Fedora 20 on Dell Precision M3850

[Ranjan Maitra]

Hi,

According to FedEx, my new machine is on a truck speeding to my
local distribution center for delivery tomorrow. So hopefully it will
be here tomorrow. I had two questions:

1) It comes with Windoze 7 (with an upgrade option/disc for W8). Not
sure if I want to wipe it off (ideally, I would have liked to have not
paid for it) but I was wondering if I wanted to do a dual boot, is
there a set of instructions somewhere that I could follow? I have had no
problems with earlier windoze xp unProfessional dual installs, but not
with W7 or W8 (have not even seen a machine with this one). I do wonder
about keeping an OS I am likely to only use when I am talking to some
technical support for some service. Somehow the ones that require
contacting technical support always want you to use IE. I bluff my way
through on these ones.

2) This laptop has touchscreen abilities. While I could in general care
less about this feature, again I did not have an option to get rid of
it. So, I wonder if it is possible to use the touchscreen features with
Fedora 20?

Am I better off trying CentOS on this machine because of the two
questions above? I would however like to stick to Fedora.

Many shanks,
Ranjan

[fedora]

On 2014-06-23 07:10, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> According to FedEx, my new machine is on a truck speeding to my
> local distribution center for delivery tomorrow. So hopefully it will
> be here tomorrow. I had two questions:
> It comes with Windoze 7 (with an upgrade option/disc for W8). Not
>
> sure if I want to wipe it off (ideally, I would have liked to have not
> paid for it) but I was wondering if I wanted to do a dual boot, is
> there a set of instructions somewhere that I could follow? I have had no
> problems with earlier windoze xp unProfessional dual installs, but not
> with W7 or W8 (have not even seen a machine with this one). I do wonder
> about keeping an OS I am likely to only use when I am talking to some
> technical support for some service. Somehow the ones that require
> contacting technical support always want you to use IE. I bluff my way
> through on these ones.
> This laptop has touchscreen abilities. While I could in general care
>
> less about this feature, again I did not have an option to get rid of
> it. So, I wonder if it is possible to use the touchscreen features with
> Fedora 20?
>
> Am I better off trying CentOS on this machine because of the two
> questions above? I would however like to stick to Fedora.
>
> Many shanks,
> Ranjan

Hi Ranjan
regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed Windoze 
7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the Windoze 
partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on Linux I 
installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in VirtualBox.
This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
application.

suomi

[Roger]

> Hi Ranjan
> regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed 
> Windoze 7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the 
> Windoze partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on 
> Linux I installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in 
> VirtualBox.
> This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
> application.
>
> suomi

Can the same be done with xp?
If dual boot is used can we choose to boot to linux first without 
overwriting the MBR.
Thanks
Roger

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:45:57 +0200 fedora  wrote:
> On 2014-06-23 07:10, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > According to FedEx, my new machine is on a truck speeding to my
> > local distribution center for delivery tomorrow. So hopefully it will
> > be here tomorrow. I had two questions:
> > It comes with Windoze 7 (with an upgrade option/disc for W8). Not
> >
> > sure if I want to wipe it off (ideally, I would have liked to have not
> > paid for it) but I was wondering if I wanted to do a dual boot, is
> > there a set of instructions somewhere that I could follow? I have had no
> > problems with earlier windoze xp unProfessional dual installs, but not
> > with W7 or W8 (have not even seen a machine with this one). I do wonder
> > about keeping an OS I am likely to only use when I am talking to some
> > technical support for some service. Somehow the ones that require
> > contacting technical support always want you to use IE. I bluff my way
> > through on these ones.
> > This laptop has touchscreen abilities. While I could in general care
> >
> > less about this feature, again I did not have an option to get rid of
> > it. So, I wonder if it is possible to use the touchscreen features with
> > Fedora 20?
> >
> > Am I better off trying CentOS on this machine because of the two
> > questions above? I would however like to stick to Fedora.
> >
> > Many shanks,
> > Ranjan
>
> Hi Ranjan
> regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed Windoze 
> 7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the Windoze 
> partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on Linux I 
> installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in VirtualBox.
> This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
> application.

Thank you! This is a great idea! Are there detailed instructions on how
to do this, telling the obscure Fedora installer to shrink the Windoze
partition? Can the Windoze partition stay updated?

I would also like to have 2) answered.

Thanks,
Ranjan

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[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:16:44 +1000 Roger  wrote:
> > Hi Ranjan
> > regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed 
> > Windoze 7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the 
> > Windoze partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on 
> > Linux I installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in 
> > VirtualBox.
> > This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
> > application.
> >
> > suomi
>
> Can the same be done with xp?
> If dual boot is used can we choose to boot to linux first without 
> overwriting the MBR.
> Thanks
> Roger

Hello Roger,

Yes, this can be done with XP. My wife (who prefers the Debian-based
distributions) does exactly that with her minimal ubuntu-based
distribution.

Note, however, that XP is no longer supported/updated so stuff will
eventually break on that side.

Ranjan

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 06:55:24 -0500 Ranjan Maitra
 wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:45:57 +0200 fedora  wrote:
> > On 2014-06-23 07:10, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > According to FedEx, my new machine is on a truck speeding to my
> > > local distribution center for delivery tomorrow. So hopefully it will
> > > be here tomorrow. I had two questions:
> > > It comes with Windoze 7 (with an upgrade option/disc for W8). Not
> > >
> > > sure if I want to wipe it off (ideally, I would have liked to have not
> > > paid for it) but I was wondering if I wanted to do a dual boot, is
> > > there a set of instructions somewhere that I could follow? I have had no
> > > problems with earlier windoze xp unProfessional dual installs, but not
> > > with W7 or W8 (have not even seen a machine with this one). I do wonder
> > > about keeping an OS I am likely to only use when I am talking to some
> > > technical support for some service. Somehow the ones that require
> > > contacting technical support always want you to use IE. I bluff my way
> > > through on these ones.
> > > This laptop has touchscreen abilities. While I could in general care
> > >
> > > less about this feature, again I did not have an option to get rid of
> > > it. So, I wonder if it is possible to use the touchscreen features with
> > > Fedora 20?
> > >
> > > Am I better off trying CentOS on this machine because of the two
> > > questions above? I would however like to stick to Fedora.
> > >
> > > Many shanks,
> > > Ranjan
> >
> > Hi Ranjan
> > regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed Windoze 
> > 7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the Windoze 
> > partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on Linux I 
> > installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in VirtualBox.
> > This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
> > application.
>
> Thank you! This is a great idea! Are there detailed instructions on how
> to do this, telling the obscure Fedora installer to shrink the Windoze
> partition? Can the Windoze partition stay updated?

So, I found this:

http://www.howtogeek.com/forum/topic/how-to-install-windows-7-in-virtualbox-...

Is this on the lines of what you are suggesting? Even though I have
windows on the other partition? Do I need to create this bootable usb?
> I would also really like to have 2) answered also if possible.

Thanks,
Ranjan

____________________________________________________________
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[JD]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 1:45 AM, fedora  wrote:
> Hi Ranjan
> regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed Windoze 7
> as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the Windoze partition.
> Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on Linux I installed
> VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in VirtualBox.
> This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora
> application.
>
> suomi

​With one (HUGE) caveat:
Running the windows partition under VB causes windows to detect that
it is running on a totally different machine than it was installed on
and registered with MS.​
 ​
​
Later when I tried to boot into the windows native partition (Dual Boot),
it froze!!!!
I had to call MS and tell them about the problem and they issued me a new
key - and that allowed me to boot windows natively.
​

[Roger]

On 06/23/2014 09:57 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > Can the same be done with xp?
> > > If dual boot is used can we choose to boot to linux first without
> > > overwriting the MBR.
> > > Thanks
> > > Roger
>
> Hello Roger,
>
> Yes, this can be done with XP. My wife (who prefers the Debian-based
> distributions) does exactly that with her minimal ubuntu-based
> distribution.
>
> Note, however, that XP is no longer supported/updated so stuff will
> eventually break on that side.
>
> Ranjan

Thanks Ranjan
The user is keeping windows only as long as it takes to learn ubuntu, 
More of a comfort zone thing..
Roger

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:45:57 +0200 fedora  wrote:
> On 2014-06-23 07:10, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > According to FedEx, my new machine is on a truck speeding to my
> > local distribution center for delivery tomorrow. So hopefully it will
> > be here tomorrow. I had two questions:
> > It comes with Windoze 7 (with an upgrade option/disc for W8). Not
> >
> > sure if I want to wipe it off (ideally, I would have liked to have not
> > paid for it) but I was wondering if I wanted to do a dual boot, is
> > there a set of instructions somewhere that I could follow? I have had no
> > problems with earlier windoze xp unProfessional dual installs, but not
> > with W7 or W8 (have not even seen a machine with this one). I do wonder
> > about keeping an OS I am likely to only use when I am talking to some
> > technical support for some service. Somehow the ones that require
> > contacting technical support always want you to use IE. I bluff my way
> > through on these ones.
> > This laptop has touchscreen abilities. While I could in general care
> >
> > less about this feature, again I did not have an option to get rid of
> > it. So, I wonder if it is possible to use the touchscreen features with
> > Fedora 20?
> >
> > Am I better off trying CentOS on this machine because of the two
> > questions above? I would however like to stick to Fedora.
> >
> > Many shanks,
> > Ranjan
>
> Hi Ranjan
> regarding question 1) I got a PC (Desktop) with fully installed Windoze 
> 7 as well. I then told the Fedora Installer to shrink the Windoze 
> partition. Then I installed Fedora (without dual boot). And on Linux I 
> installed VirtualBox and I made Windoze 7 to operate in VirtualBox.
> This way, I don't need to reboot, but can start Windoze like a Fedora 
> application.

So, I first defragmented and then tried to shrink the W7 partition on
Windoze. However, the 500 GBib disk is shown as having only 226 GB
availability. What is in the rest of it? This is new and I have only
logged in, not added anything. What would happen if I used the Fedora
Installer (anaconda? ) to shrink? How does one do this without
removing/erasing/damaging the partition?

Thanks,
Ranjan
> suomi
>
> users mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
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[Joe Zeff]

On 06/23/2014 08:18 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> So, I first defragmented and then tried to shrink the W7 partition on
> Windoze. However, the 500 GBib disk is shown as having only 226 GB
> availability. What is in the rest of it? This is new and I have only
> logged in, not added anything. What would happen if I used the Fedora
> Installer (anaconda? ) to shrink? How does one do this without
> removing/erasing/damaging the partition?

My understanding is that it's safer, in general, to shrink ntfs 
partitions from within Windows.  However, you might consider getting a 
live image of GParted from here: 
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php making a LiveCD/USB and using 
that to see just what's on your hard drive and doing whatever shrinking 
is needed from that first.  Anaconda may be able to shrink partitions, 
but I've never needed to do it and don't know how reliable it is.  In 
any event, please make sure that you have a backup of that partition 
before you modify it.

[JD]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 06/23/2014 08:18 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > So, I first defragmented and then tried to shrink the W7 partition on
> > Windoze. However, the 500 GBib disk is shown as having only 226 GB
> > availability. What is in the rest of it? This is new and I have only
> > logged in, not added anything. What would happen if I used the Fedora
> > Installer (anaconda? ) to shrink? How does one do this without
> > removing/erasing/damaging the partition?
>
> My understanding is that it's safer, in general, to shrink ntfs partitions
> from within Windows.  However, you might consider getting a live image of
> GParted from here: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php making a
> LiveCD/USB and using that to see just what's on your hard drive and doing
> whatever shrinking is needed from that first.  Anaconda may be able to
> shrink partitions, but I've never needed to do it and don't know how
> reliable it is.  In any event, please make sure that you have a backup of
> that partition before you modify it.
>
> --

​The only software I have used that CONSISTENTLY and RELIABLY shrunk
an NTFS partition to make room for dual boot (installation of another OS),
has been ParttionMagic 8.0.
Unfortunately, it is only available for win32. It will NOT run on
win64. I know, because I tried it!

On win32, it will shrink NTFS to the desired size and fix any
dependencies in the bootstrap code and the boot sector.
​After it finishes, you need to reboot windows for it to
complete the operation, and you're done.
I have tried Linux based software for shrinking NTFS windows
partitions - and windows became unbootable, so that using the
windows install DVD to run fixboot and fixmbr did not work at all!!!
Was a big loss!!

[Ed Greshko]

On 06/24/14 11:46, JD wrote:
> The only software I have used that CONSISTENTLY and RELIABLY shrunk
> an NTFS partition to make room for dual boot (installation of another OS),
> has been ParttionMagic 8.0.
> Unfortunately, it is only available for win32. It will NOT run on
> win64. I know, because I tried it!

Since the OP's system will come with Win7 he may as well just shrink it using the Win7 utilities.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg309169.aspx

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/23/2014 08:46 PM, JD wrote:
> ​The only software I have used that CONSISTENTLY and RELIABLY shrunk
> an NTFS partition to make room for dual boot (installation of another OS),
> has been ParttionMagic 8.0.

Thank you; I've never needed to shrink an ntfs partition, and didn't 
know what programs to trust although I've had good results with GParted 
with other file systems.

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:00:33 +0800 Ed Greshko 
wrote:
> On 06/24/14 11:46, JD wrote:
> > The only software I have used that CONSISTENTLY and RELIABLY shrunk
> > an NTFS partition to make room for dual boot (installation of another OS),
> > has been ParttionMagic 8.0.
> > Unfortunately, it is only available for win32. It will NOT run on
> > win64. I know, because I tried it!
>
> Since the OP's system will come with Win7 he may as well just shrink it using the Win7 utilities.
>
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg309169.aspx
>
> -- 
> Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong. -- Dandemis

Hi,

I tried exactly the above but I got a message which says that I can
only shrink it to some 226 GB (or something like that). The HD is 500
GB. So where did the rest go? All on Windows? Containing what? I did
not fill anything.

Thanks,
Ranjan

[JD]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 06/23/2014 08:46 PM, JD wrote:
> > The only software I have used that CONSISTENTLY and RELIABLY shrunk
> > an NTFS partition to make room for dual boot (installation of another

OS),
> > has been ParttionMagic 8.0.
>
> Thank you; I've never needed to shrink an ntfs partition, and didn't know

what programs to trust although I've had good results with GParted with
other file systems.

Certainly you can shrink partitions using gparted,
but if the partition happens to be a bootable NTFS partition,
then gparted will not work :(

[Ed Greshko]

On 06/24/14 12:16, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> I tried exactly the above but I got a message which says that I can
> only shrink it to some 226 GB (or something like that). The HD is 500
> GB. So where did the rest go? All on Windows? Containing what? I did
> not fill anything.

When you bring up the disk management you'd see a line for each volume.  You have a single volume defined on the 500GB drive?  What says....  Capacity=  Free Space=  and %Free

[JD]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:
> On 06/24/14 12:16, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > I tried exactly the above but I got a message which says that I can
> > only shrink it to some 226 GB (or something like that). The HD is 500
> > GB. So where did the rest go? All on Windows? Containing what? I did
> > not fill anything.
>
> When you bring up the disk management you'd see a line for each volume.
>  You have a single volume defined on the 500GB drive?  What says....
>  Capacity=  Free Space=  and %Free
>
> --
> Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own.
> You may both be wrong. -- Dandemis

​Myself, I have tried the windows built-in partition resizer.
It has limited functionality because there are certain files or dirs
that are for some reason I do not quite understand yet, are not
relocatable to other sectors (blocks :) ).
Interesting that an app like PartitionMagic can do it, but
windows native partition manager cannot :)
​

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/23/2014 09:30 PM, JD wrote:
> It has limited functionality because there are certain files or dirs
> that are for some reason I do not quite understand yet, are not
> relocatable to other sectors (blocks :) ).

I don't know if it's still true, but back in the days of DOS and FAT, 
any file that was Read Only was considered to be unmovable.

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 23 June 2014, JD sent:
> Certainly you can shrink partitions using gparted,
> but if the partition happens to be a bootable NTFS partition,
> then gparted will not work :(

I've done that, it worked fine for me.  Perhaps its more to do with your
partitioning, than the file system on it?

[Lin Xiao]

On 06/24/2014 11:18 AM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> So, I first defragmented and then tried to shrink the W7 partition on
> Windoze. However, the 500 GBib disk is shown as having only 226 GB
> availability. What is in the rest of it? This is new and I have only
> logged in, not added anything. What would happen if I used the Fedora
> Installer (anaconda? ) to shrink? How does one do this without
> removing/erasing/damaging the partition? Thanks, Ranjan

To get more free space, you need to turn off windows system recovery
function on that partition.

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:12:39 -0700 Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 06/23/2014 09:30 PM, JD wrote:
> > It has limited functionality because there are certain files or dirs
> > that are for some reason I do not quite understand yet, are not
> > relocatable to other sectors (blocks :) ).
>
> I don't know if it's still true, but back in the days of DOS and FAT, 
> any file that was Read Only was considered to be unmovable.
> -- 
> users mailing list
> [e-mail]
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> Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org

OK, thanks, all! After struggling with this a bit, I have decided to
delete Windoze and write away my forced purchase of W7 as a donation
to the charity called MS. Life will be so much easier now.

Ranjan

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:24:39 -0500 Ranjan Maitra
 wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:12:39 -0700 Joe Zeff  wrote:
> > On 06/23/2014 09:30 PM, JD wrote:
> > > It has limited functionality because there are certain files or dirs
> > > that are for some reason I do not quite understand yet, are not
> > > relocatable to other sectors (blocks :) ).
> >
> > I don't know if it's still true, but back in the days of DOS and FAT, 
> > any file that was Read Only was considered to be unmovable.
> > -- 
> > users mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
>
> OK, thanks, all! After struggling with this a bit, I have decided to
> delete Windoze and write away my forced purchase of W7 as a donation
> to the charity called MS. Life will be so much easier now.

Sorry but I wanted to thank everyone for helping out with their
suggestions!

Best wishes,
Ranjan
> Ranjan
>
> -- 
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[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 24 June 2014, Ranjan Maitra sent:
> OK, thanks, all! After struggling with this a bit, I have decided to
> delete Windoze and write away my forced purchase of W7 as a donation
> to the charity called MS. Life will be so much easier now.

If you want another challenge, try getting a refund for Windows 7.  ;-\

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:36:45 +0930 Tim 
wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 24 June 2014, Ranjan Maitra sent:
> > OK, thanks, all! After struggling with this a bit, I have decided to
> > delete Windoze and write away my forced purchase of W7 as a donation
> > to the charity called MS. Life will be so much easier now.
>
> If you want another challenge, try getting a refund for Windows 7.  ;-\

:-)

Well, it actually also came with a Windoze 8.1 Update USB.

Ranjan