Sound Quality Problem

[Guo Lin]

Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use FC6, I
notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to Windows.
As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad especially when
bass comes in the music.
I got to know there several sound drivers for FC6, so I tried on those that
I know, i.e. ALSA, OSS, ESD, ARTS. But I notice not much difference between
them.
I tried to look for the solution from the Internet, but unfortunately I am
too 'noob' to understand those, except for one, which is by turning PCM to
0.00 dB, which is 74. I did it, and the sound quality is better now.
However, whenever there is bass in the music, the sound quality is as bad as
it was.
Could anyone please tell me what should I do to improve the sound quality?
T.I.A. =)

[Tim]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 17:05 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
>  Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use
> FC6,
>  I notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to
>  Windows.
>  As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad especially
>  when bass comes in the music.  
Beyond some fault causing distortion, I can't see why one would be
different than the other, it's the same hardware producing the sound.
The only think I can think of is:  Are you boosting the bass in Windows,
and noticing that difference?  I haven't seen tone controls on a Linux
control panel, and artificially boosting bass doesn't really compensate
for crappy speakers.

The other thing that springs to mind, is having a duff audio cable,
where the ground isn't properly connected.  Instead of getting left and
right signals, you end up with a mono signal comprised of left minus
right, which seriously drops the bass down, as well as introducing other
odd phasing errors.

What are you playing, though?  And how are you listening?  MP3s were
notorious for having crap bass, and a less than brilliant decoder
doesn't help.

And what do you mean by bad?  Distorting?  Lacking in bass?  Something
else?

For what it's worth, on my various PCs, the sound sounds the same
whatever OS is driving it.  For any file format (an ogg on Windows
versus an ogg on Linux, and so on, but not ogg versus MP3), and whether
using those crappy PC speakers, or the Wharfedales on the stereo system.

-- 
(This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Guo Lin]

Thank you for replying.

I play the same mp3 on my FC6 and WinXP on the same PC using the same
speakers. But they sounds really different. I find the music turns crappy in
FC6. I use default settings for the equalizers/mixers etc. For acapella
music, it does not sound too differently between that in FC6 and WinXP. The
'crappiness' of the music is more significant when the drums, bass, etc come
in the music. The music sounds like it is played on old bad speakers.

Sorry for my bad English. I hope you can understand what I am trying to
express. ^.^"

I just found out that when I play the mp3 in mpg321 in terminal, it sounds
as good as it is played in Windows. But when the same song is played using
other players, they sound much worse than that. I do not know what this
could mean but I hope by stating this can help someone to identify the
problem and eventually help me to overcome it. =)


On 5/13/07, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au&gt; wrote:
>  On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 17:05 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
>  > Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use FC6,
>  > I notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to
>  > Windows.
>  > As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad especially
>  > when bass comes in the music.
>
>  Beyond some fault causing distortion, I can't see why one would be
>  different than the other, it's the same hardware producing the sound.
>  The only think I can think of is:  Are you boosting the bass in Windows,
>  and noticing that difference?  I haven't seen tone controls on a Linux
>  control panel, and artificially boosting bass doesn't really compensate
>  for crappy speakers.
>
>  The other thing that springs to mind, is having a duff audio cable,
>  where the ground isn't properly connected.  Instead of getting left and
>  right signals, you end up with a mono signal comprised of left minus
>  right, which seriously drops the bass down, as well as introducing other
>  odd phasing errors.
>
>  What are you playing, though?  And how are you listening?  MP3s were
>  notorious for having crap bass, and a less than brilliant decoder
>  doesn't help.
>
>  And what do you mean by bad?  Distorting?  Lacking in bass?  Something
>  else?
>
>  For what it's worth, on my various PCs, the sound sounds the same
>  whatever OS is driving it.  For any file format (an ogg on Windows
>  versus an ogg on Linux, and so on, but not ogg versus MP3), and whether
>  using those crappy PC speakers, or the Wharfedales on the stereo system.
>
>  --
>  (This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
>  important to the thread.)
>
>  Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
>  I read messages from the public lists.
>
>
>  --
>  fedora-list mailing list
>  fedora-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

[Ed Greshko]

Guo Lin wrote:
>  Thank you for replying.
>  
>  I play the same mp3 on my FC6 and WinXP on the same PC using the same
>  speakers. But they sounds really different. I find the music turns
>  crappy in FC6. I use default settings for the equalizers/mixers etc. For
>  acapella music, it does not sound too differently between that in FC6
>  and WinXP. The 'crappiness' of the music is more significant when the
>  drums, bass, etc come in the music. The music sounds like it is played
>  on old bad speakers.
>  
>  Sorry for my bad English. I hope you can understand what I am trying to
>  express. ^.^"
>  
>  I just found out that when I play the mp3 in mpg321 in terminal, it
>  sounds as good as it is played in Windows. But when the same song is
>  played using other players, they sound much worse than that. I do not
>  know what this could mean but I hope by stating this can help someone to
>  identify the problem and eventually help me to overcome it. =) 
Could you run "lspci -v" as root and post the output that is associated with
your sound card or sound hardware?

>  
>  
>  On 5/13/07, *Tim* <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
>      On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 17:05 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
>      > Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use FC6,
>      > I notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to
>      > Windows.
>      > As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad especially
>      > when bass comes in the music.
>  
>      Beyond some fault causing distortion, I can't see why one would be
>      different than the other, it's the same hardware producing the sound.
>      The only think I can think of is:  Are you boosting the bass in Windows,
>      and noticing that difference?  I haven't seen tone controls on a Linux
>      control panel, and artificially boosting bass doesn't really compensate
>      for crappy speakers.
>  
>      The other thing that springs to mind, is having a duff audio cable,
>      where the ground isn't properly connected.  Instead of getting left and
>      right signals, you end up with a mono signal comprised of left minus
>      right, which seriously drops the bass down, as well as introducing other
>      odd phasing errors.
>  
>      What are you playing, though?  And how are you listening?  MP3s were
>      notorious for having crap bass, and a less than brilliant decoder
>      doesn't help.
>  
>      And what do you mean by bad?  Distorting?  Lacking in bass?  Something
>      else?
>  
>      For what it's worth, on my various PCs, the sound sounds the same
>      whatever OS is driving it.  For any file format (an ogg on Windows
>      versus an ogg on Linux, and so on, but not ogg versus MP3), and whether
>      using those crappy PC speakers, or the Wharfedales on the stereo system.
>  
>      --
>      (This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
>      important to the thread.)
>  
>      Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
>      I read messages from the public lists.
>  
>  
>      --
>      fedora-list mailing list
>      fedora-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>  
>   

-- 
Adde parvum parvo manus acervus erit.
	[Add little to little and there will be a big pile.]
		-- Ovid

[Guo Lin]

00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. K8T NEO 2 motherboard
        Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 19
        I/O ports at c400 [size=256]
        Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2

I am really confused now.. I have no idea what I have done, but it seems
like it sounds pleasant now, as compared to what I got previously. I can
only remember I changed all the ALSA as my  sound driver for all option in
the Sound Preferences, and I disabled software sound mixing (ESD) in the
Sounds tab.

Hmm.. could anyone explain to me the relevance of what I did with the sound?
I know I will never get to learn anything if I just 'let it be since it is
fixed'.

On 5/13/07, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko(a)greshko.com&gt; wrote:
>  Guo Lin wrote:
>  > Thank you for replying.
>  >
>  > I play the same mp3 on my FC6 and WinXP on the same PC using the same
>  > speakers. But they sounds really different. I find the music turns
>  > crappy in FC6. I use default settings for the equalizers/mixers etc. For
>  > acapella music, it does not sound too differently between that in FC6
>  > and WinXP. The 'crappiness' of the music is more significant when the
>  > drums, bass, etc come in the music. The music sounds like it is played
>  > on old bad speakers.
>  >
>  > Sorry for my bad English. I hope you can understand what I am trying to
>  > express. ^.^"
>  >
>  > I just found out that when I play the mp3 in mpg321 in terminal, it
>  > sounds as good as it is played in Windows. But when the same song is
>  > played using other players, they sound much worse than that. I do not
>  > know what this could mean but I hope by stating this can help someone to
>  > identify the problem and eventually help me to overcome it. =)
>
>  Could you run "lspci -v" as root and post the output that is associated
>  with
>  your sound card or sound hardware?
>
>  >
>  >
>  > On 5/13/07, *Tim* <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au
>  > <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  >
>  >     On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 17:05 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
>  >     > Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use
>  FC6,
>  >     > I notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to
>  >     > Windows.
>  >     > As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad
>  especially
>  >     > when bass comes in the music.
>  >
>  >     Beyond some fault causing distortion, I can't see why one would be
>  >     different than the other, it's the same hardware producing the
>  sound.
>  >     The only think I can think of is:  Are you boosting the bass in
>  Windows,
>  >     and noticing that difference?  I haven't seen tone controls on a
>  Linux
>  >     control panel, and artificially boosting bass doesn't really
>  compensate
>  >     for crappy speakers.
>  >
>  >     The other thing that springs to mind, is having a duff audio cable,
>  >     where the ground isn't properly connected.  Instead of getting left
>  and
>  >     right signals, you end up with a mono signal comprised of left minus
>  >     right, which seriously drops the bass down, as well as introducing
>  other
>  >     odd phasing errors.
>  >
>  >     What are you playing, though?  And how are you listening?  MP3s were
>  >     notorious for having crap bass, and a less than brilliant decoder
>  >     doesn't help.
>  >
>  >     And what do you mean by bad?  Distorting?  Lacking in
>  bass?  Something
>  >     else?
>  >
>  >     For what it's worth, on my various PCs, the sound sounds the same
>  >     whatever OS is driving it.  For any file format (an ogg on Windows
>  >     versus an ogg on Linux, and so on, but not ogg versus MP3), and
>  whether
>  >     using those crappy PC speakers, or the Wharfedales on the stereo
>  system.
>  >
>  >     --
>  >     (This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
>  >     important to the thread.)
>  >
>  >     Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
>  >     I read messages from the public lists.
>  >
>  >
>  >     --
>  >     fedora-list mailing list
>  >     fedora-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  >     To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>  >
>  >
>
>
>  --
>  Adde parvum parvo manus acervus erit.
>          [Add little to little and there will be a big pile.]
>                  -- Ovid
>
>  --
>  fedora-list mailing list
>  fedora-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

[oleksandr korneta]

on 05/13/2007 12:03 PM Guo Lin wrote:
>  00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc.
>  VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
>          Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. K8T NEO 2 motherboard
>          Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 19
>          I/O ports at c400 [size=256]
>          Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2
>  
>  I am really confused now.. I have no idea what I have done, but it seems
>  like it sounds pleasant now, as compared to what I got previously. I can
>  only remember I changed all the ALSA as my  sound driver for all option in
>  the Sound Preferences, and I disabled software sound mixing (ESD) in the
>  Sounds tab. 
to my understanding esd and arts are not drivers but sound servers,
responsible for mixing the sound, and the resulting output still goes
through alsa or oss (thought I doubt oss is the case in recent linux
distributions). I aways tried to avoid using esd or arts sound mixing,
because they turned out to be slow for me comparing to the mixing
through alsa dmix plugin. It was nice to see that I dont have to edit
~/.asoundrc manually in recent FC because alsa mixing works well by
default.

Now to your problem, check out the following: I assume you are using
speakers with external amplifier. Check how the sound quality (music or
something) depends on the Master level in you audio control panel (you
can run alsamixer to check that). If the output level of your soundcard
is so high that the signal goes out of linear range of preamplifier the
resulting sound will be distorted. If you find that this is the case -
set you Master and PCM to maximum level when there is no distortion and
use hardware volume control from now on.

I hope I mad it clear enough.

>  
>  Hmm.. could anyone explain to me the relevance of what I did with the sound?
>  I know I will never get to learn anything if I just 'let it be since it is
>  fixed'.
>  
>  On 5/13/07, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko(a)greshko.com&gt; wrote:
> > Guo Lin wrote:
> >> Thank you for replying.
> >>
> >> I play the same mp3 on my FC6 and WinXP on the same PC using the same
> >> speakers. But they sounds really different. I find the music turns
> >> crappy in FC6. I use default settings for the equalizers/mixers etc. For
> >> acapella music, it does not sound too differently between that in FC6
> >> and WinXP. The 'crappiness' of the music is more significant when the
> >> drums, bass, etc come in the music. The music sounds like it is played
> >> on old bad speakers.
> >>
> >> Sorry for my bad English. I hope you can understand what I am trying to
> >> express. ^.^"
> >>
> >> I just found out that when I play the mp3 in mpg321 in terminal, it
> >> sounds as good as it is played in Windows. But when the same song is
> >> played using other players, they sound much worse than that. I do not
> >> know what this could mean but I hope by stating this can help someone to
> >> identify the problem and eventually help me to overcome it. =)
> > Could you run "lspci -v" as root and post the output that is associated
> > with
> > your sound card or sound hardware?
> >
> >>
> >> On 5/13/07, *Tim* <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au
> >> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 17:05 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
> >>     > Hi, I am a very new user of Fedora Core 6. Since I started to use
> > FC6,
> >>     > I notice significant difference in sound quality as compared to
> >>     > Windows.
> >>     > As far as I notice, the sound in FC6 turns noticably bad
> > especially
> >>     > when bass comes in the music.
> >>
> >>     Beyond some fault causing distortion, I can't see why one would be
> >>     different than the other, it's the same hardware producing the
> > sound.
> >>     The only think I can think of is:  Are you boosting the bass in
> > Windows,
> >>     and noticing that difference?  I haven't seen tone controls on a
> > Linux
> >>     control panel, and artificially boosting bass doesn't really
> > compensate
> >>     for crappy speakers.
> >>
> >>     The other thing that springs to mind, is having a duff audio cable,
> >>     where the ground isn't properly connected.  Instead of getting left
> > and
> >>     right signals, you end up with a mono signal comprised of left minus
> >>     right, which seriously drops the bass down, as well as introducing
> > other
> >>     odd phasing errors.
> >>
> >>     What are you playing, though?  And how are you listening?  MP3s were
> >>     notorious for having crap bass, and a less than brilliant decoder
> >>     doesn't help.
> >>
> >>     And what do you mean by bad?  Distorting?  Lacking in
> > bass?  Something
> >>     else?
> >>
> >>     For what it's worth, on my various PCs, the sound sounds the same
> >>     whatever OS is driving it.  For any file format (an ogg on Windows
> >>     versus an ogg on Linux, and so on, but not ogg versus MP3), and
> > whether
> >>     using those crappy PC speakers, or the Wharfedales on the stereo
> > system.
> >>     --
> >>     (This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
> >>     important to the thread.)
> >>
> >>     Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
> >>     I read messages from the public lists.
> >>
> >>
> >>     --
> >>     fedora-list mailing list
> >>     fedora-list(a)redhat.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >>     To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Adde parvum parvo manus acervus erit.
> >         [Add little to little and there will be a big pile.]
> >                 -- Ovid
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > fedora-list(a)redhat.com
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> >
>   
-- 
regards,
Oleksandr Korneta

/The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from./

[Tim]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 18:39 +0800, Guo Lin wrote:
>  I play the same mp3 on my FC6 and WinXP on the same PC using the
> same
>  speakers. But they sounds really different. I find the music turns
>  crappy in FC6. I use default settings for the equalizers/mixers etc.
>  For acapella music, it does not sound too differently between that in
>  FC6 and WinXP. The 'crappiness' of the music is more significant when
>  the drums, bass, etc come in the music. The music sounds like it is
>  played on old bad speakers. 
>
>  I just found out that when I play the mp3 in mpg321 in terminal, it
>  sounds as good as it is played in Windows. But when the same song is
>  played using other players, they sound much worse than that. 
That sounds like it could just be down to whatever MP3 decoder is in
use.  I'd always thought MP3s sounded rather awful, the bass being just
one aspect that did.  Better encoding, in the first place, helps.  But
what you use for decoding is just as important.

I don't have mpg123, but if you also list one or two of the other
players, you might find someone with all of them who can say if they
notice a difference, too.

The other thing that springs to mind is, if other compressed (e.g. ogg)
or non-compressed (e.g. wav) file formats sound okay, that puts the MP3
decoder squarely in the picture for being the problem, rather than the
sound card or its drivers.

-- 
(This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.