Anybody visit the Fedora Core home page lately? What doe you think about the new layout? Does anyone know where links for the lists, Fedora Forums, and bugzilla went?
On Friday 23 December 2005 1:32 pm, Kam Leo wrote:
Anybody visit the Fedora Core home page lately? What doe you think about the new layout? Does anyone know where links for the lists, Fedora Forums, and bugzilla went?
Interesting - seems rather sparse... Maybe it's a work in progress?
Claude Jones wrote:
On Friday 23 December 2005 1:32 pm, Kam Leo wrote:
Anybody visit the Fedora Core home page lately? What doe you think about the new layout? Does anyone know where links for the lists, Fedora Forums, and bugzilla went?
Interesting - seems rather sparse... Maybe it's a work in progress?
Yes it is. Its a intermediate cleanup since we are moving more of the infrastructure into http://fedoraproject.org. The plan ahead is to have http://fedoraproject.org as the primary website which is currently entirely a wiki. The exact details are still being discussed in the fedora-websites-list .
On 12/23/05, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@redhat.com wrote:
Claude Jones wrote:
On Friday 23 December 2005 1:32 pm, Kam Leo wrote:
Anybody visit the Fedora Core home page lately? What doe you think about the new layout? Does anyone know where links for the lists, Fedora Forums, and bugzilla went?
Interesting - seems rather sparse... Maybe it's a work in progress?
Yes it is. Its a intermediate cleanup since we are moving more of the infrastructure into http://fedoraproject.org. The plan ahead is to have http://fedoraproject.org as the primary website which is currently entirely a wiki. The exact details are still being discussed in the fedora-websites-list .
-- Rahul
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only) and IMHO clumsy (there is no need to break the old links). It would be very informational and open if a note about the change was placed on the main page so that visitors and new users are not left in the dark.
Hi
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only) and IMHO clumsy (there is no need to break the old links).
fedora-websites-list is a open mailing list with a public archive. How is that stealthy?. If you find broken links post to the fedora-websites-list or join #fedora-websites and ask or file bug report against fedora infrastructure in http://bugzilla.redhat.com.
It would be very informational and open if a note about the change was placed on the main page so that visitors and new users are not left in the dark.
We havent decided anything yet concrete yet. What do we want there as note?
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership? The public discussion is only available to members of the list. That in my opinion pretty much closes off public access.
Hi
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
How do you want to be informed?
The public discussion is only available to members of the list.
No its a public archive. Its listed in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate. Google knows about it.
That in my opinion pretty much closes off public access.
Again its a open list. Anyone can subscribe and post there.
On 12/23/05, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@redhat.com wrote:
Hi
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
How do you want to be informed?
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
The public discussion is only available to members of the list.
No its a public archive. Its listed in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate. Google knows about it.
There's no need for me to Google about it. You just informed me.
That in my opinion pretty much closes off public access.
Again its a open list. Anyone can subscribe and post there.
I may not have expressed myself very clearly. The main Fedora Core home page has been and currently is http://fedora.redhat.com. Just do a Google search for "Fedora Core". My comment about the change being stealthy is that the site has been significantly altered. There is nothing on the main page or in either "News" or "About" regarding the change to the site. Only people who know about the change are those of the fedora-website-list which is a back channel communications link, much like this list. I agree, the archives are public, but it is not highly visible. What query string would you use in Google to find this particular discussion? The change is clumsy because a simple notice and link would have handled the mysterious loss of content.
-- Rahul
Hi
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
We havent made the decision yet. We are *still* discussing it. http://fedoraproject.org does not have all of the infrastructure necessary for a complete transition at this point and is maintained by volunteers. Again all of the discussion in the archives and is available in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites. The schedule is available from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule
The entire list of infrastructure details is available from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure. You can also help by signing up and doing things.
I may not have expressed myself very clearly. The main Fedora Core home page has been and currently is http://fedora.redhat.com. Just do a Google search for "Fedora Core". My comment about the change being stealthy is that the site has been significantly altered. There is nothing on the main page or in either "News" or "About" regarding the change to the site.
The changes are work in progress. We havent decided on anything yet. The News page links to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate. It has the fedora-websites-list.
Let me trace back the history of this change a bit.
I initiated the discussion in fedora-docs list. See https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-October/msg00111.html on creating a new mailing list for interactions about the website which had previous been discussed in fedora-docs and fedora-marketing list and someone in private mails among web administrators of the websites to make it open and transparent to the community. The archives are available. It was also later announced on the fedora-marketing list
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November/msg00006...
Fedora marketing list is where the discussion about a potential transition to fedoraproject.org happened the whole point of which is to enable more of the community to participate through the wiki among other things.
Only people who know about the change are those of the fedora-website-list which is a back channel communications link, much like this list. I agree, the archives are public, but it is not highly visible. What query string would you use in Google to find this particular discussion?
Try "Fedora websites"?. Its the first hit.
The change is clumsy because a simple notice and link would have handled the mysterious loss of content.
The work was done by volunteers. They might not have done a perfect job. You can file bug reports (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites) or post to the fedora-websites list instead of calling changes stealthy and club members only. I find that kind of language unnecessarily hostile and misleading.
Look I care about doing things transparently as much as possible. I am working on several such things to enable it. For example coordinating with the fedoranews.org administrator. http://www.livejournal.com/users/rahulsundaram/1823.html (feeds from http://fedoraproject.org/people) to have a regular flow of news of all Fedora related information in a central place which In have proposed to feed into news.fedoraproject.org and which will automatically show up in the frontpage of http://fedoraproject.org. fedoranews.org site is being redesigned to make that happen. see http://fedoranews.org/cms for a preview of that. Such things dont happen in a day. We do a lot of work behind the scenes for the community at large to be kept informed. I spend several hours editing the wiki on a daily basis to make changes that provides information to the community. see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RecentChanges. I have worked on the release notes extensively and triage bugs when I can. I request developers all the time to post information to the lists and thats why I am answering mails on this list and fedora forums all through the night on a weekend even though my day job has nothing to do with Fedora. How about less hostility in return for that?. Fair deal?
On 12/23/05, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@redhat.com wrote:
Hi
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
We havent made the decision yet. We are *still* discussing it. http://fedoraproject.org does not have all of the infrastructure necessary for a complete transition at this point and is maintained by volunteers. Again all of the discussion in the archives and is available in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites. The schedule is available from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule
The entire list of infrastructure details is available from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure. You can also help by signing up and doing things.
I may not have expressed myself very clearly. The main Fedora Core home page has been and currently is http://fedora.redhat.com. Just do a Google search for "Fedora Core". My comment about the change being stealthy is that the site has been significantly altered. There is nothing on the main page or in either "News" or "About" regarding the change to the site.
The changes are work in progress. We havent decided on anything yet. The News page links to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate. It has the fedora-websites-list.
Let me trace back the history of this change a bit.
I initiated the discussion in fedora-docs list. See https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-October/msg00111.html on creating a new mailing list for interactions about the website which had previous been discussed in fedora-docs and fedora-marketing list and someone in private mails among web administrators of the websites to make it open and transparent to the community. The archives are available. It was also later announced on the fedora-marketing list
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November/msg00006...
Fedora marketing list is where the discussion about a potential transition to fedoraproject.org happened the whole point of which is to enable more of the community to participate through the wiki among other things.
Only people who know about the change are those of the fedora-website-list which is a back channel communications link, much like this list. I agree, the archives are public, but it is not highly visible. What query string would you use in Google to find this particular discussion?
Try "Fedora websites"?. Its the first hit.
The change is clumsy because a simple notice and link would have handled the mysterious loss of content.
The work was done by volunteers. They might not have done a perfect job. You can file bug reports (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites) or post to the fedora-websites list instead of calling changes stealthy and club members only. I find that kind of language unnecessarily hostile and misleading.
Look I care about doing things transparently as much as possible. I am working on several such things to enable it. For example coordinating with the fedoranews.org administrator. http://www.livejournal.com/users/rahulsundaram/1823.html (feeds from http://fedoraproject.org/people) to have a regular flow of news of all Fedora related information in a central place which In have proposed to feed into news.fedoraproject.org and which will automatically show up in the frontpage of http://fedoraproject.org. fedoranews.org site is being redesigned to make that happen. see http://fedoranews.org/cms for a preview of that. Such things dont happen in a day. We do a lot of work behind the scenes for the community at large to be kept informed. I spend several hours editing the wiki on a daily basis to make changes that provides information to the community. see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RecentChanges. I have worked on the release notes extensively and triage bugs when I can. I request developers all the time to post information to the lists and thats why I am answering mails on this list and fedora forums all through the night on a weekend even though my day job has nothing to do with Fedora. How about less hostility in return for that?. Fair deal?
-- Rahul
My sincerest apologies if my ramblings come across as hostile. I am a Fedora fan, really I am. My concern is that the public face for Fedora Core, http://fedora.redhat.com, has been marginalized (buzzword: depricated) but its replacement is not ready to step up to the plate. If the decision has not been made to replace the site why hobble it? The site could have been left pretty much alone until a replacement was ready. Why the rush? FC5 isn't due until the middle of next year.
Hi
My sincerest apologies if my ramblings come across as hostile. I am a Fedora fan, really I am. My concern is that the public face for Fedora Core, http://fedora.redhat.com, has been marginalized (buzzword: depricated) but its replacement is not ready to step up to the plate. If the decision has not been made to replace the site why hobble it? The site could have been left pretty much alone until a replacement was ready. Why the rush? FC5 isn't due until the middle of next year.
Now thats a good question. There was a LOT of irrelevant, outdated and poorly worded content in the website that was being (mis) quoted in all kinds of places. The current one though its sparse looks much better in relative terms since the content actually in the links are clean and taking into account that its work in progress. You can look into the websites cvs commits list for older content if you are really curious about the changes. If you think you can help add more content and rework it as necessary and you think thats important I appreciate that interest. Step up and do the work. There is always more room for contributors. Work on design, content, discuss changes in fedora-websites-list, talk in #fedora-websites, file bugs and so on.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Alert: Australian vernacular follows.
Hi
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
We havent made the decision yet.
Bullshit.
Making changes means a decision has been made.
Changing a website is _always_ problematic and will upset users with broken links, content they can't find and so on.
Actually deleting content with no replacement is plain barking stupidity.
As for the list archives, I can't actually check what access is available right now, but "club members only" is a fair description of any list where someone has to spend time and effort to subscribe and then unsubscribe. It's more than I will do to ask a simple question.
It's pretty certain that by sending email to this list I expose my email address to spammers, even before my missive is archived, so for me the time I spend to ask a question might extend to getting a new email address for the occasion.
John Summerfied wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Alert: Australian vernacular follows.
Hi
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
We havent made the decision yet.
Bullshit.
Making changes means a decision has been made.
As someone who is involved in the effort, I can guarantee you that no decision has been made yet.
Changing a website is _always_ problematic and will upset users with broken links, content they can't find and so on.
Actually deleting content with no replacement is plain barking stupidity.
Feel free to file bug reports. I didnt claim it was a perfect job. You can get involved and help instead of name calling.
As for the list archives, I can't actually check what access is available right now, but "club members only" is a fair description of any list where someone has to spend time and effort to subscribe and then unsubscribe. It's more than I will do to ask a simple question.
You dont have to subscribe to read the archives.
On 12/23/05, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@redhat.com wrote:Hi
[snip]
Somewhere on the http://fedora.redhat.com home page should be placed a notice of the transition to FedoraProject.org. (A link would be a nice touch.) If visitors to the old site cannot find what they're searching for they can go to the new site. No need to google.
[snip]
We havent made the decision yet. We are *still* discussing it.
http://fedoraproject.org does not have all of the infrastructure necessary for a complete transition at this point and is maintained by volunteers. Again all of the discussion in the archives and is available in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites. The schedule is available from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule
[snip]
I am interested in contributing to Fedora some how, the Webites/Schedule page seems sparse on tasks and details however.
Please advise. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins.
Hi
I am interested in contributing to Fedora some how, the Webites/Schedule page seems sparse on tasks and details however.
Join fedora-websites-list and ask. We can probably work out something. Other areas: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpWanted
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
I am interested in contributing to Fedora some how, the Webites/Schedule page seems sparse on tasks and details however.
Please advise.
As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins.
The schedule page is sparse because the Websites team as an organized effort is very young. We'll be having a first IRC meeting in January, after which I think more things will start to stack up. We welcome constructive suggestions on the fedora-websites-list mailing list.
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November/msg00006...
(As a side note, what ever happened to the reminder mails about all the lists? Once a month is a bit of overkill, but once a couple months might be good).
The public discussion is only available to members of the list.
Oh? I'm not a member and the archives work for me.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/
Hi
(As a side note, what ever happened to the reminder mails about all the lists? Once a month is a bit of overkill, but once a couple months might be good).
Now thats a good question. Maybe some people complained about it. I dont know. Can you file a bug report on that? . http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November/msg00006...
(As a side note, what ever happened to the reminder mails about all the lists? Once a month is a bit of overkill, but once a couple months might be good).
The public discussion is only available to members of the list.
Oh? I'm not a member and the archives work for me.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/
-- William Hooper
Yes, if one knew that was the place to look. Look at this from the perspective of a visitor/first time Fedora Core user. How do they get from http://fedora.redhat.com to https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/?
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
Yes, if one knew that was the place to look. Look at this from the perspective of a visitor/first time Fedora Core user. How do they get from http://fedora.redhat.com to https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/?
Why would a first time Fedora Core user want to? The fedora-websites-list came up in this discussion because of your complaint that the changes were "kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)".
I would assume a new user would want to hit the download link (http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/), then browse through the installation guide (http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/install.html) while they were waiting for the images to load. Then they would see the "Get Help If You Need It" section if they needed help. That leads to a page (http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/) with all the Forums, IRC channels, and mailing lists.
Could it be better? Sure, but it is a work in progress. Is all the info there if you look around? It appears to be so far.
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
Yes, if one knew that was the place to look. Look at this from the perspective of a visitor/first time Fedora Core user. How do they get from http://fedora.redhat.com to https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/?
For what its worth we discussed this in the list and a note has been added to the frontpage. See http://fedora.redhat.com/
At 5:48 PM +0530 12/26/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
Yes, if one knew that was the place to look. Look at this from the perspective of a visitor/first time Fedora Core user. How do they get from http://fedora.redhat.com to https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/?
For what its worth we discussed this in the list and a note has been added to the frontpage. See http://fedora.redhat.com/
That should be a big help. Before that it just looked like something bad had happened to the Fedora project. ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' mailto:tonynelson@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November/msg00006...
Great. How many current and prospective Fedora fans does that reach?
On Tuesday 27 December 2005 19:18, John Summerfied wrote:
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November /msg00006.html
Great. How many current and prospective Fedora fans does that reach?
An educated guess, based on 71 years of observing, would be maybe 0.00003% of zip. Get real, if you want folks to know about something, then by damn post it to the list thats got the circulation, not to some list where the main point is to invent a new buzzword_du_jour. Geez, the marketing numbskulls we have to put up with, boggles the mind...
Gene Heskett wrote:
On Tuesday 27 December 2005 19:18, John Summerfied wrote:
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
>fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-November /msg00006.html
Great. How many current and prospective Fedora fans does that reach?
An educated guess, based on 71 years of observing, would be maybe 0.00003% of zip. Get real, if you want folks to know about something, then by damn post it to the list thats got the circulation, not to some list where the main point is to invent a new buzzword_du_jour. Geez, the marketing numbskulls we have to put up with, boggles the mind...
If you two are going to troll, do it elsewhere.
We aren't out to create a list that every user on the planet is meant to sign up for and use. It, like most of the other Fedora lists, is primarily for relevant developer discussion. People who are motivated enough to provide feedback can find the list the same way as all of the other lists are found, and signing up for the list is not a big request. If it were, so many people wouldn't already to it. As far as notifying users of the changes, yes, we needed to do more, and we've taken further steps now. Some of the people who maintain the sites, such as myself, do watch for user feedback on this list and in other places. It isn't hard to reach us.
As far as bashing the Marketing team, that is completely unwarranted. It is a small team of volunteers who are chasing developments to get things done. If you think you can make a positive contribution, you're welcome to join. If you think that the efforts of our team members are unsatisfactory, I'm sorry you feel that way, but being insulting and doing nothing isn't going to accomplish anything.
On Tuesday 27 December 2005 21:00, Patrick Barnes wrote:
Gene Heskett wrote:
On Tuesday 27 December 2005 19:18, John Summerfied wrote:
William Hooper wrote:
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
>The exact details are still being discussed in the > >>fedora-websites-list . > >The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers > only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership?
All the Redhat (and Fedora) mailing lists are still listed in the same place: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
The creation of the list was announced on the fedora-marketing list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-Novem ber /msg00006.html
Great. How many current and prospective Fedora fans does that reach?
An educated guess, based on 71 years of observing, would be maybe 0.00003% of zip. Get real, if you want folks to know about something, then by damn post it to the list thats got the circulation, not to some list where the main point is to invent a new buzzword_du_jour. Geez, the marketing numbskulls we have to put up with, boggles the mind...
If you two are going to troll, do it elsewhere.
I had no intention of being a 'troll' as you call it. I was calling attention to the apparent lack of publicity however.
We aren't out to create a list that every user on the planet is meant to sign up for and use. It, like most of the other Fedora lists, is primarily for relevant developer discussion. People who are motivated enough to provide feedback can find the list the same way as all of the other lists are found, and signing up for the list is not a big request. If it were, so many people wouldn't already to it. As far as notifying users of the changes, yes, we needed to do more, and we've taken further steps now. Some of the people who maintain the sites, such as myself, do watch for user feedback on this list and in other places. It isn't hard to reach us.
As far as bashing the Marketing team, that is completely unwarranted. It is a small team of volunteers who are chasing developments to get things done. If you think you can make a positive contribution, you're welcome to join. If you think that the efforts of our team members are unsatisfactory, I'm sorry you feel that way, but being insulting and doing nothing isn't going to accomplish anything.
Well, we did get a response, and a positive one at that. As for the implied insult, I wasn't trying to be personal about it Patrick. My aplogies if you took it that way. What I was pointing out was the inconguity of publishing the info on a list with what, 50 subscribers?
End of thread (I hope)
-- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64@n-man.com
Hi
Well, we did get a response, and a positive one at that. As for the implied insult, I wasn't trying to be personal about it Patrick. My aplogies if you took it that way. What I was pointing out was the inconguity of publishing the info on a list with what, 50 subscribers?
End of thread (I hope)
So read the frontpage. http://fedora.redhat.com which has pointers if you really want to join. Rest of them dont care and thats fine. discussions happen in seperate mailing lists created for such purposes. No suprise there.
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 20:46 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
Well, we did get a response, and a positive one at that. As for the implied insult, I wasn't trying to be personal about it Patrick. My aplogies if you took it that way. What I was pointing out was the inconguity of publishing the info on a list with what, 50 subscribers?
End of thread (I hope)
So read the frontpage. http://fedora.redhat.com which has pointers if you really want to join. Rest of them dont care and thats fine. discussions happen in seperate mailing lists created for such purposes. No suprise there.
---- thanks for the efforts - I think you guys are doing a great job...despite the noise by a few that find it easy to sit back and criticize.
Craig
Kam Leo wrote:
On 12/23/05, William Hooper whooperhsd3@earthlink.net wrote:
Kam Leo wrote: [snip]
The exact details are still being discussed in the
fedora-websites-list .
The way this is being handled is kind of stealthy (clubmembers only)
How is a publicly archived and open to all subscribers mailing list "clubmembers only"?
-- William Hooper
If the links have been removed how does one get informed about the list or membership? The public discussion is only available to members of the list. That in my opinion pretty much closes off public access.
I guess it is a club then. Or is it a membership to a mailing list. Free virtual beer all around.
You have to realize the possibilities of getting postings where someone is selling goth items on ebay or something similar. To reduce the chances for hit and run postings, membership is a better method in my view. If you want a reply back on an issue or enjoy reading varied issues both poitive and negative from email, membership requirements are even more worthwhile.
I don't care much for BB or for forums myself. Of course you can sign up for either if you choose to instead of signing up for a public mailing list. I signed up for the forum and probably had less than 30 postings
-
Arthur Pemberton -
Claude Jones -
Craig White -
Gene Heskett -
Jim Cornette -
John Summerfield -
Kam Leo -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Rahul Sundaram -
Tony Nelson -
William Hooper