I'm looking at alternative window managers to Gnome fallback, the only Gnome my old hardware and work preference will support. The more I investigate fvwm, the more it seems like a nice stable, extremely configurable solution to my problem. The modular concept is great, and the ability to program behavior in a scripting language and interface seemlessly to the wm seems like a nice idea too. Sure, there is a learning curve, and no GUI configuration, but I can come to my perfect setup, and won't need to worry about dependency on the latest bee someone has in their bonnet about what constitutes a modern GUI. Well, at least until I updgrade my hardware, and maybe not even then.
There is a problem though. How do I start fvwm from a console? What is the command for fvwm corresponding to startx or startxfce4? I found XSESSION=fvwm2 startx -- :1 vt11 and that works, but seems to just start the regular Gnome fallback mode that startx by itself does. Maybe this is so well known that no one bothers documenting it, but I couldn't find it on the web.
Anyone have an answer?
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:04:01 -0700 stan wrote:
Anyone have an answer?
X session startup is one of those things they keep "improving" so that nothing you find in google is ever accurate or up to date. I use fvwm myself, but I'm not sure how to make startx run any particular session. I login to X with KDM and install the xorg-x11-xinit-session package from yum which provides a "custom" start option you can select in the KDM login screen that will actually (gasp!) run your ~/.xsession script at startup (just like X always did for 30 years before they improved it).
Then I can run fvwm in my ~/.xsession script.
More info available here:
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:54:06 -0500 Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
I login to X with KDM
Then I can run fvwm in my ~/.xsession script.
More info available here:
Thanks for the reference. Because of the way I installed F15, I boot to multiuser instead of X (I did a minimal network install, ran preupgrade in F14 to get the packages for F15 that I used in F14, then used them to upgrade the minimal install, and left F14 intact as fallback. The Fedora wiki describes the simple process of cleaning up a partially preupgraded system.). The minimal install boots to multiuser by default, I find I like it that way, and haven't fixed it. If an X session goes bad, switch to the console it is running on and type Ctrl-C, all better. If I find no way to do it from the console, I'll break down and implement your method after I fix the boot to be graphical instead of multiuser.
I had no idea that Gnome was so interdependent / monolithic. Reminds me of a giant COBOL program. And yes, now that you mention it, that is how Windows is too. To each their own. And regardless how I might frown at that kind of design (where were the architects?), I got lots of great use out of the interface as long as their idea and mine of what a GUI is were somewhat similar, and thank them for that, and wish them well.
A possibility I haven't pursued yet is http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/ and there look to be some great themes there. That is supposed to start with a simple fvwm-themes-start from a console. Fedora doesn't seem to have that as a package, so I'll compile and install it from tarball. It seems fairly old, so might be obsolete. If that works, I'll upgrade to the latest fvwm (2.6.4). I wanted to kick the tires on fvwm before I invested a lot of time and effort in it. There are lots of great config files on the web I wanted to try. Looks like that plan isn't going to work without some modification.
2012/2/29, stan gryt2@q.com:
[...]
A possibility I haven't pursued yet is http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/ and there look to be some great themes there. That is supposed to start with a simple fvwm-themes-start from a console. Fedora doesn't seem to have that as a package, so I'll compile and install it from tarball. It seems fairly old, so might be obsolete. If that works, I'll upgrade to the latest fvwm (2.6.4). I wanted to kick the tires on fvwm before I invested a lot of time and effort in it. There are lots of great config files on the web I wanted to try. Looks like that plan isn't going to work without some modification.
Can't you simply start X with startx and put exec /path/to/fvwm as the last line into ~/.Xclients (and make it executable)?
Andras
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:17:01 +0100 Andras Simon szajmi@gmail.com wrote:
Can't you simply start X with startx and put exec /path/to/fvwm as the last line into ~/.Xclients (and make it executable)?
Well, yes I can... after your help. ;-)
That worked great! Thank you.
2012/2/29, stan gryt2@q.com:
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:17:01 +0100 Andras Simon szajmi@gmail.com wrote:
Can't you simply start X with startx and put exec /path/to/fvwm as the last line into ~/.Xclients (and make it executable)?
Well, yes I can... after your help. ;-)
That worked great! Thank you.
You're welcome,
Andras
Just curious, has anyone tried pekwm yet? www.pekwm.org, and it is in the Fedora repositories.
Also, is it possible to make a LiveCD with a WM environment (not with a DE)?
Many thanks and best wishes, Ranjan
On Thu, 1 Mar 2012 07:26:42 -0600 Ranjan Maitra maitra@iastate.edu wrote:
Just curious, has anyone tried pekwm yet? www.pekwm.org, and it is in the Fedora repositories.
Haven't tried it. Yet, at least. Now that you have pointed it out, I will probably give it a whirl. The site below has a comprehensive list of window managers for linux, with links and brief comments. http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html It suggests pekwm behaves like a derivative of aewm++ with window grouping like PWM and fluxbox. And no, I don't know what that means, though he does say that he likes it.
Also, is it possible to make a LiveCD with a WM environment (not with a DE)?
Of course it's possible. ;-) The question I think you are asking is if there exists a mechanism to provide that easily, and I think the answer is no. However, it should be possible to take the image of a desktop iso that exists, mount it locally, copy it so it is rw, modify it to your needs (change applications, configuration), and then recreate a new iso from the modified copy. Burn to CD, and you then have your custom live CD. I haven't actually done this, so theoretical musings only, the implementation left as an exercise for the reader. :-)
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 09:04:01AM -0700, stan wrote:
I'm looking at alternative window managers to Gnome fallback, the only Gnome my old hardware and work preference will support. The more I investigate fvwm, the more it seems like a nice stable, extremely configurable solution to my problem. The modular concept is great, and the ability to program behavior in a scripting language and interface seemlessly to the wm seems like a nice idea too. Sure, there is a learning curve, and no GUI configuration, but I can come to my perfect setup, and won't need to worry about dependency on the latest bee someone has in their bonnet about what constitutes a modern GUI. Well, at least until I updgrade my hardware, and maybe not even then.
There is a problem though. How do I start fvwm from a console? What is the command for fvwm corresponding to startx or startxfce4? I found XSESSION=fvwm2 startx -- :1 vt11 and that works, but seems to just start the regular Gnome fallback mode that startx by itself does. Maybe this is so well known that no one bothers documenting it, but I couldn't find it on the web.
Anyone have an answer?
Not familiar with fvwm, but I have 4 wm's that I run on a regular basis, and what I have done is make a little shell script:
#!/bin/bash #Window Manager Chooser Script XINIT=/home/rh/.xinitrc if [ -e "$XINIT" ]; then rm /home/rh/.xinitrc else echo '*** No .xinitrc found; will create new one.' fi echo -e "\n" echo -e "\n" echo Hello, $USER! Which WM will it be this time? echo -e "\n" echo 'FBOX (type 'fb'); E17 (type 'e'); OPENBOX (type 'ob'); XTERM (type 'xt'):' echo 'Type Ctl-C or "quit" to exit.' read WMGR if [ "$WMGR" = fb ]; then echo 'exec startfluxbox' >> /home/rh/.xinitrc echo 'Starting Fluxbox...' sleep 3 startx exit 1 elif [ "$WMGR" = ob ]; then echo 'exec openbox-session' >> /home/rh/.xinitrc echo 'Starting Openbox...' sleep 3 startx exit 1 elif [ "$WMGR" = e ]; then echo 'xset b off s 10000 -dpms &' >> /home/rh/.xinitrc echo 'exec enlightenment_start' >> /home/rh/.xinitrc echo 'Starting E17...' sleep 3 startx exit 1 elif [ "$WMGR" = xt ]; then echo 'exec xterm' >> /home/rh/.xinitrc echo 'Starting X with xterm...' sleep 3 startx exit 1 else echo 'Exiting...' exit 1 fi fi
I don't know if this answers your question, but maybe it helps. :)
Terry
On Thu, 1 Mar 2012 12:26:45 -0800 ny6p01@gmail.com wrote:
[script removed]
I don't know if this answers your question, but maybe it helps. :)
Yes, it answers my question and I will keep the script for future use. I have already received an answer from Andras Simon that is very closely related to yours, but it is all good. :-) Thank you.
On Thu, 1 Mar 2012 12:26:45 -0800 ny6p01@gmail.com wrote:
Not familiar with fvwm, but I have 4 wm's that I run on a regular basis, and what I have done is make a little shell script:
I modified your script to allow an argument, and to start several more window managers, all available as packages in the Fedora repositories. At this time it defaults to gnome if no argument is entered. It uses .Xclients because that runs a Fedora X setup script which .xinitrc won't, as near as I can tell. I've attached it below.
I named it xselect, but it can be named anything you want. Started as ./xselect ob, it will start openbox, for example. If started as ./xselect, it will ask for a two letter code. If you hit enter again, without a code, it will start the default. Control-C will cancel.
I run a custom keymap, one I created. In order to get it in all the window managers, I have it in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols. GDM will pick it up from there, but some of the window managers need an entry for it in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.xml in order to see it. And some don't seem to have the ability to change to custom keymaps. Putting the keymap in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols and then putting the file name in ~/.Xkbmap will load it automatically as part of X when this script is run. There are other ways, using xmodmap and setxkbmap, but this works.
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Andras Simon -
Lee -
Ranjan Maitra -
stan -
Tom Horsley