Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home. VJ
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, VJ wrote:
Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home.
are you sure about *all* of your work being owned by your company? that seems like a rather unreasonable restriction, unless you explicitly signed such an agreement when you were hired. that sounds like the kind of thing that companies *like* to say even when it's unenforceable.
in any case, if your company has no objections to you GPLing some off-hours work you've done, then read:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
toward the bottom, where it states:
==== ... You should also get your employer (if you work as a programmer) or your school, if any, to sign a "copyright disclaimer" for the program, if necessary. Here is a sample; alter the names:
Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the program `Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James Hacker.
signature of Ty Coon, 1 April 1989 Ty Coon, President of Vice =====
rday
"VJ" == VJ vj@vijaygill.homelinux.net writes:
VJ> Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my VJ> work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time)
What legislation is that? It's a gross violation of human rights.
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, VJ wrote:
are you sure about *all* of your work being owned by your company? that seems like a rather unreasonable restriction, unless you explicitly signed such an agreement when you were hired. that sounds like the kind of thing that companies *like* to say even when it's unenforceable.
in any case, if your company has no objections to you GPLing some off-hours work you've done, then read:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
toward the bottom, where it states:
==== ... You should also get your employer (if you work as a programmer) or your school, if any, to sign a "copyright disclaimer" for the program, if necessary. Here is a sample; alter the names:
Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the program `Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James Hacker.
signature of Ty Coon, 1 April 1989 Ty Coon, President of Vice =====
rday
Thanks for the reply. I will read that and pass it on to my manager. My agreement says 'All my work during my tenure is owned by my company', but the thing I am talking about is NO work!!! It is hobby :)
VJ
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:52 +0000, VJ vj@vijaygill.homelinux.net wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
What legislation is that? It's a gross violation of human rights.
I dunno, I asked one of my managers and he told me there is one. I am from India working in Ireland, so I don't know much about the laws/legislations here.
I think you'd better start reading the relevant law/laws, because it's in your best interest. I find it rather unlikely for such a law to exist, but you can ask your manager what law he is referring to. I bet he'll be unable to answer that. it's more likely though, like somebody said earlier, that you signed an agreement when you were hired. many companies do that, including my own :(
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, VJ wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I will read that and pass it on to my manager. My agreement says 'All my work during my tenure is owned by my company', but the thing I am talking about is NO work!!! It is hobby :)
i doubt that would be a meaningful distinction. if you signed such a contract, you might be screwed. but is that a verbatim statement from your contract? it seems kinda vague. what's the definition of "work"? what's the definition of "tenure"? does it encompass only regular working hours? etc, etc.
you mention that you're from india. can you get a look at contracts that were signed by other employees, both foreign and native, and see if they differ in the wording? it seems that this might be an illegal contract and they're taking advantage of your work situation.
anyway, IANAL so i'm just thinking out loud.
rday
p.s. if you are, in fact, a foreign worker, even if you're legally in the right, you might not want to press the issue since it might jeopardize your work situation. just some friendly advice.
Andrei Nestor wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:52 +0000, VJ vj@vijaygill.homelinux.net wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
What legislation is that? It's a gross violation of human rights.
I dunno, I asked one of my managers and he told me there is one. I am from India working in Ireland, so I don't know much about the laws/legislations here.
I think you'd better start reading the relevant law/laws, because it's in your best interest. I find it rather unlikely for such a law to exist, but you can ask your manager what law he is referring to. I bet he'll be unable to answer that. it's more likely though, like somebody said earlier, that you signed an agreement when you were hired. many companies do that, including my own :(
Normally these restrictions are placed on any "work" you do in relation to your employment, i.e. if you work on a project (for your employer) in your own time at home it still belongs to your employer. They wouldn't normally apply to something you do in your own time using your own resources that is not related to your employment - though I'm not a lawyer...
FAS
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 05:44 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, VJ wrote:
Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company.
No, this is definitely wrong. I can't exclude it might be true in some countries, but it definitely is not true in Germany.
In Germany, almost the opposite applies:
Any non-trivial, non-contracted creative piece of SW having been written under your free will, is considered "creative art-work" and is owned by you/copyrighted by you.
This ownership/copyright is non-assignable to anybody and protected by Germany's constitution. I.e. you as the author of such a piece of software can not give away your copyright - Once written, it will always be owned by you. All you can do is to license it to others.
Contracted work is a different matter. In general, it is owned by the contract giver.
This may sound complicated, but it actually isn't, when comparing it to other domains:
* A carpenter who designs a table and sells a copy of this table to you owns the copyright on the table you bought. You may use the table, but you may not copy it.
* A carpenter to whom you bring the design drawing of a table you draw yourself, to let him manufacture it, performs "contracted work under your direction". Therefore he does not own the copyright, and may not replicate the table, except with your permission.
Of cause their exists a gray zone.
The keywords are "free will", "non-trivial" and "creative". If they don't apply, according German law, such work is not copyright-able at all.
Ralf
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:23:32 +0000, Francis Stevens francis.stevens@bristow.co.uk wrote:
Andrei Nestor wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:52 +0000, VJ vj@vijaygill.homelinux.net wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
What legislation is that? It's a gross violation of human rights.
I dunno, I asked one of my managers and he told me there is one. I am from India working in Ireland, so I don't know much about the laws/legislations here.
I think you'd better start reading the relevant law/laws, because it's in your best interest. I find it rather unlikely for such a law to exist, but you can ask your manager what law he is referring to. I bet he'll be unable to answer that. it's more likely though, like somebody said earlier, that you signed an agreement when you were hired. many companies do that, including my own :(
Normally these restrictions are placed on any "work" you do in relation to your employment, i.e. if you work on a project (for your employer) in your own time at home it still belongs to your employer. They wouldn't normally apply to something you do in your own time using your own resources that is not related to your employment - though I'm not a lawyer...
FAS
Although in the IT business unfortunately, any open-source project you might engage in outside your normal working time could be considered work-related. There are chances, however, that the agreement you signed says something like "unless written management approval is obtained". If this is the case, you're in luck, as your manager could give you that approval, especially if you're planning to work on a smaller or harder-to-relate- to-your-actual-line-of-business project. hope that makes sense.
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:40, VJ wrote:
Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home. VJ
I'm in the UK and I've never heard of such a law. I'm a contractor and operate as a limited company. My contract specifically states I may work for other people/companies.
Your manager may have been joking and you took him seriously, but check your contract and listen to the advice others have given.
If there were such a law then I think many of us would know about it, the effect would be huge.
Regards
Chris
Chris Hewitt wrote:
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:40, VJ wrote:
Hi, I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home. VJ
I'm in the UK and I've never heard of such a law. I'm a contractor and operate as a limited company. My contract specifically states I may work for other people/companies.
Your manager may have been joking and you took him seriously, but check your contract and listen to the advice others have given.
If there were such a law then I think many of us would know about it, the effect would be huge.
Regards
Chris
Yippee!!! I got a green signal to go ahead and there will be no problem!!! All I have to do is sign a document with my company for every piece code that I contribute to open-source community. VJ
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:40 +0000, VJ wrote:
I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (eventhe one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home.
What that directive did (known as the software copyright directive) was set the default to: what you do while your work at your company is theirs. What you do on your own personal free time is yours.
But that doesn't mean you can't have signed a contract that said _all_ that you do is theirs.... I'd take it to a lawyer, that might even be illegal in your country.
The place I work at tried to do that, but the boss I was under at the time of my acquisition told me not to sign it, so I'd just stay with the default.
Rui
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 03:15:57PM +0000, VJ wrote:
Chris Hewitt wrote:
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:40, VJ wrote:
I came to know that a legislation in EU says that all my work (even the one that I develop at home, in my free time) is owned by my company. What do I have to do in case I have something to contribute and I developed it in my free time at home. VJ
I'm in the UK and I've never heard of such a law. I'm a contractor and operate as a limited company. My contract specifically states I may work for other people/companies.
Your manager may have been joking and you took him seriously, but check your contract and listen to the advice others have given.
If there were such a law then I think many of us would know about it, the effect would be huge.
Regards
Chris
Yippee!!! I got a green signal to go ahead and there will be no problem!!! All I have to do is sign a document with my company for every piece code that I contribute to open-source community.
Most excellent.
Keep copies of the documents...
Do keep work and play separate as much as is possible.
If your work has you working on software for one thing work in another area for OpenSource.
If you have two machines use one for play and the other for work. If not two machines two accounts on the same machine. Same for your time. Block out a schedule and keep to it.
In some cases this might look like a thin dotted line but it has value at a lot of levels.
-
Andrei Nestor -
Chris Hewitt -
Colin Paul Adams -
Francis Stevens -
Ralf Corsepius -
Robert P. J. Day -
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra -
Tom Mitchell -
VJ