Sound-setup with alsa and pulseaudio [was: Re: pulseaudio MUST DIE!]

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

Doug, Philip, and Everyone

I started a new thread with the quotes below to make
sure to not hijack the thread where they were taken from ...

Short version:
The whole thing isn't that important - if in doubt, ignore it ... :)
The main reason I wrote this email is plain and simple
curiosity about whether it can be done, and how: namely to feed sound
on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to 
internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system  

On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 21:49:17 -0500
Doug <dmcgarrett(a)optonline.net&gt; wrote:

[ ... ]

>  Perhaps I should elaborate: On my system, I have a MB with a sound
>  output. I also have an NVidia video card that also contains a sound
>  decoder with an HDMI output jack. With this combination, AND
>  PulseAudio, I can get simultaneous sound (near the computer with
>  the MOBO sound output) and video on both the local monitor and the
>  TV from the NVidio card, AND sound on the TV from the NVidia card
>  also, via the hdmi connection. It may take some serious fiddling
>  around with the possibilities in PA, but it CAN be done. 
To get sound simultaneously from your internal computer speakers and TV
(connected via HDMI): which tool(s) did you use? pavucontrol? paman?
paprefs?

Settings in ~/.asoundrc ?

Looks like I have two sound systems on my machine - if true it might be
possible to run them concurrently:
_______________________________
lspci -nnk |grep -A 7 -i vga
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor
Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0416] (rev 06)
	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
	Kernel driver in use: i915
	Kernel modules: i915
00:03.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD
Audio Controller [8086:0c0c] (rev 06)
	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
--
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Neptune
XT [Radeon HD 8970M] [1002:6801]
	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
	Kernel driver in use: radeon
	Kernel modules: radeon
01:00.1 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cape Verde/Pitcairn
HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 7700/7800 Series] [1002:aab0]
	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
_________________________

Specs regarding the lspci result from above:
Please note that on this machine there's one mini display port and one HDMI port:

AMD specs for the Radeon card say the DisplayPort 1.2 (mini
display port is broken on current Fedora¹ since quite some time) is
"Multi-Stream", while the specs on HDMI (works here) say nothing about
"Multi-Stream"
http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/oem/8900#

That's what Intel says about E3-1200 v4 
on
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e3-1200v4-vo...
--------------------------------
"The processor also integrates dedicated a Mini HD audio controller to drive audio on

integrated digital display interfaces, such as HDMI* and DisplayPort*. The HD audio 
controller on the PCH would continue to support down CODECs, and so on. The 
processor Mini HD audio controller supports two High-Definition Audio streams 
simultaneously on any of the three digital ports." 
------------------------------
The last sentence:
"The processor Mini HD audio controller supports two High-Definition
Audio streams simultaneously on any of the three digital ports."

Philip:
After I wrote, that I cannot use both speaker systems (internals
speakers from the computer and external ones from e.g. TV) at
the same time you mentioned ~/.asoundrc:

"That should be fixable with a properly configured .asoundrc file? - 
might need an ALSA guru to do it though . ."

Might be difficult to find ALSA gurus ... :) - but I played
with .asoundrc years ago on a Macintosh powerp machine, with Debian on
it - with surprising results (and I'm far from being an audio
guru):
https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2009/08/msg00049.html

So thanks for pointing to .asoundrc: it hinted to me that ALSA is
still there - didn't realize that - I simply thought it was gone with
pulseaudio. And yes: I had not much of an idea of what PA actually is
until yesterday - I just knew that audio worked here ... 

Sound setup tho' *might* become more complicated now with both
pulseaudio plus alsa being involved - not sure about it yet ..

Thanks again ..
Wolfgang

¹ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845

[Doug]

On 11/24/2017 04:02 PM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
>  Doug, Philip, and Everyone
>
>  I started a new thread with the quotes below to make
>  sure to not hijack the thread where they were taken from ...
>
>  Short version:
>  The whole thing isn't that important - if in doubt, ignore it ... :)
>  The main reason I wrote this email is plain and simple
>  curiosity about whether it can be done, and how: namely to feed sound
>  on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to
>  internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
>  those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system
>
>  On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 21:49:17 -0500
>  Doug <dmcgarrett(a)optonline.net&gt; wrote:
>
>  [ ... ]
>
> > Perhaps I should elaborate: On my system, I have a MB with a sound
> > output. I also have an NVidia video card that also contains a sound
> > decoder with an HDMI output jack. With this combination, AND
> > PulseAudio, I can get simultaneous sound (near the computer with
> > the MOBO sound output) and video on both the local monitor and the
> > TV from the NVidio card, AND sound on the TV from the NVidia card
> > also, via the hdmi connection. It may take some serious fiddling
> > around with the possibilities in PA, but it CAN be done.
>  To get sound simultaneously from your internal computer speakers and TV
>  (connected via HDMI): which tool(s) did you use? pavucontrol? paman?
>  paprefs?
>
>  Settings in ~/.asoundrc ? 
As I said, there is sound on the mother board. That comes out of the 
mobo on a "headphone" jack and goes to a Logitech system that has a box 
with an 8" speaker (for bass) and two
small speakers for the rest, and an audio amplifier that is in the big 
speaker box. The HDMI output comes out of the NVidia card on a miniature 
hdmi connector (You need an adapter, or a
special cable) and goes to the TV carrying video and audio, IF YOU HAVE 
PA CONFIGURED RIGHT. It will always give video, but audio depends on how 
well you finagle PA's many possible
configurations, which is the harrowing experience. It will help if you 
can hear the TV sound while you're messing with this. (Turn down the 
local sound and listen for the TV sound. Run something
like YOuTube with a long output, like a DVD repro, or something.)

--doug
>  Looks like I have two sound systems on my machine - if true it might be
>  possible to run them concurrently:
>  _______________________________
>  lspci -nnk |grep -A 7 -i vga
>  00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor
> Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0416] (rev 06)
>  	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
>  	Kernel driver in use: i915
>  	Kernel modules: i915
>  00:03.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD
> Audio Controller [8086:0c0c] (rev 06)
>  	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
>  	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
>  	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
>  --
>  01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Neptune
> XT [Radeon HD 8970M] [1002:6801]
>  	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
>  	Kernel driver in use: radeon
>  	Kernel modules: radeon
>  01:00.1 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cape Verde/Pitcairn
> HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 7700/7800 Series] [1002:aab0]
>  	Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:05aa]
>  	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
>  	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
>  _________________________
>
>  Specs regarding the lspci result from above:
>  Please note that on this machine there's one mini display port and one HDMI port:
>
>  AMD specs for the Radeon card say the DisplayPort 1.2 (mini
>  display port is broken on current Fedora¹ since quite some time) is
>  "Multi-Stream", while the specs on HDMI (works here) say nothing about
>  "Multi-Stream"
>  http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/oem/8900#
>
>  That's what Intel says about E3-1200 v4
>  on
>
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e3-1200v4-vo...
>  --------------------------------
>  "The processor also integrates dedicated a Mini HD audio controller to drive audio
> on
>  integrated digital display interfaces, such as HDMI* and DisplayPort*. The HD audio
>  controller on the PCH would continue to support down CODECs, and so on. The
>  processor Mini HD audio controller supports two High-Definition Audio streams
>  simultaneously on any of the three digital ports."
>  ------------------------------
>  The last sentence:
>  "The processor Mini HD audio controller supports two High-Definition
>  Audio streams simultaneously on any of the three digital ports."
>
>  Philip:
>  After I wrote, that I cannot use both speaker systems (internals
>  speakers from the computer and external ones from e.g. TV) at
>  the same time you mentioned ~/.asoundrc:
>
>  "That should be fixable with a properly configured .asoundrc file? -
>  might need an ALSA guru to do it though . ."
>
>  Might be difficult to find ALSA gurus ... :) - but I played
>  with .asoundrc years ago on a Macintosh powerp machine, with Debian on
>  it - with surprising results (and I'm far from being an audio
>  guru):
>  https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2009/08/msg00049.html
>
>  So thanks for pointing to .asoundrc: it hinted to me that ALSA is
>  still there - didn't realize that - I simply thought it was gone with
>  pulseaudio. And yes: I had not much of an idea of what PA actually is
>  until yesterday - I just knew that audio worked here ...
>
>  Sound setup tho' *might* become more complicated now with both
>  pulseaudio plus alsa being involved - not sure about it yet ..
>
>  Thanks again ..
>  Wolfgang
>
>  ¹ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845
>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/25/17 05:02, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
>  Doug, Philip, and Everyone
>
>  I started a new thread with the quotes below to make
>  sure to not hijack the thread where they were taken from ...
>
>  Short version:
>  The whole thing isn't that important - if in doubt, ignore it ... :)
>  The main reason I wrote this email is plain and simple
>  curiosity about whether it can be done, and how: namely to feed sound
>  on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to 
>  internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
>  those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system   

Try the google search "pulseaudio multiple outputs".  

Seems to be plenty of information available.

-- 
Fedora Users List - The place to go to speculate endlessly

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 07:32:53 +0800
Ed Greshko <ed.greshko(a)greshko.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 11/25/17 05:02, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
>  >[ ... ] namely to feed
>  > sound on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to 
>  > internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
>  > those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system    
>  
>  
>  Try the google search "pulseaudio multiple outputs".  
>  
>  Seems to be plenty of information available.
>   
Well, obviously: you're right. Shame on me, and thanks for helping some
at-least-at-times-blind guy cross the road ... ;)

Regards
Wolfgang

[Mike Wright]

On 11/24/2017 01:02 PM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
>  Doug, Philip, and Everyone
>  
>  I started a new thread with the quotes below to make
>  sure to not hijack the thread where they were taken from ...
>  
>  Short version:
>  The whole thing isn't that important - if in doubt, ignore it ... :)
>  The main reason I wrote this email is plain and simple
>  curiosity about whether it can be done, and how: namely to feed sound
>  on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to
>  internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
>  those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system 
I found this writeup extremely helpful.  It doesn't touch alsa at all 
but uses other higher level tools to accomplish what you're looking for, 
specifically: pavucontrol (pulseaudio volume control) and paprefs 
(pulseaudio preferences).

https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1240

Mike Wright

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 20:43:07 -0800
Mike Wright <nobody(a)nospam.hostisimo.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 11/24/2017 01:02 PM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
>  > Doug, Philip, and Everyone
>  > 
>  > I started a new thread with the quotes below to make
>  > sure to not hijack the thread where they were taken from ...
>  > 
>  > Short version:
>  > The whole thing isn't that important - if in doubt, ignore it ... :)
>  > The main reason I wrote this email is plain and simple
>  > curiosity about whether it can be done, and how: namely to feed
>  > sound on a Linux machine to two audio systems at the same time: to
>  > internal speakers on the computer and to external ones like, e.g.,
>  > those in a TV, via HDMI. And all this on Fedora 26 system  
>  
>  I found this writeup extremely helpful.  It doesn't touch alsa at all 
>  but uses other higher level tools to accomplish what you're looking
>  for, specifically: pavucontrol (pulseaudio volume control) and
>  paprefs (pulseaudio preferences).
>  
>  https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1240 
That page looks useful, tho' my hardware seems different: the basics
seem to be the same: like on the page above I have the 3.5 mm jack
available (IINM for the Intel Xeon audio system) plus the Radeon (?)
HDMI audio via one HDMI connector on the machine.

These pages might be fine, too:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/78174/play-sound-through-two-or-more-outp...
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/143865/how-to-enable-both-built-...

It looks like one really needs some understanding about audio soft- and
hardware setups to make sure that if wrappers like pulseaudio or
pipewire¹, the new one on F27 that might replace at least parts of PA,
break setups we're still able to fix them ... still learning .. :)

For a starter if one wants a quick idea of how extensive the whole
audio setup can become one might try a look into the files in
/usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/ 
 ... :)

Thanks Mike, and to Doug, too, who already
replied before.

Regards
Wolfgang

¹
https://fedoramagazine.org/improved-multimedia-support-pipewire-fedora-27/