2:48 p.m.
Hi;
I have been going through my messages log and saw this.
...
kernel: tuner 2-0042: chip found @ 0x84 (cx23885[0])
kernel: tda829x 2-0042: could not clearly identify tuner address,
defaulting to 60
kernel: tda18271 2-0060: creating new instance
kernel: TDA18271HD/C1 detected @ 2-0060
kernel: tda829x 2-0042: type set to tda8295+18271
...
Is this normal, or does "could not clearly identify tuner address"
indicate a problem?
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
4:50 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
William Case wrote:
Hi Michael;
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:
>
>> Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails
>> to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
> It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even
try to do
> what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is
> from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.
I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does
not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that
ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.
However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get no
sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would
misunderstand
what I am saying. What words would you suggest I choose to express that
meaning?
Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point of
this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that
are related to ALSA. My system's sound chips are not terribly unique.
The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes
both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to
overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have
also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the
under lying chips or drivers.
Enabling some chip to do what? There is no analog sound any more, you can't
"enable" it, you would have to write your own driver.
Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using
alsa's
analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to
get that going.
What you need is a program which can handle what the video driver writers choose
to make available (because that's useful to them) and has a usable user
interface I can give to a non-hacker. Unfortunately after almost two years of
looking I have concluded that video is now exclusively hacker land. Application
tell the user to do things in SQL, or to enter channel frequencies in MHz, and
there seems to be nothing which is user friendly, where you can select analog or
digital format (many cable systems have both), and a channel number, and have it
work without knowing how to "install the database software of choice and create
a user" or "build a table to frequencies in MHz and channel names" and
other
things of interest only to hackers.
TV on Linux had a brief moment of working very easily, but it seems to have
vanished. If I'm trying to get someone to try Linux instead of Win7 I never
mention TV capability.
--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen(a)tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
3:46 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Hi Michael;
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:
Why do you insist on avoiding mplayer like the plague? It's
available
for Fedora at rpmfusion.org, and /dev/video1 ought to be of primary
interest. [Unless you want to look at mythtv instead.]
'mplayer' with the following settings works (kinda) for video1.
mplayer /dev/video1 -vo xv -nobps -autosync 30 -forceidx -hardframedrop
-vc ffmpeg12 -idle -menu -cache 16384 -cache-seek-min 50 -mc 0 -ni
Full video, full audio.
The picture is a little wonky but that is probably because of -vc
ffmpeg12. I am experimenting with various mpeg video codecs and other
settings.
I can also run both tvtime and mplayer and get sound.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
11:07 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Hi Michael;
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:
> Since I have no 'Line'
Your onboard audio doeso have 'Line' (analog audio input), but it's not
connected with your tv card.
> the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'
Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players,
tvtime doesn't output any samples.
[...]
Ooh ! Back to using 'Line'.
Why do you insist on avoiding mplayer like the plague? It's
available
for Fedora at rpmfusion.org, and /dev/video1 ought to be of primary
interest. [Unless you want to look at mythtv instead.
I have already downloaded mplayer. Becasue of the experience I had the
last time I tried it, I wanted to get a few uninterrupted hours alone
with it. The last few days have been taken up with other things. So
will be today. I will try to get mplayer going first thing in the
morning.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
10:57 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:
Hi Michael
Do you mind if I keep banging away at this with your off-list
assistance? I will not be offended if you respond that this issue
should remain on-list or that you have given up on my particular
problem.
It's better to keep it on the public list, so other users can
read it and possibly add comments.
Since I have no 'Line'
Your onboard audio doeso have 'Line' (analog audio input), but it's not
connected with your tv card.
the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'
Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players,
tvtime doesn't output any samples.
[...]
Why do you insist on avoiding mplayer like the plague? It's available
for Fedora at rpmfusion.org, and /dev/video1 ought to be of primary
interest. [Unless you want to look at mythtv instead.]
3:47 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Hi Michael;
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:
> Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails
> to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even try to
do
what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is
from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.
I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does
not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that
ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.
However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get no
sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would
misunderstand
what I am saying. What words would you suggest I choose to express that
meaning?
Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point of
this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that
are related to ALSA. My system's sound chips are not terribly unique.
The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes
both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to
overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have
also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the
under lying chips or drivers.
Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using alsa's
analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to
get that going.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
12:54 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:
Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox
fails
to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even try to
do
what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is
from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.
To see how you continue to mention "no sound" with regard to tvtime get's
boring. Honestly. tvtime alone _cannot_ give you sound with your choice of
hardware. Your only tv audio source is the mpeg stream.
tvtime + mplayer combined is a hack, a poor solution that seems to
work for a few people. Nobody claims it would be the only solution.
Perhaps one can kick tvtime and use more of mplayer's
tv:// options to choose channels, provided that one looks into
creating a channel list for mplayer.
When using mplayer without pulseaudio, just with ALSA, mplayer does
not
recognize the 'Line-in' control on gMixer or alsamixer for either CD or
TV. Volume and mute only work with 'Master', 'PCM' and 'Front'
in
mplayer. I can mute or completely remove 'Line-in' from gMixer without
any effect on sound output.
Could be because a player typically is interested in output channels
only. Unless it's some versatile piece of software that can record, too,
or mix multiple audio sources.
The commands I have used to get sound are:
]$ mplayer cdda://1
and/or,
]$ mplayer /dev/video1
mplayer reads CDs digitally (the same technique like "ripping" them)
whereas several other music players only let the CD drive itself play
tracks on the CD. For the latter you also need a cable between CD drive
and audio hardware. The former involves sending samples to your audio
output DAC.
> > the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is
'PCM'
>
> Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players,
> tvtime doesn't output any samples.
Yes I realize that PCM controls the "sample output volume", yet every
source of sound I try, PCM seems to play one of the controlling roles.
You don't use your analogue input devices, and hence your activity
concentrates on digital playback of samples.
10:09 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Hi Michael;
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:
Why do you insist on avoiding mplayer like the plague? It's
available
for Fedora at rpmfusion.org, and /dev/video1 ought to be of primary
interest. [Unless you want to look at mythtv instead.]
Here is what I have found out so far:
1) Cold Boot +
tvtime => great video + no sound + TV channel #33 (set by me)
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => black & white, distorted video + great sound +
TV channel #33 - not set by me. I have not yet loaded a TV channel
list for mplayer.
then tvtime again => black & white, distorted video + no sound + TV
channel #33
2) Restart
tvtime => great video + no sound + TV channel #25
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => no sound + no video+TV channel freezes
tvtime => black & white, distorted video + no sound + TV channel #33
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => no sound + no video+ TV channel still frozen
3) Logout and back in
tvtime => black & white, distorted video + no sound + TV channel #33
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => black & white, indistinct video + great sound
+ TV channel #33
4) Restart
tvtime => great video + no sound + TV channel #33
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => black & white, distorted video + great sound +
TV channel #33
5) Restart
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 =>"Playing /dev/video1. ... Exiting... (End of
file)"
tvtime => black & white, distorted video + no sound + TV channel #33
]$ mplayer /dev/video1 => black & white, distorted video + great sound +
TV channel #33
It is as if one tv program was picking up (environmental ?) constant(s)
created by the other program and the only way to flush the environment
is to re-boot.
_____________________________
The site http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-1800
suggested the mplayer command that I have been using as a basis of my
mplayer tv commands i.e. mplayer /dev/video1 -vo x11 -nobps -autosync 30
-forceidx -hardframedrop -vc ffmpeg12 -idle -menu -cache 16384
-cache-seek-min 50 -mc 0 -ni
I slowly experimented (using man mplayer) with each one of the elements
of this command. Removing or altering one element after another made no
difference to the output. Each trial and error gave the same results as
a simple 'mplayer /dev/video1'
_______________________________
By the way, for the first time I am getting the following error from
mplayer /dev/video1 :
...
Starting playback...
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code
VDec: vo config request - 720 x 480 (preferred colorspace: Planar
YV12)
VDec: using Planar YV12 as output csp (no 0)
Movie-Aspect is 1.33:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
VO: [xv] 720x480 => 720x540 Planar YV12
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code??% ??% ??,?% 11
0
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code21% 6% 158.4% 23
0
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code16% 4% 107.4% 31
0
[mpeg2video @ 0xabd6c0]Missing picture start code
...
Previously mplayer warned me that it
"Cannot seek backward in linear streams!
Seek failed"
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
8:52 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:
> Hi Michael
It's better to keep it on the public list, so other users can
read it and possibly add comments.
> Since I have no 'Line'
Your onboard audio doeso have 'Line' (analog audio input), but it's not
connected with your tv card.
Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails
to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
When using mplayer without pulseaudio, just with ALSA, mplayer does not
recognize the 'Line-in' control on gMixer or alsamixer for either CD or
TV. Volume and mute only work with 'Master', 'PCM' and 'Front'
in
mplayer. I can mute or completely remove 'Line-in' from gMixer without
any effect on sound output.
The commands I have used to get sound are:
]$ mplayer cdda://1
and/or,
]$ mplayer /dev/video1
I do not believe CD playing or TV are separate issues but are
intertwined. Until the basic ALSA bug that is affecting my CD/DVD is
fixed, I'll never get to the bottom of the tvtime question.
> the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'
Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players,
tvtime doesn't output any samples.
Yes I realize that PCM controls the "sample output volume", yet every
source of sound I try, PCM seems to play one of the controlling roles.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
10:26 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Hi Michael
Do you mind if I keep banging away at this with your off-list
assistance? I will not be offended if you respond that this issue
should remain on-list or that you have given up on my particular
problem.
_____________________
Since I have no 'Line' the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is
'PCM'
However, ]$ tvtime --mixer="hw:0/PCM" returns an error
"mixer: mute not implemented".
I looked on-line and found this in the latest tvtime patch:
http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-extras-commits/2009-06/msg05593.html+ /**
+ * Make sure that if multiple users mute the card,
+ * we only honour the last one.
+ */
+ if( !mute && mutecount ) mutecount--;
+ if( mutecount ) return;
+
+ if( mute ) {
+ mutecount++;
+ muted = 1;
+ if (snd_mixer_selem_has_playback_switch(elem))
+ snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_switch_all(elem, 0);
+ else
+ fprintf(stderr, "mixer: mute not implemented\n");
+ } else {
+ muted = 0;
+ if (snd_mixer_selem_has_playback_switch(elem))
+ snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_switch_all(elem, 1);
+ else
+ fprintf(stderr, "mixer: mute not implemented\n");
+ }
Is this worth exploring?
Meanwhile, I will continue to chase down the info I get from lshal.
It shows me where everything is in the VFS and the devices identified by
the HAL site.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
8:46 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:48:45 -0400, William wrote:
Hi;
I have been going through my messages log and saw this.
...
kernel: tuner 2-0042: chip found @ 0x84 (cx23885[0])
kernel: tda829x 2-0042: could not clearly identify tuner address,
defaulting to 60
kernel: tda18271 2-0060: creating new instance
kernel: TDA18271HD/C1 detected @ 2-0060
kernel: tda829x 2-0042: type set to tda8295+18271
...
Is this normal, or does "could not clearly identify tuner address"
indicate a problem?
/kernel-2.6.29/linux-2.6.29.i686/drivers/media/common/tuners/tda8290.c
The implementation in the source code is ambiguous. The warning means that
either no tuner was detected or that multiple were detected (at most four
from 0x60 to 0x63), but the driver didn't pass its check when trying to
choose either one automatically, and then it uses a default address, 0x60.
Nevertheless, in a later check the driver thinks the tuner at the chosen
address works or else it would report an error "tuner access failed".
8:45 p.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
Thanks Michael;
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 03:46 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:48:45 -0400, William wrote:
> Hi;
>
> I have been going through my messages log and saw this.
> ...
> kernel: tuner 2-0042: chip found @ 0x84 (cx23885[0])
> kernel: tda829x 2-0042: could not clearly identify tuner address,
> defaulting to 60
> kernel: tda18271 2-0060: creating new instance
> kernel: TDA18271HD/C1 detected @ 2-0060
> kernel: tda829x 2-0042: type set to tda8295+18271
> ...
>
> Is this normal, or does "could not clearly identify tuner address"
> indicate a problem?
/kernel-2.6.29/linux-2.6.29.i686/drivers/media/common/tuners/tda8290.c
The implementation in the source code is ambiguous. The warning means that
either no tuner was detected or that multiple were detected (at most four
from 0x60 to 0x63), but the driver didn't pass its check when trying to
choose either one automatically, and then it uses a default address, 0x60.
Nevertheless, in a later check the driver thinks the tuner at the chosen
address works or else it would report an error "tuner access failed".
hmmm ...
I am currently going through lshal to find out what HAL thinks video0,
video1, hw:0 and hw:1 are. I'll keep this re: tuner in mind. There is
some stuff about ALSA in the HAL list as well.
--
Regards Bill
Fedora 11, Gnome 2.26.3
Evo.2.26.3, Emacs 22.3.1
5:18 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 04:47:29 -0400, William wrote:
Hi Michael;
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:
>
> > Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails
> > to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
>
> It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even
try to do
> what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is
> from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.
I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does
not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that
ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.
For what? If *you* run tvtime with *your* hardware configuration, there
is no audio available to be "mixed". You may continue to point tvtime
at any of the available ALSA mixer devices, but it won't turn on any audio.
[The only scenario that would be possible is to abuse tvtime as
a volume control of e.g. the "Master" or "PCM" channels while using
a music player to play back audio tracks.]
However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get
no
sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would
misunderstand
what I am saying.
And still at least one other list subscriber has mentioned the cable
between tv card and audio board. ;) The obvious fix that doesn't
apply in your case. It doesn't become clear what you try to find out.
The condition "tvtime gives sound" does not exist with your h/w config.
That you get "no sound" with tvtime is _expected_. It's irrelevant to
continue with pointing out that tvtime "fails" or gives you "no
sound".
tvtime works as expected. Your tv card driver provides the video signal
on /dev/video0, which is what tvtime displays correctly (with good
quality even, as you've pointed out). The mpeg encoded A/V stream on
/dev/video1 is nothing tvtime understands.
What words would you suggest I choose to express that meaning?
To focus on the relevant details.
Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point
of
this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that
are related to ALSA.
Maybe, but the message doesn't become clear at all anymore. What
exactly are you trouble-shooting? Music playback in application 1 or
television in application 2?
How about choosing a meaningful Subject line for the mails?
My system's sound chips are not terribly unique.
The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes
both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to
overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have
also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the
under lying chips or drivers.
Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using alsa's
analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to
get that going.
What kind of "analog sound capability" do you have in mind?
"Analog sound" refers to the Input ADC and Output DAC units. Since you
don't use your input (Line-in, or Microphone e.g.) where do you expect
analog audio input to come from?
7:48 a.m.
New subject: TV tuner, sound etc. -- what does this mean?
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 AM, William Case <billlinux(a)rogers.com> wrote:
Hi Michael;
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:
>
> > Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails
> > to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).
>
> It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even
try to
do
> what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is
> from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.
I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does
not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that
ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.
However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get no
sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would
misunderstand
what I am saying. What words would you suggest I choose to express that
meaning?
Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point of
this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that
are related to ALSA. My system's sound chips are not terribly unique.
The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes
both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to
overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have
also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the
under lying chips or drivers.
Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using alsa's
analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to
get that going.
Why don't you try using arecord+aplay for the sound?
http://orion.lcg.ufrj.br/roma/ALSA.html#recording
--
Paulo Roma Cavalcanti
LCG - UFRJ
5256
days inactive
5380
days old
13 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Bill Case -
Bill Davidsen -
Michael Schwendt -
Paulo Cavalcanti