F20 is fubar

As far as I am concerned the full system dvd is really not the way to install F20.

I was unable to choose extra packages after choosing a de without wiping my chosen de.

After the install, while it did recognize my ASUS N18 wireless usb nic, and load the right driver, it would only load 1 internet page or do only 1 yum install without a reboot.

It is good that the networking comes up on boot, however it would be nice, when the system encountered a nfs mount in the fstab, it would mount them before completing the boot process.

After installing firefox, which took 2 attempts, it took 4 reboots to install 4 addons.

The webserver, while it does start on boot up leaves a lot to be desired for speed of loading even after being woke up.

First thing I did was disable selinux and firewalld. I find that they are more pita than they are worth for a server that does not connect to the internet that often.

I tested the system with the kde spin and it worked as expected.

After screwing around for 2 days, I am convinced more of the adage 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Dave
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone powered by Mobilicity

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:04:31 +0000
[e-mail] wrote:
> As far as I am concerned the full system dvd is really not the way to
> install F20.

[snip bunch of FUD]

And here I was, wondering when we'll have a go at another traditional
gigantic-troll'n'fud-party-thread on the list. It's been a while since
the last one...

:-D

Best, :-)
Marko

Just stating an opinion

Dave
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone powered by Mobilicity

-----Original Message-----
From: Marko Vojinovic 
Sender: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:13:55 
To: 
Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: F20 is fubar

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:04:31 +0000
[e-mail] wrote:
> As far as I am concerned the full system dvd is really not the way to
> install F20.

[snip bunch of FUD]

And here I was, wondering when we'll have a go at another traditional
gigantic-troll'n'fud-party-thread on the list. It's been a while since
the last one...

:-D

Best, :-)
Marko

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:15:16 +0000
[e-mail] wrote:
> Just stating an opinion

Sure. Did you want any assistance working around or fixing the issues
you ran into? Or did you just want to put your opinion out there?

I'm happy to go and ask for more info from your orig email and try and
assist you, but if you don't want any assistance, I'll just say sorry
that you had a bad experience and leave it at that.

kevin

[Chris Murphy]

On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:04 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> I was unable to choose extra packages after choosing a de without wiping my chosen de.

I don't understand this. From the F20 DVD installer > Software Selection > Gnome Desktop selected by default. If I check everything under Add-Ons, then click on KDE, pretty much every Add-On in common is selected. For some odd reason LibreOffice isn't, could be a legit bug. If I check everything, then go back to Gnome Desktop, everything is still selected there. I go back and forth between DE's and all add-ons are checked, so it seems like Add-On selection is persistent (sticky) between DE choices.
> After the install, while it did recognize my ASUS N18 wireless usb nic, and load the right driver, it would only load 1 internet page or do only 1 yum install without a reboot.

I'll answer the question I wish you had asked (classic politician's strategy):

It's well understood that wireless is something of a CF on linux in general. So I'd say this is both "Not News" and "yes that sucks." You're probably best off wired for starters to get kernel, wpa_supplicant, NetworkManager and their dependencies updated.
> It is good that the networking comes up on boot, however it would be nice, when the system encountered a nfs mount in the fstab, it would mount them before completing the boot process.

This might be better setup with systemd.mount or systemd.automount than with fstab so that you can specify that networking be pulled in before trying to do the mount. Maybe someone could argue that systemd-fstab-generator should be creating .mount units this way automatically from fstab when the filesystem is NFS, but I don't know a lot about this and is a question for a systemd-devel search.
> After installing firefox, which took 2 attempts, it took 4 reboots to install 4 addons.
>
> The webserver, while it does start on boot up leaves a lot to be desired for speed of loading even after being woke up.
>
> First thing I did was disable selinux and firewalld. I find that they are more pita than they are worth for a server that does not connect to the internet that often.
>
> I tested the system with the kde spin and it worked as expected.
>
> After screwing around for 2 days, I am convinced more of the adage 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Glad to know everything is working now.

Chris Murphy

[Bill Davidsen]

Chris Murphy wrote:
> I'll answer the question I wish you had asked (classic politician's
> strategy):
>
> It's well understood that wireless is something of a CF on linux in general.
> So I'd say this is both "Not News" and "yes that sucks." You're probably best
> off wired for starters to get kernel, wpa_supplicant, NetworkManager and
> their dependencies updated.
> > It is good that the networking comes up on boot, however it would be nice,
> > when the system encountered a nfs mount in the fstab, it would mount them
> > before completing the boot process.

Absolutely true, but honestly I would settle for an option in fstab to manually 
provide that info. Just as there is a "noauto" option, an option use-net would 
be good, and if something is to be mounted on another filesystem, that should be 
delayed, not errored out.
> This might be better setup with systemd.mount or systemd.automount than with
> fstab so that you can specify that networking be pulled in before trying to
> do the mount. Maybe someone could argue that systemd-fstab-generator should
> be creating .mount units this way automatically from fstab when the
> filesystem is NFS, but I don't know a lot about this and is a question for a
> systemd-devel search.

Me, I'll argue that the mounts should all be in fstab and work. I'm not against 
options to clarify what I expect, but having to edit a bunch of files really 
makes administration complex, which is a synonym for error-prone. I have long 
felt that Fedora distro sometimes fails to consider complexity, because 
developers deal with one environment and aren't in the real world, with Windows, 
AIX, HP-UX, IOS, and maybe firewalls using BSD. Simple and easy to use have a 
real impact on TCO for the typical mixed bag of a corporate environment.
> Glad to know everything is working now.
>
> Chris Murphy

[Tom H]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Bill Davidsen  wrote:
> Absolutely true, but honestly I would settle for an option in fstab to
> manually provide that info. Just as there is a "noauto" option, an option
> use-net would be good, and if something is to be mounted on another
> filesystem, that should be delayed, not errored out.

There's no need for "use-net" because "_netdev" exists.