I recently updated the BIOS on a new Dell XPS 16 running Fedora 40. Prior to the update everything was working fine. After the update, grub displays the boot menu and indicates it is booting the default entry, then...nothing.
I have performed the following tests and/or remedial actions: - attempted to downgrade the BIOS - the updated version does not allow downgrading - no change if secure boot is enabled or disabled - confirmed the boot disk (NVMe) is in AHCI mode (not RAID) - tried disabling extra C-states in BIOS - no change - BIOS has self-tests, they all pass - booting older kernels including the rescue kernel do not change the behavior (other than the grub output as to which kernel is being booted) - booting Ventoy works and lets me select other images to boot - booting a f40 netinstall ISO(via Ventoy) (the same one used to instal Fedora 40 on this laptop initially) gets as far as the "install/test/rescue" menu, but otherwise has the same boot failure - booting a f41 netinstall ISO (via Ventoy) has the same behavior as the f40 netinstall ISO - booting clonezilla (via Ventoy) gives multiple messages about trying to read or write outside of the partition - booting a Raspberry Pi x86 ISO (basically a live image) (via Ventoy) displays several boot messages before the system hangs - booting a NetBSD ISO (via Ventoy) displays several boot messages before eventually displaying a "privileged instruction fault" trap and dropping into a debugger
Out of all of the above, the only thing that made me go "hmm" was the partition errors from clonezilla, so I did a test where I disabled the NVMe disk and attempted to boot off of a known, good Fedora install on a USB drive. This also failed.
My theories and where they break down: - CPU issue: everything boots and works, up to a point, and the BIOS self-test passes. - RAM issue: everything boots and works, up to a point, and the BIOS self-test passes. - NVMe issue: grub boots, and if I disable the NVMe drive, the boot failures persist anyway.
Any suggestions?
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 20:52 Go Canes letsgonhlcanes0@gmail.com wrote:
I have performed the following tests and/or remedial actions:
- attempted to downgrade the BIOS - the updated version does not allow
downgrading
- no change if secure boot is enabled or disabled
- confirmed the boot disk (NVMe) is in AHCI mode (not RAID)
- tried disabling extra C-states in BIOS - no change
- BIOS has self-tests, they all pass
- booting older kernels including the rescue kernel do not change the
behavior (other than the grub output as to which kernel is being booted)
I assume it is an UEFI (some vendors still call that BIOS).
Can you reset it to the default settings?
Does it support CSM?
If you enable that, can you boot a Live system in this mode? You can't boot an EFI-installed OS if the CSM-only mode is active, FYI.
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 1:51 AM Marco Moock mm@dorfdsl.de wrote:
I assume it is an UEFI (some vendors still call that BIOS).
Yes, UEFI which Dell still calls BIOS
Can you reset it to the default settings?
While I didn't list it, this has been tried. More than once.
Does it support CSM?
I can't find anything called "CSM". If that refers to non-UEFI mode, no it is UEFI-only.
There is a "SMM" setting, but it is disabled, and the text says enabling it can cause problems for some programs, etc.
Thank you for the suggestions!
On Thu, 2025-04-10 at 20:52 -0400, Go Canes wrote:
- booting a f40 netinstall ISO(via Ventoy) (the same one used to
instal Fedora 40 on this laptop initially) gets as far as the "install/test/rescue" menu, but otherwise has the same boot failure
When I installed Fedora 40 (I think, it's 40), I couldn't get the usual installation ISOs to work. I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method. I installed a non-graphical system, afterwards installing a graphical desktop.
Though the rest of your problems suggest it's the hardware. You might try replacing the CMOS battery. If it's going flat various motherboards go haywire. Many don't alternatively power the chips from its main power supply when the PC is running, the battery is always supplying something.
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:42 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
When I installed Fedora 40 (I think, it's 40), I couldn't get the usual installation ISOs to work. I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method. I installed a non-graphical system, afterwards installing a graphical desktop.
I normally use the server netinstall ISO, as it avoids installing all the packages only to replace them immediately with the first "dnf update".
F40 was originally installed and I used the laptop for a month or two. No major issues until doing the BIOS update.
Though the rest of your problems suggest it's the hardware. You might try replacing the CMOS battery. If it's going flat various motherboards go haywire.
All the testing I have done is suggesting the hardware is OK. Laptop is brand new, and it has no problem keeping BIOS settings, date/time, etc., so I doubt the CMOS battery is going flat.
Thank you for the suggestions!
A thought that occurs to me....
The various Fedora boot failures are occurring after grub, but before any kernel output. Failure loading initrd image? So maybe something to do with RAM that the BIOS testing isn't detecting, or something to do with decompressing the image? Either way, why would a BIOS update cause/expose the issue?
On 4/11/25 6:45 PM, Go Canes wrote:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:42 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
When I installed Fedora 40 (I think, it's 40), I couldn't get the usual installation ISOs to work. I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method. I installed a non-graphical system, afterwards installing a graphical desktop.
I normally use the server netinstall ISO, as it avoids installing all the packages only to replace them immediately with the first "dnf update".
Use the "everything" installer. That installs directly from the internet so you get the latest packages and you can pick what you want to install.
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 11:16 PM Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
On 4/11/25 6:45 PM, Go Canes wrote:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:42 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
When I installed Fedora 40 (I think, it's 40), I couldn't get the usual installation ISOs to work. I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method. I installed a non-graphical system, afterwards installing a graphical desktop.
I normally use the server netinstall ISO, as it avoids installing all the packages only to replace them immediately with the first "dnf update".
Use the "everything" installer. That installs directly from the internet so you get the latest packages and you can pick what you want to install.
I'm not sure if you were replying to me or Tim, but as quoted above "I normally use the server netinstall ISO" which "installs directly from the internet so you get the latest packages and you can pick what you want to install."
On 4/12/25 4:46 AM, Go Canes wrote:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 11:16 PM Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
On 4/11/25 6:45 PM, Go Canes wrote:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:42 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
When I installed Fedora 40 (I think, it's 40), I couldn't get the usual installation ISOs to work. I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method. I installed a non-graphical system, afterwards installing a graphical desktop.
I normally use the server netinstall ISO, as it avoids installing all the packages only to replace them immediately with the first "dnf update".
Use the "everything" installer. That installs directly from the internet so you get the latest packages and you can pick what you want to install.
I'm not sure if you were replying to me or Tim, but as quoted above "I normally use the server netinstall ISO" which "installs directly from the internet so you get the latest packages and you can pick what you want to install."
I missed that you were using the netinstall version of the server install. I didn't realize there was one. The everything install lets you install the graphical desktop as well. Also, at least the filesystem defaults are different with the server install. I don't know what else.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 6:16 PM Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
I missed that you were using the netinstall version of the server install. I didn't realize there was one. The everything install lets you install the graphical desktop as well. Also, at least the filesystem defaults are different with the server install. I don't know what else.
server netinstall lets me install the desktop and other software of my choice and defaults to using lvm and xfs, all of which are what I want/prefer. I think in my case the main differences vs the workstation install are KDE vs Gnome, and lvm/xfs vs btrfs. As far as I am aware - and I could easily be wrong - when I first started using the server netinstall many Fedora versions ago it *was* the only netinstall option.
On 4/12/25 3:27 PM, Go Canes wrote:
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 6:16 PM Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
I missed that you were using the netinstall version of the server install. I didn't realize there was one. The everything install lets you install the graphical desktop as well. Also, at least the filesystem defaults are different with the server install. I don't know what else.
server netinstall lets me install the desktop and other software of my choice and defaults to using lvm and xfs, all of which are what I want/prefer. I think in my case the main differences vs the workstation install are KDE vs Gnome, and lvm/xfs vs btrfs. As far as I am aware - and I could easily be wrong - when I first started using the server netinstall many Fedora versions ago it *was* the only netinstall option.
No, there's always been the everything netinstall. That's what I used until recently, particularly for PXE installs.
You mentioned that you installed the non-graphical system, then added the desktop later. That's why I thought the server one didn't let you add desktops during install.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 6:32 PM Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
You mentioned that you installed the non-graphical system, then added the desktop later. That's why I thought the server one didn't let you add desktops during install.
I installed the desktop as part of the Fedora install. Sorry if I led you to believe otherwise!
On Sat, 2025-04-12 at 15:32 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
You mentioned that you installed the non-graphical system, then added the desktop later. That's why I thought the server one didn't let you add desktops during install.
I mentioned that. I don't recall if it were a case of blind install and add later, or if the install gave you a chance to pick things to add before it started.
Out of the various spins I tried, it was the only one that would actually boot. I don't know what aspect of booting was different from that to the other spins (bootloader program, the coding of the boot menu options, whatever). So even the idea of running a "live disc" was out of the question.
And I only ever use very few of the things that come with the Mate/Gnome/whatever installs, anyway. It's no skin off my nose to add about four packages post-install.
On 11 Apr 2025, at 14:41, Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I had to use the server spin, I believe it used a different bootloading method.
All my server installs use the exact same boot mechanism as my desktops. e.g. UEFI shim -> grub -> kernel -> happy user
Barry
On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 9:52 PM Go Canes letsgonhlcanes0@gmail.com wrote:
I recently updated the BIOS on a new Dell XPS 16 running Fedora 40. Prior to the update everything was working fine. After the update, grub displays the boot menu and indicates it is booting the default entry, then...nothing.
My Dell systems did something similar. On this one, the EFI Fedora entry (Boot0001) had been replaced with what is now (after renaming) Boot0003 below. A recent BIOS update made Boot0003 the default, but I got the system to boot by manually entering the original Boot0001. Now:
% efibootmgr BootCurrent: 0003 Timeout: 0 seconds BootOrder: 0003,0002,0001 Boot0001* Fedora HD(1,GPT,a9b8f5c8-95d9-4899-a355-e9fbeb547be8,0x800,0xfa000)/\EFI\fedora\shimx64.efi Boot0002* Linux Firmware Updater HD(1,GPT,a9b8f5c8-95d9-4899-a355-e9fbeb547be8,0x800,0xfa000)/\EFI\fedora\fwupdx64.efi Boot0003* Fedora2 PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x1d,0x0)/Pci(0x0,0x0)/NVMe(0x1,00-25-38-5A-01-9E-5A-56)/HD(1,GPT,a9b8f5c8-95d9-4899-a355-e9fbeb547be8,0x800,0xfa000)/\EFI\fedora\shimx64.efi
You should be able to view and edit the entries in the Dell UEFI screen.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 8:45 AM George N. White III gnwiii@gmail.com wrote:
My Dell systems did something similar. On this one, the EFI Fedora entry (Boot0001) had been replaced with what is now (after renaming) Boot0003 below. A recent BIOS update made Boot0003 the default, but I got the system to boot by manually entering the original Boot0001.
I will double-check, but I don't think this would affect choosing the boot using the F12 menu to boot off of USB, etc. Also, I think the EFI entry points to grub, and we *are* booting grub, just nothing after grub.
Thank you for the suggestion!
On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 8:52 PM Go Canes letsgonhlcanes0@gmail.com wrote:
I recently updated the BIOS on a new Dell XPS 16 running Fedora 40. Prior to the update everything was working fine. After the update, grub displays the boot menu and indicates it is booting the default entry, then...nothing.
A recent BIOS update (1.14.2) has resolved the issue.
-
Barry Scott -
George N. White III -
Go Canes -
Marco Moock -
Samuel Sieb -
Tim