KMix volume sliders

[Ashley M. Kirchner]

    I have an Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 in my system running FC5.  
In KMix, everything seems to fall under the PCM (and Master) volume 
sliders.  How can I fix it so that when I'm playing MIDI files it routes 
through the correct volume slider (whichever that might be) and when I'm 
playing MP3, it goes through the PCM one?

    Looking at all the KMix channels available to me, I have:

Wave Center, Wave LFE, Wave Surround,    Master, Headphone, Bass, Treble 
(which incidentally don't do anything either one), 3D Control Sigmatel - 
Depth, PCM, Center, LFE, PC Speaker, and AC97.  Under the Input tab 
there's a whole slew of sliders, and under Switches tab there are a few 
more.

    Everything seems to get routed through the PCM channel and I can 
control volume using that slider and the Master volume slider.  When I 
used this card under WinXP, I was able to get MIDI through the MIDI 
channel (or Synth), MP3/Wave through a separate one, and the PC speaker 
through a different one, so I could individually control each one.  Is 
this possible under unix?

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Saturday 29 July 2006 23:51, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>      I have an Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 in my system running
> FC5. 
[snip]
>  Wave Center, Wave LFE, Wave Surround,    Master, Headphone, Bass,
> Treble
>  (which incidentally don't do anything either one), 3D Control Sigmatel -
>  Depth, PCM, Center, LFE, PC Speaker, and AC97.  Under the Input tab
>  there's a whole slew of sliders, and under Switches tab there are a few
>  more. 
I second this. What are all these sliders for? Any decent docs about the 
function of each? (here 'decent' means that I want more detail then "3D 
Control Sigmatel - Depth slider is used for controlling the depth of the 3D 
Sigmatel"...) How to make them all work? Why is the PCM slider not linear? 
(the volume is practically off from bottom to approx. 3/4 of the slider, then 
increases exponentially...)

And also, I think I counted more sliders in alsamixer then in kmix (but don't 
hold my word for it). Why is that? And is the number of sliders in alsamixer 
varying sometimes or is it just me (again... :-) ...)?

Best regards, :-)
Marko

[Tim]

On Sun, 2006-07-30 at 23:23 +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>  Why is the PCM slider not linear? (the volume is practically off
> from
>  bottom to approx. 3/4 of the slider, then increases exponentially...) 
You wouldn't actually want a linear volume control, you'd start to turn
the control, then the sound would jump out at you as it suddenly gets
very loud.  A logarithm *is* a desirable trait (our hearing isn't
linear), though some seem to have peculiar characteristics.

-- 
(Currently running FC4, occasionally trying FC5.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Monday 31 July 2006 04:41, Tim wrote:
>  On Sun, 2006-07-30 at 23:23 +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>  > Why is the PCM slider not linear? (the volume is practically off from
>  > bottom to approx. 3/4 of the slider, then increases exponentially...)
>
>  You wouldn't actually want a linear volume control, you'd start to turn
>  the control, then the sound would jump out at you as it suddenly gets
>  very loud.  A logarithm *is* a desirable trait (our hearing isn't
>  linear), though some seem to have peculiar characteristics. 
I agree on that, but what I would like is the "perceptually linear" behavior, 
like with all other sliders. The 'Wave surround' or 'wave center', for 
example, behave just as I expect, but PCM does not.

Best regards, :-)
Marko

[Fedora] Re: KMix volume sliders

[Ashley M. Kirchner]

Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>  I agree on that, but what I would like is the "perceptually
> linear" behavior, 
>  like with all other sliders. The 'Wave surround' or 'wave center', for 
>  example, behave just as I expect, but PCM does not.
>     
    By the way, I also have to concur with Marko's observation with the 
PCM slider...it starts of pretty dead, you reach 1/4 of the way in (or 
3/4 depending on how you're looking at it) and suddenly the sound jumps 
up...  Something's not right, it only happens with the PCM too.

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[e-mail]>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.

[Tim]

Tim:
> > You wouldn't actually want a linear volume control, you'd
> start to turn
> > the control, then the sound would jump out at you as it suddenly gets
> > very loud.  A logarithm *is* a desirable trait (our hearing isn't
> > linear), though some seem to have peculiar characteristics. 
Marko Vojinovic:
>  I agree on that, but what I would like is the "perceptually
> linear"
>  behavior, like with all other sliders. The 'Wave surround' or 'wave
>  center', for example, behave just as I expect, but PCM does not. 
I can't say that I've noticed differences between sources (other than
some being just too damn quiet overall), though I do believe you.  My
sound card is rather simple, without a lot of options.  I don't have
many to compare against each other.  

I wonder whether you get different responses whether you're using
software or hardware mixing?  If you have a sound card that can do its
own mixing, its response to controls might be different (automatically
doing a log response to a linear control change, or expecting that
controls give a log control signal).  More so if some things the volume
sliders control are done in hardware, the rest in software.

-- 
(Currently running FC4, in case that's important to the thread)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Fedora] KMix volume sliders

[Ashley M. Kirchner]

    I'm revisiting this because there didn't seem to have been any 
suggestions as to a possible fix.  Marko seconded the multitude of 
sliders and commented on the linear versus exponential volume slider, 
while Tim pointed out that you really do want a logarithmic slider, not 
linear.  But, we still don't have a solution for my initial problem 
posted below.  And I'd also like to add something else I noticed today:  
SB Live! has two speaker outputs, labeled channel 1 and 2.   Under XP, I 
can get both channels to work simultaneously (and thus allowing me to 
use 2 sets of speakers.)  But no amount of slider configuration or 
turning on or off of the little red and green indicators would output 
sound on the second channel - everything's on the first one.  So...is 
that another undocumented "feature"?  Something missing?

----- begin original message -----

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>     I have an Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 in my system running FC5.  
>  In KMix, everything seems to fall under the PCM (and Master) volume 
>  sliders.  How can I fix it so that when I'm playing MIDI files it 
>  routes through the correct volume slider (whichever that might be) and 
>  when I'm playing MP3, it goes through the PCM one?
>
>     Looking at all the KMix channels available to me, I have:
>
>  Wave Center, Wave LFE, Wave Surround,    Master, Headphone, Bass, 
>  Treble (which incidentally don't do anything either one - *update:* 
>  these works now), 3D Control Sigmatel - Depth, PCM, Center, LFE, PC 
>  Speaker, and AC97.  Under the Input tab there's a whole slew of 
>  sliders, and under Switches tab there are a few more.
>
>     Everything seems to get routed through the PCM channel and I can 
>  control volume using that slider and the Master volume slider.  When I 
>  used this card under WinXP, I was able to get MIDI through the MIDI 
>  channel (or Synth), MP3/Wave through a separate one, and the PC 
>  speaker through a different one, so I could individually control each 
>  one.  Is this possible under unix?
>  

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[e-mail]>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.