Point taken; I intended to keep out of it, but I found it impossible to be silent on that last remark. You're right, this has gotten way off topic. This thread should end.
-----Original Message----- From: Ian Malone [mailto:ibm21@cam.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:40 PM To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Our (US) $s at work.
Callahan, Michael wrote:
Let's say that those whom you "understand" got their own country (or countries) and had achieved all of their political and social aims. What would that world be like? I would like to understand your understanding of these people.
If you had to live there or in America, what would be your choice, and
why?
And, more importantly for our purposes, what would be their needs wrt FC5?
(and is any one else finding this tedious?)
-- imalone
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Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
Now think of what this will probably mean for all the "high powered" Windows 2003 servers out there that the "smart IT managers" have installed on their huge server farms. I bet it requires them all to be rebooted for this one wee tiny fix. I just gotta snort with laughter.
(And for what it is worth - why not simply adopt DST all year long? And of course, the way to do that is leave noon for a time zone with the Sun within a half hour of the zenith position and let the schools or work places shift their start times and stop times. But, that's too logical.)
{^_-} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Callahan, Michael" MichaelCallahan@templeinland.com
Point taken; I intended to keep out of it, but I found it impossible to be silent on that last remark. You're right, this has gotten way off topic. This thread should end.
-----Original Message----- From: Ian Malone [mailto:ibm21@cam.ac.uk]
Callahan, Michael wrote:
Let's say that those whom you "understand" got their own country (or countries) and had achieved all of their political and social aims. What would that world be like? I would like to understand your understanding of these people.
If you had to live there or in America, what would be your choice, and
why?
And, more importantly for our purposes, what would be their needs wrt FC5?
(and is any one else finding this tedious?)
-- imalone
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
Now think of what this will probably mean for all the "high powered" Windows 2003 servers out there that the "smart IT managers"
As we both know, 'smart' doesn't always equal intelligent...
have installed on their huge server farms. I bet it requires them all to be rebooted for this one wee tiny fix. I just gotta snort with laughter.
(And for what it is worth - why not simply adopt DST all year long? And of course, the way to do that is leave noon for a time zone with the Sun within a half hour of the zenith position and let the schools or work places shift their start times and stop times. But, that's too logical.)
Apply logic? To a basicly human condition problem? That would be totally out of character for TPTB. I'd fall over from shock if that ever happened with enough regularity to get used to it.
{^_-} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Callahan, Michael" MichaelCallahan@templeinland.com
Michael Callahan? I'll have a God's Blessing, please. :-)
[...]
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 09:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
That file as you both have listed tells the system when to switch times. There are many of those files on your system, one for each official time zone area around the world.
Now think of what this will probably mean for all the "high powered" Windows 2003 servers out there that the "smart IT managers"
As we both know, 'smart' doesn't always equal intelligent...
have installed on their huge server farms. I bet it requires them all to be rebooted for this one wee tiny fix. I just gotta snort with laughter.
(And for what it is worth - why not simply adopt DST all year long? And of course, the way to do that is leave noon for a time zone with the Sun within a half hour of the zenith position and let the schools or work places shift their start times and stop times. But, that's too logical.)
Apply logic? To a basicly human condition problem? That would be totally out of character for TPTB. I'd fall over from shock if that ever happened with enough regularity to get used to it.
{^_-} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Callahan, Michael" MichaelCallahan@templeinland.com
Michael Callahan? I'll have a God's Blessing, please. :-)
[...]
-- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) 99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
On Sunday 31 July 2005 11:47, Jeff Vian wrote:
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 09:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
That file as you both have listed tells the system when to switch times. There are many of those files on your system, one for each official time zone area around the world.
Yes, but on this FC2 box, there is not to my knowledge, any mechanism for auto-updating the file. Can you elaborate on hwo this is done?
[... no Spider Robinson fans here I can see, but I'll still take the cup of God's Blessing anyway the next time I'm down at the last key with a bridge to it]
Now I have a question, Jeff Vian wrote:
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 09:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
That file as you both have listed tells the system when to switch times. There are many of those files on your system, one for each official time zone area around the world.
My file reads, "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky". Now, there are two selections in that directory, Louisville & Monticello. I have selected Louisville for my time zone. Suppose I wanted to make a copy of the Louisville file, modify it to suite my taste (bear in mind, the previous poster pointed out, the file "seems to be some compressed format") & save the file as Lexington (which is where I am actually located) in the /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky directory. How do I modify the compressed file? Or, do simply copy the Louisville file & rename it to Lexington?
Now think of what this will probably mean for all the "high powered" Windows 2003 servers out there that the "smart IT managers"
As we both know, 'smart' doesn't always equal intelligent...
have installed on their huge server farms. I bet it requires them all to be rebooted for this one wee tiny fix. I just gotta snort with laughter.
(And for what it is worth - why not simply adopt DST all year long? And of course, the way to do that is leave noon for a time zone with the Sun within a half hour of the zenith position and let the schools or work places shift their start times and stop times. But, that's too logical.)
Apply logic? To a basicly human condition problem? That would be totally out of character for TPTB. I'd fall over from shock if that ever happened with enough regularity to get used to it.
{^_-} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Callahan, Michael" MichaelCallahan@templeinland.com
Michael Callahan? I'll have a God's Blessing, please. :-)
[...]
-- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) 99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
taharka
Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 13:02 -0400, taharka wrote:
Now I have a question, Jeff Vian wrote:
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 09:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
That file as you both have listed tells the system when to switch times. There are many of those files on your system, one for each official time zone area around the world.
My file reads, "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky". Now, there are two selections in that directory, Louisville & Monticello. I have selected Louisville for my time zone. Suppose I wanted to make a copy of the Louisville file, modify it to suite my taste (bear in mind, the previous poster pointed out, the file "seems to be some compressed format") & save the file as Lexington (which is where I am actually located) in the /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky directory. How do I modify the compressed file? Or, do simply copy the Louisville file & rename it to Lexington?
Copying should work in your case. In the general case, where you want to create your own timezone data, see "man zic".
Paul.
From: "taharka" res00vl8@alltel.net
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
That file as you both have listed tells the system when to switch times. There are many of those files on your system, one for each official time zone area around the world.
My file reads, "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky". Now, there are two selections in that directory, Louisville & Monticello. I have selected Louisville for my time zone. Suppose I wanted to make a copy of the Louisville file, modify it to suite my taste (bear in mind, the previous poster pointed out, the file "seems to be some compressed format") & save the file as Lexington (which is where I am actually located) in the /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Kentucky directory. How do I modify the compressed file? Or, do simply copy the Louisville file & rename it to Lexington?
[root@grandpoobah /etc/mail/spamassassin]# rpm -qif /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles Name : tzdata Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 2005i Vendor: Red Hat, Inc. Release : 2 Build Date: Sat 30 Apr 2005 12:53:10 AM PDT Install Date: Mon 27 Jun 2005 01:11:29 AM PDT Build Host: decompose.build.redhat.com Group : System Environment/Base Source RPM: tzdata-2005i-2.src.rpm Size : 650572 License: GPL Signature : DSA/SHA1, Fri 20 May 2005 11:53:26 AM PDT, Key ID b44269d04f2a6fd2 Packager : Red Hat, Inc. http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla Summary : Timezone data Description : This package contains data files with rules for various timezones around the world.
So get the archive, expand the source, RTFM, and fix it. {^_^}
Jeff Vian wrote:
On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 09:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:23, jdow wrote:
Regardless of all points taken in this discussion think a moment of the humor of the whole thing, please. The repair for Linux is one file that is not even an executable. For my case it's the usr share file: "/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles"
And how would one go about fixing it?, mine (/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York) seems to be some compressed format.
This does not need fixing. When/if the date/time of the change between standard and daylight times changes, your timezone file (New York | Los Angeles | whatever) gets replaced/updated and it automagically happens at the proper time.
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
Mike
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
---- you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
You are referring to two different "you"'s. I was the first one who anwsered your question, then you got pissed at me. Craig was the second one who gave you the same answer, then you yelled at him as if he was me, repeating what I had said.
And just so you know, the most helpful people on this list are not nessacarily the native English speakers (Dalloz comes to mind). And the next time that you want me to answer a question, you can go ahead and ask in hebrew, so that you will be sure to get an answer that satisfies you.
And me and Craig and others won't have to try so hard to understand you. Or you can just appreciate them.
An extended version of the answer to your question: When American lawmakers go and change their timezones, lots of non-native english speakers write little files and put them in yum repros, so that you can download them and update your system. And I hope you don't mind a native Finnish speaker developing your next kernel.
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/156/destiny_s_child.php Destiny's Child Song Lyrics
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Mike McCarty wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
it doesn't so millions of pc have to be patched or updated.
<snip>
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
The magic that switches unix style sysems for regular to daylight saving and back is the timezone description file typically /etc/localtime which is in tzfile format.
for info on the format look at:
man 5 tzfile
for a treatment of the functions in libc that support this. and actually output the time:
man localtime
For systems where the system clock is utc/gmt (the right way to set your time imho) the tzset function derives local time from the timezone file set in your environment (which practically speaking means everyone on the machine can have a different localtime represented (or more than one).
man tzset
unix/posix time is measured as the number of seconds elapsed since 0000 utc jan 1 1970. the unix day increases by exactly 86400 second per day plus the occasional discontinious leap second to keep the unix day in sync with the earths rotation. unix time is represented in your kernel as a signed 32 bit int and all time on a posix system is fundamentaly derived from unix time.
see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
for a more complete treatment on posix time.
joelja
Mike
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40, Mike McCarty wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
If you keep your machine up to date it will know about the next crazy quirk of time legislation the same way it knows about the previous ones.
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
You are referring to two different "you"'s. I was the first one who anwsered your question, then you got pissed at me. Craig was the second one who gave you the same answer, then you yelled at him as if he was me, repeating what I had said.
First: Sorry I blew my top. Also, I should have checked my attributions more closely.
And just so you know, the most helpful people on this list are not nessacarily the native English speakers (Dalloz comes to mind). And
Never thought so.
the next time that you want me to answer a question, you can go ahead and ask in hebrew, so that you will be sure to get an answer that satisfies you.
Lest you think that I am foreign-language challenged, I speak two languages fluently (English is not my first language, though it is now my language of choice) and enough of a third that I have been mistaken for being a native speaker by native speakers on three occasions.
And me and Craig and others won't have to try so hard to understand you. Or you can just appreciate them.
The issue in this particular case was the use of the rhetorical question. It might be the sort of thing that a non-native speaker might not recognize.
An extended version of the answer to your question: When American lawmakers go and change their timezones, lots of non-native english speakers write little files and put them in yum repros, so that you can download them and update your system. And I hope you don't mind a native Finnish speaker developing your next kernel.
I don't care about that. I suspect that you have used some equipment I worked on to make phone calls long distance.
Mike
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 23:54 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
You are referring to two different "you"'s. I was the first one who anwsered your question, then you got pissed at me. Craig was the second one who gave you the same answer, then you yelled at him as if he was me, repeating what I had said.
And just so you know, the most helpful people on this list are not nessacarily the native English speakers (Dalloz comes to mind). And the next time that you want me to answer a question, you can go ahead and ask in hebrew, so that you will be sure to get an answer that satisfies you.
And me and Craig and others won't have to try so hard to understand you. Or you can just appreciate them.
An extended version of the answer to your question: When American lawmakers go and change their timezones, lots of non-native english speakers write little files and put them in yum repros, so that you can download them and update your system. And I hope you don't mind a native Finnish speaker developing your next kernel.
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/156/destiny_s_child.php Destiny's Child Song Lyrics
Thanks, Dotan
I have given up on trying to understand/communicate with Mike McCarty. He gets offended and yells at anyone who is trying to help if their answer is not the same as his.
This branch of the thread which I started by pointing out that the timezone info data is updated whenever the data changes and the update is pushed out to the update servers has really gotten him on a tangent.
Since he is easily offended and chooses to yell at people instead of carrying on a reasonable conversation I choose to no longer try and assist (although I will point out when his misinformation in some cases is misleading and not germane to the subject).
Everyone makes errors at times but as someone on this list told me quite some time ago. "Reprimand in private and *praise in public* ". He has not learned that and chooses to reprimand in public, which does not earn him very many friends.
Jeff
Jeff Vian wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 23:54 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
[hope that is enough for attributions]
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
You are referring to two different "you"'s. I was the first one who anwsered your question, then you got pissed at me. Craig was the second one who gave you the same answer, then you yelled at him as if he was me, repeating what I had said.
And just so you know, the most helpful people on this list are not nessacarily the native English speakers (Dalloz comes to mind). And the next time that you want me to answer a question, you can go ahead and ask in hebrew, so that you will be sure to get an answer that satisfies you.
And me and Craig and others won't have to try so hard to understand you. Or you can just appreciate them.
An extended version of the answer to your question: When American lawmakers go and change their timezones, lots of non-native english speakers write little files and put them in yum repros, so that you can download them and update your system. And I hope you don't mind a native Finnish speaker developing your next kernel.
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/156/destiny_s_child.php Destiny's Child Song Lyrics
Thanks, Dotan
I have given up on trying to understand/communicate with Mike McCarty.
Since I don't keep careful track of individual personalities, I don't know how many exchanges we've had.
He gets offended and yells at anyone who is trying to help if their answer is not the same as his.
Well, I'm sorry if I've created that impression. See my other message where I apologized for getting overly upset.
This branch of the thread which I started by pointing out that the timezone info data is updated whenever the data changes and the update is pushed out to the update servers has really gotten him on a tangent.
Since he is easily offended and chooses to yell at people instead of carrying on a reasonable conversation I choose to no longer try and assist (although I will point out when his misinformation in some cases is misleading and not germane to the subject).
That's your prerogative. I'm not sure I recall you attempting to assist me.
Everyone makes errors at times but as someone on this list told me quite some time ago. "Reprimand in private and *praise in public* ". He has not learned that and chooses to reprimand in public, which does not earn him very many friends.
Sorry if I've created that impression. It's not my intention.
Actually, I probably shouldn't have "contributed" to that thread. The OP's question was "How do I edit these files for myself?" I didn't know the answer.
Mike
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
He did. It will simply be yet another yum update.
You DO keep your system up to date, don't you? {^_^}
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
Ah yes, the illiterate grasshopper calling the Masters illiterate. Such fascinating projection here. It's a wonderful psychological case study.
1) You were told what file needed to be changed. 2) You were told how it was changed by those who will do the changing. 3) You were reminded that your machine DOES automatically update if you tell it to. It also updates when you do it manually. This update process WILL include the new time zone files as needed.
Were you REALLY too dense to put this all together or are you trying to be an imbecilic troll?
{O.O} This wise one wants to know.
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
I don't care about that. I suspect that you have used some equipment I worked on to make phone calls long distance.
I'll know for sure when it gets time wrong after the date for the DST time changes is changed. I'll get reminded of this fact during two periods of the year, won't I?
(If you are making humor it is best to telegraph the blow VERY clearly lest you insult people willing to insult back. I'm feeling peckish today so I leveled one of the small guns your direction when I failed to see the humor in the face of rather pathetically obvious answers.)
{^_^}
jdow wrote:
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
Craig White wrote:
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 14:40 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/1/05, Mike McCarty mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Would you please explain to me how my machine automagically knows it needs to change the content of a file on its disc when the legislature makes a change to the way DST works?
[snip]
Mike
$ man yum
Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/325/marcy_playground.php Marcy Playground Song Lyrics
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
you sure ask a lot of questions...
'updates-released' is checked against the local cache and new updates are thus recognized and downloaded if/when appropriate. Of course, if you knew how yum worked, you would know that.
As for how and when updates are released, that of course is up to the packagers.
Craig
How does one get through to you? I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE YUM. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. READ WHAT I WROTE.
You again responded to what you read rather than what I asked.
Is English your first/primary language?
The purpose of my questions is to point out that the fellow wanted to know how to update the files *HIMSELF* and the only responses he's getting are from people like you who cannot/will not respond to the question AS ASKED.
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
And the answer to the OP's question is so far not yet given.
Mike
Ah yes, the illiterate grasshopper calling the Masters illiterate. Such fascinating projection here. It's a wonderful psychological case study.
Indeed? And you are qualified?
I was not the original poster.
My questions were rhetorical.
The OP asked what the format of the files was so he could edit them for himself.
I was making the point that the OP's question had not been asked.
- You were told what file needed to be changed.
Hmm? I didn't ask that question.
- You were told how it was changed by those who will do the changing.
But that wasn't the question.
- You were reminded that your machine DOES automatically update if you tell it to. It also updates when you do it manually. This update process WILL include the new time zone files as needed.
I'm not the one having a problem with DST changes.
Were you REALLY too dense to put this all together or are you trying to be an imbecilic troll?
Neither. I was using what is technically known as a "figure of speech".
Mike
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
jdow wrote:
Neither. I was using what is technically known as a "figure of speech".
Be honest with yourself. You were trolling or were trying to be funny without indicating you were trying to be funny.
/dev/null is the way to handle such people. You've been handled.
{^_^}
On Mon, 2005-08-01 at 17:27 -0700, jdow wrote:
From: "Mike McCarty" mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net
I already know how to use yum. Please respond to what I wrote rather than to what you read.
He did. It will simply be yet another yum update.
You DO keep your system up to date, don't you? {^_^}
I believe Mike was following up Gene Heskett's post (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2005-July/msg05976.html) about how to update his FC2 system, which won't get updated via yum because FC2 is no longer maintained, except for security issues via Fedora Legacy. So all the answers suggesting to use yum or otherwise keep up to date missed the point.
However, I've seen at least two replies that *did* indicate how to update time zone data yourself:
* My suggestion of referring to "man zic": https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2005-July/msg05984.html
* Joel Jaeggli's post going into more details of the timezone file format and the libc functions that support timezones: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2005-August/msg00176.html
Can we please wrap up this thread now?
Paul.
Gene Heskett <gene.heskett <at> verizon.net> writes:
Yes, but on this FC2 box, there is not to my knowledge, any mechanism for auto-updating the file. Can you elaborate on hwo this is done?
Yum. The tzdata maintainer publishes a new version with the changed data files. The tzdata archive contains textual description of the timezones which are compiled into a binary format. The tools for dumping and compiling are not include in Fedora Core. Red Hat then releases a new tzdata package and everyone updates through yum.
Not much different than when firefox is updated.
- Ian
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 17:11 +0000, Ian Burrell wrote:
Gene Heskett <gene.heskett <at> verizon.net> writes:
Yes, but on this FC2 box, there is not to my knowledge, any mechanism for auto-updating the file. Can you elaborate on hwo this is done?
Yum. The tzdata maintainer publishes a new version with the changed data files. The tzdata archive contains textual description of the timezones which are compiled into a binary format. The tools for dumping and compiling are not include in Fedora Core.
zdump and zic are included in the glibc-common package.
Red Hat then releases a new tzdata package and everyone updates through yum.
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Mike
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 12:52 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Yes, but the Fedora Legacy project concentrates on security issues, so timezone data updates probably won't get addressed.
Paul.
On 8/3/05, Paul Howarth paul@city-fan.org wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 12:52 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Yes, but the Fedora Legacy project concentrates on security issues, so timezone data updates probably won't get addressed.
Paul.
The reason for that is simple: Fedora is Redhat's test distro. A new version is released every half year, and we are all encouraged to upgrade: that way Redhat has us always testing the newest stuff. If someone wants a more stable distro, there is RHEL. Upgrading is part of the responsibility that we take on when we are using a bleeding-edge distro.
Dotan Cohen
http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/421/ramones.php The Ramones Song Lyrics
Mike McCarty wrote:
The answer to my question, AS ASKED, is "It is impossible for your machine automatically to change the configuration files by itself when your local government passes a new ordinance."
Mike
Not if you have enabled the yum service. If it is changed someone will probably adjust the needed package and the packages on the local machine will be automatically updated
StarQuake
At 7:09 AM +0100 8/3/05, Paul Howarth wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 12:52 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Yes, but the Fedora Legacy project concentrates on security issues, so timezone data updates probably won't get addressed.
They also /use/ their computers. All of them would be annoyed by having the time wrong. I'd bet that they'll have a fix out long before it's needed. ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' mailto:tonynelson@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/
At 9:22 AM +0300 8/3/05, Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 8/3/05, Paul Howarth paul@city-fan.org wrote:
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 12:52 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Yes, but the Fedora Legacy project concentrates on security issues, so timezone data updates probably won't get addressed.
Paul.
The reason for that is simple: Fedora is Redhat's test distro.
Fedora is like an Agricultural University's test garden for developing new varieties of Linux, and Redhat chooses the new varieties they want from Fedora's garden and from other places as well. Others are also welcome to choose new varieties from that garden.
The Fedora Legacy project has less support because most Fedora users and developers have been moving forward with new versions of Fedora, and also because the Fedora Legacy users mostly are running stable servers and don't want to change anything they don't have to. Security is what they need, as well as critical bug fixes, so that's what they work on. ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' mailto:tonynelson@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/
From: "Paul Howarth" paul@city-fan.org
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 12:52 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
Red Hat don't release any updates for FC2 any more. It is
End-of-Lifed.
Paul.
True, but then there is always http://www.fedoralegacy.org/ Not exactly "support", but not exactly abandoned, either.
Yes, but the Fedora Legacy project concentrates on security issues, so timezone data updates probably won't get addressed.
Yes, they will have to address time zone issues. Kerberos authentication depends on accurate time of day information.
{^_^}
-
Callahan, Michael -
Craig White -
Dotan Cohen -
Gene Heskett -
Ian Burrell -
jdow -
Jeff Vian -
Joel Jaeggli -
Les Mikesell -
Mike McCarty -
Paul Howarth -
StarQuake -
taharka -
Tony Nelson