let them beat you into the ground; correct them!
IMO, "hack" has sort of a violent sound to it, which makes me feel it is
more appropriate for a forceful entry type of context, and I am not surprised that most people assume that this is what it should mean. Furthermore. where I am from "cracker" is a more or less insulting racial term so it just leads to awkwardness when I try to loftily throw it into a conversation. I do know the history of the term "hacker" but I have zero problems with the way it is used in the media.
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture. Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture. Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky; nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are regularizing themselves whether we like it or not. So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
--doug
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture. Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky; nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are regularizing themselves whether we like it or not. So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative. Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
poc
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture. Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky; nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are regularizing themselves whether we like it or not. So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative. Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
If the lame ducks don't want to take back the term, that is their problem. If you are going to let Bill Gates and the Microshit team abuse the term after they abused end-users with a piece-of-crap OS that didn't work in '98 and still doesn't work. I refuse to let it be. I am a hacker, and if the police come up to me as some kind of criminal, I will make sure that they know the difference between someone who goes in to make a money transaction at a bank and one with the intent to rob a bank and take lives. There is nothing wrong with the term hacker; we all do it, and we have been hacking the kernel and computers and helping each other with broken networks for 70 years. I am not about to change just because some idiot dropped out of law school, bought Windows, and decided to give us a bad name, and call us all criminals, just because we tried to help him.
El vie, 15-03-2013 a las 17:03 -0700, Richard Vickery escribió:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote: > On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 > > Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term? > > You would have to re-write current popular culture. > > Language and it's use change, by it's very usage. > > > Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky; > nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor > still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used > for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means > a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have > "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are > regularizing themselves whether we like it or not. > So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes > unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie! I think you mean "C'est la vie", ... Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative. Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.If the lame ducks don't want to take back the term, that is their problem. If you are going to let Bill Gates and the Microshit team abuse the term after they abused end-users with a piece-of-crap OS that didn't work in '98 and still doesn't work. I refuse to let it be. I am a hacker, and if the police come up to me as some kind of criminal, I will make sure that they know the difference between someone who goes in to make a money transaction at a bank and one with the intent to rob a bank and take lives. There is nothing wrong with the term hacker; we all do it, and we have been hacking the kernel and computers and helping each other with broken networks for 70 years. I am not about to change just because some idiot dropped out of law school, bought Windows, and decided to give us a bad name, and call us all criminals, just because we tried to help him.
Amen!
On 03/15/2013 07:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
/snip/
So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
/snip
poc
Ya got me! French is not my strong suit!
--doug
On 15 March 2013 23:03, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700 Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture. Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky; nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are regularizing themselves whether we like it or not. So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative. Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
Yes, basically words can change use, but you get very circular if you start to say you think the meaning is changing so you must change to follow the dictionary definition. And words can have more than one meaning. Actually, the first example above. Gay used to mean happy and joyful, then meant homosexual, and for a long time was used as a playground insult, but the community it applies to have (in places at least) reclaimed it as something positive. The press generally get lots of detail wrong, so it doesn't really make sense to try and conform to their usage.
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