If you use the Nvidia proprietary drivers (as I do) be aware that installing some of the xorg*.rpm packages can break these drivers in subtle ways. In particular, xorg-x11-server-Xorg.*.rpm contains the file /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so, which conflicts with a file with the same name installed by the Nvidia driver package NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-256.44.run (and probably all the rest). This prevents googleearth from running: it produces an error box containing "Google Earth is unable to identify your graphics card..."
===> Bottom Line <=== If you are using the Nvidia drivers and start having trouble with your graphics system, consider reinstalling the Nvidia drivers.
jon
Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
If you use the Nvidia proprietary drivers (as I do) be aware that installing some of the xorg*.rpm packages can break these drivers in subtle ways. In particular, xorg-x11-server-Xorg.*.rpm contains the file /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so, which conflicts with a file with the same name installed by the Nvidia driver package NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-256.44.run (and probably all the rest).
This is a know problem with the Nvidia install scripts. It is their scriptss that are broken. They should not be overwriting system files.
===> Bottom Line <=== If you are using the Nvidia drivers and start having trouble with your graphics system, consider reinstalling the Nvidia drivers.
On the contrary, consider install nvidia drivers via the RPM Fusion packages, which don't have these problems. Also consider filing a ticket with the Nvidia folks, since they really ought to fix this (not that I'd hold my breath).
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:56 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
If you use the Nvidia proprietary drivers (as I do) be aware that installing some of the xorg*.rpm packages can break these drivers in subtle ways. In particular, xorg-x11-server-Xorg.*.rpm contains the file /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so, which conflicts with a file with the same name installed by the Nvidia driver package NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-256.44.run (and probably all the rest).
This is a know problem with the Nvidia install scripts. It is their scripts that are broken. They should not be overwriting system files.
===> Bottom Line <=== If you are using the Nvidia drivers and start having trouble with your graphics system, consider reinstalling the Nvidia drivers.
On the contrary, consider install nvidia drivers via the RPM Fusion packages, which don't have these problems. Also consider filing a ticket with the Nvidia folks, since they really ought to fix this (not that I'd hold my breath).
If only...
I used the kmod/akmod happily for some time, till google earth stopped working under the kmod/akmod driver. (The open source (nouveau) driver, which would have been preferable doesn't support the 3D hardware which google earth needs to run at a tolerable speed.) But the kmod/akmod drivers fell behind the nvidia releases and were not brought up to date for some time, despite some gentle prodding, so I decided to switch to the proprietary drivers.
kmod/akmod at the rpmfusion repo are now at least two releases behind Nvidia at version 195.36.24, while Nvidia has released 256.35 and 256.44. So it looks like I'll have to stay with the fully proprietary drivers.
I fear that there are technical reasons why Nvidia is releasing files with conflicting names. Can you give a reason why this is not so?
jon
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 17:12:13 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan jonrysh@pacbell.net wrote:
I used the kmod/akmod happily for some time, till google earth stopped working under the kmod/akmod driver. (The open source (nouveau) driver, which would have been preferable doesn't support the 3D hardware which google earth needs to run at a tolerable speed.) But the kmod/akmod drivers fell behind the nvidia releases and were not brought up to date for some time, despite some gentle prodding, so I decided to switch to the proprietary drivers.
Nouveau does support limited 3D now. You can install mesa-dri-drivers-experimental to see if it works well enough for your needs. There are bugs and the 3D support is pretty limited. So there is a good chance it still isn't far enough along to support your needs.
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:12 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I fear that there are technical reasons why Nvidia is releasing files with conflicting names.
Considering that others have repackaged the same drivers, so they install without stuffing up the original system files, the answer would probably be that there is no good reason, just laziness on their behalf.
If they're making the drivers, they can make it ask for files with different file paths, or file names, and leave the original ones alone.
On Monday, August 16, 2010 05:03:54 Tim wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:12 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I fear that there are technical reasons why Nvidia is releasing files with conflicting names.
Considering that others have repackaged the same drivers, so they install without stuffing up the original system files, the answer would probably be that there is no good reason, just laziness on their behalf.
If they're making the drivers, they can make it ask for files with different file paths, or file names, and leave the original ones alone.
The nVidia folks do not package the drivers just for Fedora, but are instead trying to cover all Linux flavors with one single automated .bin install script. My guess is that conflicting file names exist across various distros, and that it is impossible to package the blob installation for all of them simultaneously, without overwriting some system files (on some distros at least).
Rpmfusion folks take the whole thing apart and customize it for Fedora specifically. My guess is that, say, akmod from rpmfusion would break horribly if one tries to install it to OpenSuSE or some other rpm-based Linux flavor.
It is already fortunate that nVidia folks are providing the .bin that can actually be repackaged by third parties to fit a particular distro. Asking for more might be too much, IMHO.
Best, :-) Marko
Tim:
Considering that others have repackaged the same drivers, so they install without stuffing up the original system files, the answer would probably be that there is no good reason, just laziness on their behalf.
If they're making the drivers, they can make it ask for files with different file paths, or file names, and leave the original ones alone.
Marko Vojinovic:
The nVidia folks do not package the drivers just for Fedora, but are instead trying to cover all Linux flavors with one single automated .bin install script.
If they were putting all their own files in /usr/share/nvidia (or something similar), and making their driver look in there, I might give them the benefit of the doubt. But it would appear, from other's prior diagnosis of their installations, that they just stomp all over Xorg files, with gay abandon.
If a driver calls for some standard system file in a standard location, then it should use what's there. If it wants something different, then it should call something different, and from a unique filepath.
It just seems like just more crap Windows-like programming. Where someone just piles crap all over the place, because all they care about is whether their thing does its trick. Not what other damage it creates.
It's perfectly possible, with hardware that has the bits you need, and when drivers aren't shovelled in without due care, to run more than one graphics card on a computer. But all it takes is one I-don't-care-less programmer to stuff that up.
On 08/16/2010 07:38 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Monday, August 16, 2010 05:03:54 Tim wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:12 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I fear that there are technical reasons why Nvidia is releasing files with conflicting names.
Considering that others have repackaged the same drivers, so they install without stuffing up the original system files, the answer would probably be that there is no good reason, just laziness on their behalf.
If they're making the drivers, they can make it ask for files with different file paths, or file names, and leave the original ones alone.
The nVidia folks do not package the drivers just for Fedora, but are instead trying to cover all Linux flavors with one single automated .bin install script. My guess is that conflicting file names exist across various distros, and that it is impossible to package the blob installation for all of them simultaneously, without overwriting some system files (on some distros at least).
Rpmfusion folks take the whole thing apart and customize it for Fedora specifically. My guess is that, say, akmod from rpmfusion would break horribly if one tries to install it to OpenSuSE or some other rpm-based Linux flavor.
It is already fortunate that nVidia folks are providing the .bin that can actually be repackaged by third parties to fit a particular distro. Asking for more might be too much, IMHO.
Best, :-) Marko
Considering the the location of the Xorg files is fairly standard across distributions, and just about every one uses Xorg to provide X, that argument doesn't hold water. There is even a standard plact to put their files where they will not stomp on Xorg, no matter where it is located. That is what the /opt directory tree is fore.
Mikkel
On 08/16/2010 10:17 AM, Mikkel wrote:
On 08/16/2010 07:38 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Monday, August 16, 2010 05:03:54 Tim wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:12 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I fear that there are technical reasons why Nvidia is releasing files with conflicting names.
Considering that others have repackaged the same drivers, so they install without stuffing up the original system files, the answer would probably be that there is no good reason, just laziness on their behalf.
If they're making the drivers, they can make it ask for files with different file paths, or file names, and leave the original ones alone.
The nVidia folks do not package the drivers just for Fedora, but are instead trying to cover all Linux flavors with one single automated .bin install script. My guess is that conflicting file names exist across various distros, and that it is impossible to package the blob installation for all of them simultaneously, without overwriting some system files (on some distros at least).
Rpmfusion folks take the whole thing apart and customize it for Fedora specifically. My guess is that, say, akmod from rpmfusion would break horribly if one tries to install it to OpenSuSE or some other rpm-based Linux flavor.
It is already fortunate that nVidia folks are providing the .bin that can actually be repackaged by third parties to fit a particular distro. Asking for more might be too much, IMHO.
Best, :-) Marko
Considering the the location of the Xorg files is fairly standard across distributions, and just about every one uses Xorg to provide X, that argument doesn't hold water. There is even a standard plact to put their files where they will not stomp on Xorg, no matter where it is located. That is what the /opt directory tree is fore.
Mikkel
I should just keep quiet, but anyhow ...
I just installed the latest evil Nvidia driver, which works great on my F11 box, and nothing is broken. I just did 'ls -ltr' in all the /usr directories, and I don't see anything "stomped" on except for some include files. All the files installed by the Nvidia installer (except the include files) have "nvidia" and/or a version number in their name. Nvidia replaces libGL (and friends), but the files are properly versioned, and the original files are still there.
I really don't understand the "problem". Is it practical or philosophical?
Regards,
John
On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 20:01 -0700, john wendel wrote:
I should just keep quiet, but anyhow ...
Yes, why tempt fate, when you can... ;-)
I just installed the latest evil Nvidia driver, which works great on my F11 box, and nothing is broken. I just did 'ls -ltr' in all the /usr directories, and I don't see anything "stomped" on except for some include files. All the files installed by the Nvidia installer (except the include files) have "nvidia" and/or a version number in their name. Nvidia replaces libGL (and friends), but the files are properly versioned, and the original files are still there.
If they have stopped stomping on original files, then it's news to us. Because the have for years.
I really don't understand the "problem". Is it practical or philosophical?
You could start by reading: http://rpmfusion.org/RPMFusionSwitcher
Not to mention that one of the great benefits of using Fedora with packages from the usual repos, is that "yum update" takes care of everything. Unlike the Windows-style of management, where everything is separately handled (Windows does its own updates, your drivers need separately updating, your software individually checks with mummy for updates once a day, or each time you fire it up).
There used to be an easy to find page that detailed exactly what blunders Nvidia did to your system with their install, but I can't find it right now. Considering their prior behaviour, I have little faith in them.
-
Bruno Wolff III -
John Wendel -
Jonathan Ryshpan -
Marko Vojinovic -
Mikkel -
Tim -
Todd Zullinger