Removing old kernels with yum?

[WipeOut]

Hi,

How do I remove old kernels with yum??

If I do a..
# yum list "kernel*"

I get..
Installed Packages
kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed

So if I try..
# yum remove kernel.i686
it wants to remove all of them..

I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it doesn't 
find anything to remove..

So how do I do it?

Thanks

[Paul Howarth]

WipeOut wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  How do I remove old kernels with yum??
>  
>  If I do a..
>  # yum list "kernel*"
>  
>  I get..
>  Installed Packages
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed
>  
>  So if I try..
>  # yum remove kernel.i686
>  it wants to remove all of them..
>  
>  I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it doesn't 
>  find anything to remove..
>  
>  So how do I do it? 
Use rpm instead of yum:

# rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...

Paul.

[Bob Chiodini]

On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 18:13 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  WipeOut wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > How do I remove old kernels with yum??
>  > 
>  > If I do a..
>  > # yum list "kernel*"
>  > 
>  > I get..
>  > Installed Packages
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  > kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  > kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  > kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed
>  > 
>  > So if I try..
>  > # yum remove kernel.i686
>  > it wants to remove all of them..
>  > 
>  > I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it doesn't 
>  > find anything to remove..
>  > 
>  > So how do I do it?
>  
>  Use rpm instead of yum:
>  
>  # rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...
>  
>  Paul.
>   
Yum can do it too, ala:

        yum remove kernel-2.6.9-1.678_FC3

You can also wildcard parts of the name like:

        yum remove kernel-smp-2.6.9-*

to get rid of all of the 2.6.9 SMP kernels.

Bob...

[WipeOut]

Bob Chiodini wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 18:13 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>   
>
> >WipeOut wrote:
> >    
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>How do I remove old kernels with yum??
> >>
> >>If I do a..
> >># yum list "kernel*"
> >>
> >>I get..
> >>Installed Packages
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
> >>kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
> >>kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
> >>kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed
> >>
> >>So if I try..
> >># yum remove kernel.i686
> >>it wants to remove all of them..
> >>
> >>I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it doesn't 
> >>find anything to remove..
> >>
> >>So how do I do it?
> >>      
> >>
> >Use rpm instead of yum:
> >
> ># rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...
> >
> >Paul.
> >
> >    
> >
>
> Yum can do it too, ala:
>
>         yum remove kernel-2.6.9-1.678_FC3
>
> You can also wildcard parts of the name like:
>
>         yum remove kernel-smp-2.6.9-*
>
> to get rid of all of the 2.6.9 SMP kernels.
>
> Bob...
>
>
>   
>  
I am sure I tried that but it didn't seem to work.. the rpm -e way 
worked fine..

Thanks..

[Temlakos]

WipeOut wrote:
>  Bob Chiodini wrote:
>  
> > On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 18:13 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
> >  
> >
> >> WipeOut wrote:
> >>   
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> How do I remove old kernels with yum??
> >>>
> >>> If I do a..
> >>> # yum list "kernel*"
> >>>
> >>> I get..
> >>> Installed Packages
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        
> >>> installed
> >>> kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      
> >>> installed
> >>>
> >>> So if I try..
> >>> # yum remove kernel.i686
> >>> it wants to remove all of them..
> >>>
> >>> I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it 
> >>> doesn't find anything to remove..
> >>>
> >>> So how do I do it?
> >>>     
> >>
> >> Use rpm instead of yum:
> >>
> >> # rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...
> >>
> >> Paul.
> >>
> >>   
> >
> >
> > Yum can do it too, ala:
> >
> >        yum remove kernel-2.6.9-1.678_FC3
> >
> > You can also wildcard parts of the name like:
> >
> >        yum remove kernel-smp-2.6.9-*
> >
> > to get rid of all of the 2.6.9 SMP kernels.
> >
> > Bob...
> >
> >
> >  
> >
>  I am sure I tried that but it didn't seem to work.. the rpm -e way 
>  worked fine..
>  
>  Thanks..
>   
I simply brought up Yum Extender, looked for all the kernels I had 
installed, and selected one to remove. (I say /one/ because I normally 
keep the five latest releases on my system, to make sure that I have a 
good one.)

Temlakos

[Truls Gulbrandsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul Howarth wrote:
| WipeOut wrote:
|
|> Hi,
|>
|> How do I remove old kernels with yum??
|>
|> If I do a..
|> # yum list "kernel*"
|>
|> I get..
|> Installed Packages
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
|> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
|> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
|> kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed
|>
|> So if I try..
|> # yum remove kernel.i686
|> it wants to remove all of them..
|>
|> I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it
|> doesn't find anything to remove..
|>
|> So how do I do it?
|
|
| Use rpm instead of yum:
|
| # rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...
|
| Paul.
|
I also think you could try " yum remove kernel.i686* "  and " yum remove
kernel-smp.i686*  "

Truls
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
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> n43ri92F7UotPmb9t3OSW5A=
> =DJN3
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Fritz Whittington]

On or about 2005-05-27 15:35, Truls Gulbrandsen whipped out a trusty #2 
pencil and scribbled:

>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  Paul Howarth wrote:
>  | WipeOut wrote:
>  |
>  |> Hi,
>  |>
>  |> How do I remove old kernels with yum??
>  |>
>  |> If I do a..
>  |> # yum list "kernel*"
>  |>
>  |> I get..
>  |> Installed Packages
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            
>  installed
>  |> kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        
>  installed
>  |> kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      
>  installed
>  |>
>  |> So if I try..
>  |> # yum remove kernel.i686
>  |> it wants to remove all of them..
>  |>
>  |> I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it
>  |> doesn't find anything to remove..
>  |>
>  |> So how do I do it?
>  |
>  |
>  | Use rpm instead of yum:
>  |
>  | # rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ...
>  |
>  | Paul.
>  |
>  I also think you could try " yum remove kernel.i686* "  and " yum remove
>  kernel-smp.i686*  "
>
>  Truls 
OTOH, you *will* get much better results if you put a \ in front of the 
asterisks. 

-- 
Fritz Whittington
US terrorist threat warning system: Green (low) the year has magically turned back to
2000; Blue (guarded) be careful; Yellow (elevated) be anxious; Orange (high) something
evil this way comes; and Red (severe) how well do you really know your spouse?

[John Summerfield]

Paul Howarth wrote:

> >
> > I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it 
> > doesn't find anything to remove..
> >
> > So how do I do it?
>  
>  
>  Use rpm instead of yum:
>  
>  # rpm -e kernel-2.6.9-1.667 kernel-smp-2.6.9-1.667 ... 
Something like
rpm --erase $(rpm -qa kernel-2.6.9\* kernel-smp-2.6.9\*)


-- 

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)computerdatasafe.com.au  Z1aaaaaaa(a)computerdatasafe.com.au
Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/

[Jeff Vian]

On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 18:11 +0100, WipeOut wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  How do I remove old kernels with yum??
>  
>  If I do a..
>  # yum list "kernel*"
>   
instead do an "rpm -qa kernel"

[jeff@eye_gore seti]$ rpm -qa kernel
kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
kernel-2.6.11-1.14_FC3
kernel-2.6.11-1.27_FC3

then do "rpm -e <kernel version>" with the one you are removing from
above.

[jeff@eye_gore seti]$ sudo rpm -e kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
Password:
[jeff@eye_gore seti]$ rpm -qa kernel
kernel-2.6.11-1.14_FC3
kernel-2.6.11-1.27_FC3


As you can see, it works perfectly.


>  I get..
>  Installed Packages
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  kernel.i686                              2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.667            installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.760_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.27_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.737_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.10-1.741_FC3       installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.11-1.14_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.678_FC3        installed
>  kernel-smp.i686                          2.6.9-1.681_FC3        installed
>  kernel-utils.i386                        1:2.4-13.1.49_FC3      installed
>  
>  So if I try..
>  # yum remove kernel.i686
>  it wants to remove all of them..
>  
>  I have tried specifying the version a couple of ways but then it doesn't 
>  find anything to remove..
>  
>  So how do I do it?
>  
>  Thanks
>

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

I have been using "rpm -qa|grep kernel" and "rpm -e $kernel" for a
while
but I wonder if yum can be configured to treat kernels as normal
packages, e.g. "installonlypkgs=" in yum.conf (which does not work).

Tom

-- 
  T h o m a s   Z e h e t b a u e r   ( TZ251 )
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[Paul Howarth]

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 03:57 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  I have been using "rpm -qa|grep kernel" and "rpm -e
> $kernel" for a while
>  but I wonder if yum can be configured to treat kernels as normal
>  packages, e.g. "installonlypkgs=" in yum.conf (which does not work). 
I believe this is actually hard-coded in yum.

One of the consequences of allowing a kernel to be upgraded instead of
installed would be that the currently-running kernel plus all of its
modules would be deleted when the new kernel was added. So any operation
that needed to load a module (e.g. starting ppp if the ppp modules
weren't already loaded) would fail. There might be more significant
issues too (has anyone tried removing their currently-running kernel to
see what happens? not something I intend to try!).

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul Howarth wrote:
> (has anyone tried removing their currently-running kernel to
>  see what happens? not something I intend to try!). 
A few years back when I first started with RH8, I actually did (by
mistake though). As far as I remember, there were no immediate
consequences .. but of course .. after a reboot .. there was nothing to
boot with :D .. so I grabbed the installation CD, and installed only the
kernel package .. nice thing about the old anaconda was that you could
select to install actual individual packages ..

>  
>  Paul. 
- -M
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> =6ROi
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[Thomas Zehetbauer]

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 11:27 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  One of the consequences of allowing a kernel to be upgraded instead
> of
>  installed would be that the currently-running kernel plus all of its
>  modules would be deleted when the new kernel was added. So any operation
>  that needed to load a module (e.g. starting ppp if the ppp modules
>  weren't already loaded) would fail. There might be more significant
>  issues too (has anyone tried removing their currently-running kernel to
>  see what happens? not something I intend to try!). 
So I guess the pre-uninstall script should prevent the currently running
kernel from being removed. I am just getting tired of accumulating old
kernel even though I only use stock kernels and have them only to
satisfy RPM dependencies.

Tom

-- 
  T h o m a s   Z e h e t b a u e r   ( TZ251 )
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Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.

[Paul Howarth]

On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 03:25 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 11:27 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  > One of the consequences of allowing a kernel to be upgraded instead of
>  > installed would be that the currently-running kernel plus all of its
>  > modules would be deleted when the new kernel was added. So any operation
>  > that needed to load a module (e.g. starting ppp if the ppp modules
>  > weren't already loaded) would fail. There might be more significant
>  > issues too (has anyone tried removing their currently-running kernel to
>  > see what happens? not something I intend to try!).
>  
>  So I guess the pre-uninstall script should prevent the currently running
>  kernel from being removed. I am just getting tired of accumulating old
>  kernel even though I only use stock kernels and have them only to
>  satisfy RPM dependencies. 
If you've just got a stock kernel in to satisfy dependencies and you
actually run a home-built custom kernel, can't you just add
"exclude=kernel" to your yum.conf so that you don't get any kernel
updates? That way you won't need to worry about removing them.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 17:40 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  If you've just got a stock kernel in to satisfy dependencies and
> you
>  actually run a home-built custom kernel, can't you just add
>  "exclude=kernel" to your yum.conf so that you don't get any kernel
>  updates? That way you won't need to worry about removing them. 
That's the second best choice because it will cause missing dependency
errors from time to time.

Tom

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There's too much blood in my caffeine system.

[Paul Howarth]

On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 22:54 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 17:40 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  > If you've just got a stock kernel in to satisfy dependencies and you
>  > actually run a home-built custom kernel, can't you just add
>  > "exclude=kernel" to your yum.conf so that you don't get any kernel
>  > updates? That way you won't need to worry about removing them.
>  
>  That's the second best choice because it will cause missing dependency
>  errors from time to time. 
OK then, now about building your own kernels as RPMs and installing them
using rpm rather than yum, so you'll get the right kernel versions into
the RPM database to satisfy dependencies, and only get kernel updates
when you do them?

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[John Summerfield]

Paul Howarth wrote:
>  On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 03:57 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  
> >I have been using "rpm -qa|grep kernel" and "rpm -e $kernel" for a
> while
> >but I wonder if yum can be configured to treat kernels as normal
> >packages, e.g. "installonlypkgs=" in yum.conf (which does not work).
>  
>  
>  I believe this is actually hard-coded in yum.
>  
>  One of the consequences of allowing a kernel to be upgraded instead of
>  installed would be that the currently-running kernel plus all of its
>  modules would be deleted when the new kernel was added. So any operation
>  that needed to load a module (e.g. starting ppp if the ppp modules
>  weren't already loaded) would fail. There might be more significant
>  issues too (has anyone tried removing their currently-running kernel to
>  see what happens? not something I intend to try!). 
I've done it accidentally (on Debian I think). No great drama as all 
needed modules were loaded. However, I did reinstall the kernel, JIC:-)




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John

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