4:16 p.m.
________________________________________
From: users-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org [users-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Vickery [richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:30 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users
Subject: Re: Has my fedora 18 installation been hacked?
On Mar 15, 2013 9:39 AM, "Greg Woods"
<woods@ucar.edu<mailto:woods@ucar.edu>> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 08:25 -0700, Richard Vickery wrote:
> >
> > It is not really my intent to be rude, but each of us "hack" out own
> > systems and the kernel all the time.
>
> Unfortunately, this battle over the word "hack" and "hacker" has
already
> been fought and lost. The media, and just about everyone other than
> hard-core geeks, uses the word "hack" to mean breaking into systems.
Not in my circles; I refuse to let people alternate the term.
> Heck, that's why we co-opted the word "geek", which
not that long ago
> was a very insulting term, and is now used as a term for people worthy
> of respect, similar to how "hacker" was used in the old days.
>
> I suppose it is confusing that the meanings of these words have changed,
> but unfortunately the real meaning of a word is going to be defined by
> how it is most commonly used.
So change it!!! Don't let them beat you into the ground; correct
them!
IMO, "hack" has sort of a violent sound to it, which makes me feel it is more
appropriate for a forceful entry type of context, and I am not surprised that most people
assume that this is what it should mean. Furthermore. where I am from "cracker"
is a more or less insulting racial term so it just leads to awkwardness when I try to
loftily throw it into a conversation. I do know the history of the term "hacker"
but I have zero problems with the way it is used in the media.
*** Please note Gordon State College has changed all email addresses ending in @gdn.edu to
@gordonstate.edu ***
7:14 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On 03/15/2013 07:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
/snip/
> So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
> unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
/snip
poc
Ya got me! French is not my strong suit!
--doug
--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. A.M. Greeley
7:03 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com>wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
> On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
> > Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
> > You would have to re-write current popular culture.
> > Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
> >
> Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky;
> nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor
> still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used
> for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means
> a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have
> "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are
> regularizing themselves whether we like it or not.
> So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
> unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a
non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative.
Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
If the lame ducks don't want to take back the term, that is their problem.
If you are going to let Bill Gates and the Microshit team abuse the term
after they abused end-users with a piece-of-crap OS that didn't work in '98
and still doesn't work. I refuse to let it be. I am a hacker, and if the
police come up to me as some kind of criminal, I will make sure that they
know the difference between someone who goes in to make a money transaction
at a bank and one with the intent to rob a bank and take lives. There is
nothing wrong with the term hacker; we all do it, and we have been hacking
the kernel and computers and helping each other with broken networks for 70
years. I am not about to change just because some idiot dropped out of law
school, bought Windows, and decided to give us a bad name, and call us all
criminals, just because we tried to help him.
5:04 a.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On 15 March 2013 23:03, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
> On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
> > Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
> > You would have to re-write current popular culture.
> > Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
> >
> Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky;
> nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor
> still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used
> for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means
> a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have
> "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are
> regularizing themselves whether we like it or not.
> So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
> unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a
non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative.
Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
Yes, basically words can change use, but you get very circular if you
start to say you think the meaning is changing so you must change to
follow the dictionary definition. And words can have more than one
meaning. Actually, the first example above. Gay used to mean happy and
joyful, then meant homosexual, and for a long time was used as a
playground insult, but the community it applies to have (in places at
least) reclaimed it as something positive. The press generally get
lots of detail wrong, so it doesn't really make sense to try and
conform to their usage.
--
imalone
http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk
6:03 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
> Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
> You would have to re-write current popular culture.
> Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
>
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky;
nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor
still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used
for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means
a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have
"gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are
regularizing themselves whether we like it or not.
So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a
non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word alternative.
Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't program.
poc
5:47 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture.
Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky;
nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor
still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used
for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means
a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have
"gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs are
regularizing themselves whether we like it or not.
So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
--doug
--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. A.M. Greeley
5:25 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
You would have to re-write current popular culture.
Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
--
Regards,
Frank
http//www.frankly3d.com
5:21 p.m.
New subject: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
On Mar 15, 2013 2:36 PM, "McCrina, Nathan" <nm177320(a)gordonstate.edu>
wrote:
Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the term?
________________________________________
From: users-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org [
users-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Richard Vickery [
richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:30 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users
Subject: Re: Has my fedora 18 installation been hacked?
On Mar 15, 2013 9:39 AM, "Greg Woods" <woods(a)ucar.edu<mailto:
woods(a)ucar.edu>> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2013-03-15 at
08:25 -0700, Richard Vickery wrote:
>> >> > It is not really my
intent to be rude, but each of us "hack" out own
>> > systems and the kernel all the time.
> >> Unfortunately, this battle over the word
"hack" and "hacker" has
already
>> been fought and lost. The media, and just about everyone
other than
>> hard-core geeks, uses the word "hack" to mean breaking into systems.
>Not in my circles; I refuse to let people alternate the term.
>> Heck, that's why we co-opted the word "geek", which not that long
ago
>> was a very insulting term, and is now used as a term for people worthy
>> of respect, similar to how "hacker" was used in the old days.
> >> I suppose it is confusing that the meanings of these
words have
changed,
>> but unfortunately the real meaning of a word is going to be
defined by
>> how it is most commonly used.
>So change it!!! Don't let them beat you into the ground; correct them!
IMO, "hack" has sort of a violent sound to it, which makes me feel it is
more appropriate for a forceful entry type of context, and I am not
surprised that most people assume that this is what it should mean.
Furthermore. where I am from "cracker" is a more or less insulting racial
term so it just leads to awkwardness when I try to loftily throw it into a
conversation. I do know the history of the term "hacker" but I have zero
problems with the way it is used in the media.
8:50 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: "Hacker" vs "Cracker" et al.
El vie, 15-03-2013 a las 17:03 -0700, Richard Vickery escribió:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 18:47 -0400, Doug wrote:
> On 03/15/2013 06:25 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:07 -0700
> > Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Does this mean that you just let them adulterate the
term?
> > You would have to re-write current popular culture.
> > Language and it's use change, by it's very usage.
> >
> Language is fickle. Gay used to mean happy-go-lucky;
> nuke used to mean to drop an atom bomb on; transistor
> still is a three-wire device made (usually) of silicon, used
> for amplifiers and switches, but in common usage it means
> a radio; nice was once pejorative. And we used to have
> "gotten" and, a little earlier, "shaven" but our verbs
are
> regularizing themselves whether we like it or not.
> So whether you like it or not, hack usually connotes
> unlawful intrusion on a computer. Ce la vie!
I think you mean "C'est la vie", ...
Anyway, I still refer to talented programmers as hackers in a
non-perjorative sense because there isn't a good one-word
alternative.
Geeks doesn't cut it because there are lots of geeks who don't
program.
If the lame ducks don't want to take back the term, that is their
problem. If you are going to let Bill Gates and the Microshit team
abuse the term after they abused end-users with a piece-of-crap OS
that didn't work in '98 and still doesn't work. I refuse to let it be.
I am a hacker, and if the police come up to me as some kind of
criminal, I will make sure that they know the difference between
someone who goes in to make a money transaction at a bank and one with
the intent to rob a bank and take lives. There is nothing wrong with
the term hacker; we all do it, and we have been hacking the kernel and
computers and helping each other with broken networks for 70 years. I
am not about to change just because some idiot dropped out of law
school, bought Windows, and decided to give us a bad name, and call us
all criminals, just because we tried to help him.
Amen!
4065
days inactive
4067
days old
10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Doug -
Frank Murphy -
Ian Malone -
Joe Zeff -
McCrina, Nathan -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Richard Vickery -
Roger -
Sylvia Sánchez