So what is the solution ?
I tried fedora 16, fedora 18, fedora 19 (gnome3), all give the same result a \Phi is shown when a \Delta should be displayed.
Thank.
On 11/29/13 08:36, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 29 November 2013, Ed Greshko sent:
One interesting thing I discovered, at least on my F19 system, is if I highlight (copy) the Phi and then paste it into a terminal the resulting character is a delta.
That seriously points to it being a broken font, then.
What's on the page is an instruction to print character number whatever. Depending on what's in the font, will be what you see.
If you copy and paste the text, you're copying the data about which (numbered) characters are there. It'd take something that copies the data, plus the formatting, and re-applies the same formatting (and therefor same font), for an error to be repeated.
The original poster could test that out in any editor that lets them change fonts. Type the character out several times, and change the font for each of them, separately. When you pick a broken font, it'll change what it looks like.
Agreed.... And, FWIW....
∅ = U+2205 (What I see on one system) ∆ = U+2206 (What I see on a working system and what it is when looking at the bits)
-- Getting tired of non-Fedora discussions and self-serving posts -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
=========================================================================== Patrick DUPRÉ                 | | email: pdupre@gmx.com Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | | Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale      | | Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12          | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann         | | 59140 Dunkerque, France ===========================================================================
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 15:32 +0100, Patrick Dupre wrote:
So what is the solution ?
I tried fedora 16, fedora 18, fedora 19 (gnome3), all give the same result a \Phi is shown when a \Delta should be displayed.
Thank.
I've figured it out. I had wine-symbol-fonts installed, which provides the "MS Symbol" font. After removing it, evince uses "Standard Symbols L" rather than "MS Symbol", which shows a \Delta rather than a \Phi.
Jonathan
On 12/1/2013 12:11 PM, poma wrote:
On 01.12.2013 15:32, Patrick Dupre wrote:
So what is the solution ?
Stop breaking a thread! Stop top-posting! Stop spamming us with your address, telephone and fax numbers!
Bee awesome.:!
poma
Two out of three.
1) He did top post 2) He did include his signature
3) Threading worked for me.
On 12-1-13 13:20:49 David wrote:
On 12/1/2013 12:11 PM, poma wrote:
On 01.12.2013 15:32, Patrick Dupre wrote:
So what is the solution ?
Stop breaking a thread! Stop top-posting! Stop spamming us with your address, telephone and fax numbers!
Two out of three.
He did top post
He did include his signature
Threading worked for me.
It's an illusion that your client creates due to the settings you have chosen. (His message appears in this thread because the subject is the same. It appears according to sent date and time. This will often create the wrong position in a thread.) His message doesn't contain the necessary headers to do proper threading. In particular, there is no In-Reply-To or References header in his message. Indeed, your message correctly includes these headers, but fails to reference his message, Message-ID: 20131201143218.102640@gmx.com. Your own client doesn't know Patrick's message is part of this thread.
On 12/1/2013 4:53 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 13:20:49 David wrote:
On 12/1/2013 12:11 PM, poma wrote:
On 01.12.2013 15:32, Patrick Dupre wrote:
So what is the solution ?
Stop breaking a thread! Stop top-posting! Stop spamming us with your address, telephone and fax numbers!
Two out of three.
He did top post
He did include his signature
Threading worked for me.
It's an illusion that your client creates due to the settings you have chosen. (His message appears in this thread because the subject is the same. It appears according to sent date and time. This will often create the wrong position in a thread.) His message doesn't contain the necessary headers to do proper threading. In particular, there is no In-Reply-To or References header in his message. Indeed, your message correctly includes these headers, but fails to reference his message, Message-ID: 20131201143218.102640@gmx.com. Your own client doesn't know Patrick's message is part of this thread.
Hi Gary,
That has been discussed to the ends of the universe. He and several others and I use the same Mozilla Thunderbird email client. It works for me and not them. After (limited time and skills here) the only obvious difference that I can see is that 'they' use the Fedora packaged Thunderbird and I do not. Does this make a difference? How the heck would I know? I'm the dummy. :-)
On 12-1-13 17:03:07 David wrote:
That has been discussed to the ends of the universe. He and several others and I use the same Mozilla Thunderbird email client. It works for me and not them.
I use Kmail and I also set my threading options to try to approximate threading by paying attention to the Subject header value, date, and time. This makes these broken messages sort into the thread I'm reading. But...
Without the required headers, there is no way to do proper threading. It can only come close using Subject header value, date, and time.
After (limited time and skills here) the only obvious difference that I can see is that 'they' use the Fedora packaged Thunderbird and I do not. Does this make a difference?
Almost certainly not. It is a function of the client settings. Like I said, you have told your client to use Subject header value, date, and time to do threading *if* the correct headers are not supplied.
Here's a look at Patrick's headers:
First I snip out the headers supplied by the servers that received his message. Then we come to what his message actually supplied:
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:32:17 +0100 From: "Patrick Dupre" pdupre@gmx.com Message-ID: 20131201143218.102640@gmx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: evince To: "Community support for Fedora users" users@lists.fedoraproject.org X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 X-GMX-UID: JS3pcnxJeSEqJ2ux8H0hYYV+IGRvb0CV
Notice that his message didn't include In-Reply-To or References headers. BY DEFINITION, this message is a brand new thread. It doesn't refer to any previous message. Patrick broke the thread.
In contrast, here are the headers from the message you wrote and that I am replying to:
Message-ID: 529BB21B.2080601@gmail.com Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 17:03:07 -0500 From: David dgboles@gmail.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: evince References: 20131201143218.102640@gmx.com 529B6DDA.2090701@gmail.com 529B7E01.5050206@gmail.com 3476548.tqg5ruCP5g@vfr In-Reply-To: 3476548.tqg5ruCP5g@vfr X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Notice that your message properly refers to mine (in its In-Reply-To header) as what you are replying to and adds all of the other messages in this "mini-thread" that Patrick started (in its References header). But there are many more messages in the thread you thought was here. They are missing because Patrick broke the thread with his message.
Without proper headers, threading is impossible. The same Subject header value is *not* a thread identifier. Only message IDs can be used for that.
How the heck would I know? I'm the dummy. :-)
Two ways to know:
1. Set your client to thread only using proper message headers and to ignore the Subject header value.
2. Examine the headers.
As for me, I don't mind the occasional broken thread message so I tell my client to sort by Subject header value, date, and time, *if* the proper headers are missing. I find this works well for me on mailing lists. I never do this at my day job.
But this topic got my attention. It seems that many others set their clients with similar sorting criteria, but do not know the implications.
On 12-1-13 17:39:50 Garry T. Williams wrote:
Without the required headers, there is no way to do proper threading. It can only come close using Subject header value, date, and time.
By the way, this is spelled out in RFC-2822. See
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt
Also, by the way, Microsoft ignores this RFC in its clients. :-(
On 12/1/2013 5:48 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 17:39:50 Garry T. Williams wrote:
Without the required headers, there is no way to do proper threading. It can only come close using Subject header value, date, and time.
By the way, this is spelled out in RFC-2822. See
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txtAlso, by the way, Microsoft ignores this RFC in its clients. :-(
My client comes from Mozilla. So they ignore this crap too? Good for them.
On 12-1-13 19:05:12 David wrote:
On 12/1/2013 5:48 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 17:39:50 Garry T. Williams wrote: Also, by the way, Microsoft ignores this RFC in its clients. :-(
My client comes from Mozilla. So they ignore this crap too? Good for them.
Actually, your client doesn't ignore the RFC. It is properly (according to RFC 2822) adding the correct headers to maintain the thread.
Patrick's Web mail client is breaking the thread, ignoring the RFC.
On 12/1/2013 7:16 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 19:05:12 David wrote:
On 12/1/2013 5:48 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 17:39:50 Garry T. Williams wrote: Also, by the way, Microsoft ignores this RFC in its clients. :-(
My client comes from Mozilla. So they ignore this crap too? Good for them.
Actually, your client doesn't ignore the RFC. It is properly (according to RFC 2822) adding the correct headers to maintain the thread.
Patrick's Web mail client is breaking the thread, ignoring the RFC.
So you are telling me that all of this time, while I have been dodging flack because mine works and theirs does not, that 'mine' works and theirs' does not? Really? Really?
Please tell them. :-)
BTW. This is where poma should jump in and tell us that this is not important and OT.
On 12-1-13 19:31:47 David wrote:
So you are telling me that all of this time, while I have been dodging flack because mine works and theirs does not, that 'mine' works and theirs' does not? Really? Really?
Please tell them. :-)
Actually, this is quite simple. An E-mail message that includes the proper headers preserves the thread or conversation. One that does not doesn't.
On 12/1/2013 5:39 PM, Garry T. Williams wrote:
On 12-1-13 17:03:07 David wrote:
That has been discussed to the ends of the universe. He and several others and I use the same Mozilla Thunderbird email client. It works for me and not them.
I use Kmail and I also set my threading options to try to approximate threading by paying attention to the Subject header value, date, and time. This makes these broken messages sort into the thread I'm reading. But...
Without the required headers, there is no way to do proper threading. It can only come close using Subject header value, date, and time.
After (limited time and skills here) the only obvious difference that I can see is that 'they' use the Fedora packaged Thunderbird and I do not. Does this make a difference?
Almost certainly not. It is a function of the client settings. Like I said, you have told your client to use Subject header value, date, and time to do threading *if* the correct headers are not supplied.
Here's a look at Patrick's headers:
First I snip out the headers supplied by the servers that received his message. Then we come to what his message actually supplied:
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:32:17 +0100 From: "Patrick Dupre" <pdupre@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20131201143218.102640@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: evince To: "Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org> X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 X-GMX-UID: JS3pcnxJeSEqJ2ux8H0hYYV+IGRvb0CVNotice that his message didn't include In-Reply-To or References headers. BY DEFINITION, this message is a brand new thread. It doesn't refer to any previous message. Patrick broke the thread.
In contrast, here are the headers from the message you wrote and that I am replying to:
Message-ID: <529BB21B.2080601@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 17:03:07 -0500 From: David <dgboles@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: evince References: <20131201143218.102640@gmx.com> <529B6DDA.2090701@gmail.com> <529B7E01.5050206@gmail.com> <3476548.tqg5ruCP5g@vfr> In-Reply-To: <3476548.tqg5ruCP5g@vfr> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6Notice that your message properly refers to mine (in its In-Reply-To header) as what you are replying to and adds all of the other messages in this "mini-thread" that Patrick started (in its References header). But there are many more messages in the thread you thought was here. They are missing because Patrick broke the thread with his message.
Without proper headers, threading is impossible. The same Subject header value is *not* a thread identifier. Only message IDs can be used for that.
How the heck would I know? I'm the dummy. :-)
Two ways to know:
- Set your client to thread only using proper message headers and to
ignore the Subject header value.
- Examine the headers.
As for me, I don't mind the occasional broken thread message so I tell my client to sort by Subject header value, date, and time, *if* the proper headers are missing. I find this works well for me on mailing lists. I never do this at my day job.
But this topic got my attention. It seems that many others set their clients with similar sorting criteria, but do not know the implications.
Now that is interesting. I will certainly look into that when I have the time.
Else? 'The Dummy's System' appears to work for now. Which I would think is what us 'average dummy users' want. Something that works without smoke, mirrors, spells and incantations. :-)
On 2 December 2013 00:03, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
On 12-1-13 17:03:07 David wrote:
That has been discussed to the ends of the universe. He and several
Agreed, I didn't think Patrick's email at all warranted complaint except for the purposes of stirring this up again. Anyone with advice on making sure the wine MS symbols fount gets ignored by evince will be making a bigger contribution than all of us discussing this combined.
Else? 'The Dummy's System' appears to work for now. Which I would think is what us 'average dummy users' want. Something that works without smoke, mirrors, spells and incantations. :-)
The truth is the old system is quite simple, worked for years (decades) and involves no smoke or mirrors. It meant people could adjust subject lines mid-thread to indicate 'solved', fix a typo or indicate the topic had changed slightly. Google decided to ignore it when they put together their own webmail threading (those interested can look back to early complaints about it missing from the threading feature when they introduced it). Now a feature of their webmail (and other clients) breaks it for other people too. A few people have said how difficult it would be to work out if the subject change was sufficient to start a new thread, the answer is simply, it's never. A reply to a thread is part of that thread, a new email is a new email. If that isn't straightforward I don't know what is. But now we have a situation where threading may or may not work and if you change a title it will certainly break it for *someone*.
-
David -
Garry Williams -
Ian Malone -
Jonathan Dieter -
Patrick Dupre -
poma