Fresh install Fedora 41. Bootloader Problem. Camina Shell/Barry Scott/Samual Sieb/Jeffrey Walton/Tim. On Dell Inspiron 3721.

[Ger van Dijck]

Hay all of You,

Thanks for help and answering. The problem is simple . The fresh install 
of Fedora 41 no problem.  The menu of the booatloader is the problem and 
I do understand  this is kwown. (See mail Camina Shell)

After the succesfull fresh install  I get the bootmenu :  First Kernel 
install version , so no second Kernel update,rescue mode and Windows 
choice possibility.  So far so good.

When rebooting the system no bootmenu :  Just Fedora is booted no choice 
menu  ; That is all. See below the BIOS  settings on  this machine.

Boot mode is set to : UEFI with Legacy OPROM ; Secure boot : OFF

Legacy Boot :

Hard drive

CD/DVD/CD-RW Drive

Network

UEFI Boot :

Windows Boot Manager (CT1000BX500SSDI)

Fedora Boot (CT1000BX500SSDI)

You can understand  the user can open the BIOS  and  made the choise 
Windows  Boot or Fedora Boot but this a dangerous procedure and not very 
elegant.

So the final question is : Where is  GRUB ?

And now , how farther ?

Ger van Dijck.

[Barry]

> On 12 Mar 2025, at 19:02, Ger van Dijck  wrote:
>
> So the final question is : Where is  GRUB ?

By default I believe grub menu is hidden.
You can edit grub env config to always show the menu.

If hold down SHIFT key while booting the grub menu should appear.

Barry

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 12 Mar 2025 at 20:01, Ger van Dijck wrote:

Date sent:      	Wed, 12 Mar 2025 20:01:47 +0100
To:             	[e-mail]
From:           	Ger van Dijck 
Subject:        	Fresh install Fedora 41. Bootloader Problem. 
Camina Shell/Barry
    Scott/Samual Sieb/Jeffrey Walton/Tim. On Dell 
Inspiron 3721.
Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora users 
> Hay all of You,
>
> Thanks for help and answering. The problem is simple . The fresh install 
> of Fedora 41 no problem.  The menu of the booatloader is the problem and 
> I do understand  this is kwown. (See mail Camina Shell)
>
> After the succesfull fresh install  I get the bootmenu :  First Kernel 
> install version , so no second Kernel update,rescue mode and Windows 
> choice possibility.  So far so good.
>
> When rebooting the system no bootmenu :  Just Fedora is booted no choice 
> menu  ; That is all. See below the BIOS  settings on  this machine.
>
> Boot mode is set to : UEFI with Legacy OPROM ; Secure boot : OFF
>
> Legacy Boot :
>
> Hard drive
>
> CD/DVD/CD-RW Drive
>
> Network
>
> UEFI Boot :
>
> Windows Boot Manager (CT1000BX500SSDI)
>
> Fedora Boot (CT1000BX500SSDI)
>
> You can understand  the user can open the BIOS  and  made the choise 
> Windows  Boot or Fedora Boot but this a dangerous procedure and not very 
> elegant.
>
> So the final question is : Where is  GRUB ?
>
> And now , how farther ?

A couple things that might be issue and possible fix.
The newer boot generally just boots to the default boot kernel 
without showing the grub menu. Generally pressing the ESC key 
after boot starts will have it show the grub boot menu.

Second, the latest released grub2 has an issue with windows ntfs 
regular partitions, and doesn't create grub menu entries. Works 
with UEFI windows thou.

There is an updated version of grub2 in updates-testing repo, and 
atleast on my two notebooks that have windows 7, the grub2 in 
updates-testing, did get the boot menu to have the windows 7 boot 
option.

Hope that might help.
> Ger van Dijck.
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
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+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor (Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Stephen Morris]

On 13/3/25 06:01, Ger van Dijck wrote:
> Hay all of You,
>
> Thanks for help and answering. The problem is simple . The fresh 
> install of Fedora 41 no problem.  The menu of the booatloader is the 
> problem and I do understand  this is kwown. (See mail Camina Shell)
>
> After the succesfull fresh install  I get the bootmenu :  First Kernel 
> install version , so no second Kernel update,rescue mode and Windows 
> choice possibility.  So far so good.
>
> When rebooting the system no bootmenu :  Just Fedora is booted no 
> choice menu  ; That is all. See below the BIOS  settings on  this 
> machine.
>
> Boot mode is set to : UEFI with Legacy OPROM ; Secure boot : OFF
>
> Legacy Boot :
>
> Hard drive
>
> CD/DVD/CD-RW Drive
>
> Network
>
> UEFI Boot :
>
> Windows Boot Manager (CT1000BX500SSDI)
>
> Fedora Boot (CT1000BX500SSDI)
>
> You can understand  the user can open the BIOS  and  made the choise 
> Windows  Boot or Fedora Boot but this a dangerous procedure and not 
> very elegant.
>
> So the final question is : Where is  GRUB ?
>
> And now , how farther ?

In /etc/default/grub is the following line, that line causes grub to 
boot off, I think, the first entry in the grub menus and to not show the 
menus at all. If you change the entry to "false" instead of "true" and 
run grub2-mkconfig to get it to take effect without waiting for the next 
kernel update the menus will be displayed. You may want to change the 
GRUB_TIMEOUT entry to specify a time that is long enough to allow the 
menus to remain displayed so that you can make a selection if you want to.

GRUB_ENABLE_BLSCFG=true

regards,
Steve
> Ger van Dijck.

[Samuel Sieb]

On 3/12/25 2:20 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> In /etc/default/grub is the following line, that line causes grub to 
> boot off, I think, the first entry in the grub menus and to not show the 
> menus at all. If you change the entry to "false" instead of "true" and 
> run grub2-mkconfig to get it to take effect without waiting for the next 
> kernel update the menus will be displayed. You may want to change the 
> GRUB_TIMEOUT entry to specify a time that is long enough to allow the 
> menus to remain displayed so that you can make a selection if you want to.
>
> GRUB_ENABLE_BLSCFG=true

No, that's not it.  Don't change that setting.
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-disable-grub2-menu-auto-hide/7...

[Samuel Sieb]

On 3/12/25 2:11 PM, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:
> Second, the latest released grub2 has an issue with windows ntfs
> regular partitions, and doesn't create grub menu entries. Works
> with UEFI windows thou.
>
> There is an updated version of grub2 in updates-testing repo, and
> atleast on my two notebooks that have windows 7, the grub2 in
> updates-testing, did get the boot menu to have the windows 7 boot
> option.

Even if you get it to show on the menu, recent versions of windows will 
not successfully boot from grub.

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 13 Mar 2025 at 0:17, Samuel Sieb wrote:

Date sent:      	Thu, 13 Mar 2025 00:17:44 -0700
Subject:        	Re: Fresh install Fedora 41. Bootloader Problem. 
Camina Shell/Barry
    Scott/Samual Sieb/Jeffrey Walton/Tim. On Dell 
Inspiron 3721
To:             	[e-mail]
From:           	Samuel Sieb 
Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora users 
> On 3/12/25 2:11 PM, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:
> > Second, the latest released grub2 has an issue with windows ntfs
> > regular partitions, and doesn't create grub menu entries. Works
> > with UEFI windows thou.
> >
> > There is an updated version of grub2 in updates-testing repo, and
> > atleast on my two notebooks that have windows 7, the grub2 in
> > updates-testing, did get the boot menu to have the windows 7 boot
> > option.
>
> Even if you get it to show on the menu, recent versions of windows will 
> not successfully boot from grub.

Don't know about recent version of windows. I only have machines 
with Fedora 41 only, and two notebooks with Fedora 41 and 
Windows 7. They boot the windows 7 fine using both the 42_custom 
I created or now with the newest grub2 updates.

Don't have any machines with newer than windows 7. Do have two 
beelink mini machines, but they just have windows 11.

So, perhaps you have more info than I do.
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor (Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Barry]

> On 13 Mar 2025, at 07:18, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>
> Even if you get it to show on the menu, recent versions of windows will not successfully boot from grub.

True if you have bitlocker enabled in windows.
But if you are not using bitlocker then grub can boot windows.
I do this with my dual boot Windows 11 and Fedora system.

Barry

[Stephen Morris]

On 13/3/25 19:11, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2025 at 0:17, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>
> Date sent:      	Thu, 13 Mar 2025 00:17:44 -0700
> Subject:        	Re: Fresh install Fedora 41. Bootloader Problem.
> Camina Shell/Barry
>    Scott/Samual Sieb/Jeffrey Walton/Tim. On Dell
> Inspiron 3721
> To:             	[e-mail]
> From:           	Samuel Sieb 
> Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora users
> > On 3/12/25 2:11 PM, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:
> > > Second, the latest released grub2 has an issue with windows ntfs
> > > regular partitions, and doesn't create grub menu entries. Works
> > > with UEFI windows thou.
> > >
> > > There is an updated version of grub2 in updates-testing repo, and
> > > atleast on my two notebooks that have windows 7, the grub2 in
> > > updates-testing, did get the boot menu to have the windows 7 boot
> > > option.
> >
> > Even if you get it to show on the menu, recent versions of windows will
> > not successfully boot from grub.
>
> Don't know about recent version of windows. I only have machines
> with Fedora 41 only, and two notebooks with Fedora 41 and
> Windows 7. They boot the windows 7 fine using both the 42_custom
> I created or now with the newest grub2 updates.
>
> Don't have any machines with newer than windows 7. Do have two
> beelink mini machines, but they just have windows 11.
>
> So, perhaps you have more info than I do.

I've had no issues booting Windows 7 through Windows 11 from grub menus 
via both Bios installs and UEFI installs on my home pc, but I have never 
installed bitlocker.

regards,
Steve
> > -- 
> > _______________________________________________
> > users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> > Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
> +------------------------------------------------------------+
>   Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor (Retired)
>   mailto:[e-mail]
>   mailto:[e-mail]
>   mailto:[e-mail]
>   Guam - Where America's Day Begins
>   G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer
>   http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
> +------------------------------------------------------------+

[Stephen Morris]

On 13/3/25 18:16, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 3/12/25 2:20 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> > In /etc/default/grub is the following line, that line causes grub to 
> > boot off, I think, the first entry in the grub menus and to not show 
> > the menus at all. If you change the entry to "false" instead of 
> > "true" and run grub2-mkconfig to get it to take effect without 
> > waiting for the next kernel update the menus will be displayed. You 
> > may want to change the GRUB_TIMEOUT entry to specify a time that is 
> > long enough to allow the menus to remain displayed so that you can 
> > make a selection if you want to.
> >
> > GRUB_ENABLE_BLSCFG=true
>
> No, that's not it.  Don't change that setting.
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-disable-grub2-menu-auto-hide/7...

Sorry Samuel, you are right I was confusing the two. I think I set the 
autohide to off manually a long time ago, but I also have the above grub 
parameter set to false for another reason, which I've forgotten what it was.

regards,
Steve