fstab and LABEL=

[Mark Haney]

I'm a little confused about the LABEL= option in /etc/fstab.  Let's say 
I have this line in my fstab:

LABEL=/home/archiv      /home/archive3          xfs     defaults        1 2

And I want to change the mountpoint of this to /archive instead of 
/home/archive3.  Will I need to (or should I) edit the LABEL= to reflect 
the changes?  Or can I just use the /dev/ instead?

[Jeff Voskamp]

Mark Haney wrote:
> I'm a little confused about the LABEL= option in /etc/fstab.  Let's 
> say I have this line in my fstab:
>
> LABEL=/home/archiv      /home/archive3          xfs     
> defaults        1 2
>
> And I want to change the mountpoint of this to /archive instead of 
> /home/archive3.  Will I need to (or should I) edit the LABEL= to 
> reflect the changes?  Or can I just use the /dev/ instead?

Don't edit the LABEL in /etc/fstab unless you're able to change it on 
the disk right now as well.
The label is stashed in the filesystem header.  The system scans all 
not-in-use partitions for labels when you try to mount a drive that way.

Jeff

[Denis Leroy]

Mark Haney wrote:
> I'm a little confused about the LABEL= option in /etc/fstab.  Let's say 
> I have this line in my fstab:
>
> LABEL=/home/archiv      /home/archive3          xfs     defaults        1 2
>
> And I want to change the mountpoint of this to /archive instead of 
> /home/archive3.  Will I need to (or should I) edit the LABEL= to reflect 
> the changes?  Or can I just use the /dev/ instead?

In your case, you should change the 2nd field only, to reflect where to 
mount the partition. The first field only identifies which partition to 
mount, not *where* to mount it (in this case, the partition labeled 
"/home/archiv"). The LABEL is just an arbitrary string that's compared 
to the labels written onto the disk partitions themselves (with the 
'e2label' command btw).  It is popular to use as label the path where 
the partition should be mounted, but that's completely up to the sysadmin.

[Joe Smith]

Denis Leroy wrote:
> Mark Haney wrote:
> ...  It is popular to use as label the path where
> the partition should be mounted, but that's completely up to the sysadmin.

And it makes it so much fun when your mobo blows up and you try to move 
the system drive to another working system, only to find that nothing 
will boot because the labels (e.g. '/usr', '/home', etc.) are all 
duplicated.

Wouldn't it be a better default policy to make the default labels be 
somewhat unique? Say, 1 letter from the mfgr + 2-3 digits from the 
serial# -> "W23:/home".

How is this handled for portable drives? Aren't duplicate labels a 
problem there?

<Joe

[Tim]

On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 11:07 -0400, Mark Haney wrote:
> I'm a little confused about the LABEL= option in /etc/fstab.  Let's say 
> I have this line in my fstab:
>
> LABEL=/home/archiv      /home/archive3          xfs     defaults        1 2
>
> And I want to change the mountpoint of this to /archive instead of 
> /home/archive3.  Will I need to (or should I) edit the LABEL= to reflect 
> the changes?  Or can I just use the /dev/ instead?

You can just use the /dev/hda style of fstab lines, instead.  In that
case, it doesn't matter what the drives are actually labelled as.

The label and the mount point don't have to be related.  The label could
well have been seagate2 with that mountpoint, it would have worked.

You can also relabel partitions, just remember to also change the fstab
to suit, before rebooting (or before re-reading the available drives in
some other manner).

[James Wilkinson]

Tim wrote:
> You can just use the /dev/hda style of fstab lines, instead.  In that
> case, it doesn't matter what the drives are actually labelled as.

Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab will
break.

The new drivers have already been merged into the Linux kernel tree, and
may be turned on for Fedora Core 7.

See http://lwn.net/Articles/198344/ for more details.

Hope this helps,

James.

[Goksin Akdeniz]

> I'm a little confused about the LABEL= option in /etc/fstab.  Let's say
> I have this line in my fstab:
>
> LABEL=/home/archiv      /home/archive3          xfs     defaults        1 2
>
> And I want to change the mountpoint of this to /archive instead of
> /home/archive3.  Will I need to (or should I) edit the LABEL= to reflect
> the changes?  Or can I just use the /dev/ instead?

You do not need to use /dev.

I had a different partitioning so I had "LABEL=" in may fstab entires. I 
edited them. You can do it so. I think /home/archive3 is not your home 
directory.

Here is my suggestion:

1- Create a directory under / named archiv

2-Make a copy of your fstab as fstab.1

3-Edit the fstab as given below

/archiv	/home/archive3		xfs	defaults 	1 2

4-Save the edited fstab

5-Run mount- a

If everhting is ok, you will get no error messages.

Goksin Akdeniz
--------
www.enixma.org

[Tim]

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 16:41 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> will break.

This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  As it stands, I can
tell precisely what device is what by the device name.  i.e. /dev/hda is
the primary IDE drive.

Conversely, whichever drive is /dev/sd something-or-other *might* be a
SCSI drive, might be a flashdrive in a USB port, might be my digital
still camera in a USB port, and they shuffle around depending which
removable devices are present, or not.

This takes the absolute certainty of what is what out of the equation,
and gives us the utterly crap situation that Windows has:  drive letter
shuffling.  Topped off with a device naming scheme which is incorrect.
Whoever things that /that/ sort of thing is a good idea needs a sound
thrashing about the head with a clue-by-four.

I've just gone through that mess trying to work out what was up with
someone's DVD-burner in an external USB-connected case.  I couldn't find
it anywhere on the device tree, because I couldn't work out what device
it was, and the system didn't do anything coherent about it, either.

The ONLY sensible way to manage this is to use CLEARLY COHERENT device
names.  Stick to /dev/hd for IDE hard drives (though /dev/ide would have
been better).  Stick to /dev/sd for SCSI devices (likewise, dev/scsi
would have been more sensible).  And stop pissing about pretending that
non-SCSI devices are SCSI devices, and name them accordingly.  i.e. Use
some /dev/usb style of device naming for things connected through USB.

[Jay Cliburn]

Tim wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 16:41 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > will break.
>
> This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]

You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this 
change comes from.

Jay

[Globe Trotter]

--- Jay Cliburn  wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 16:41 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > will break.
> >
> > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
>
> You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this
>
> change comes from.
>
> Jay

And how about the no automatic editing feature in FC5 (started from the middle
of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct complaints on this? It is unclear to me
and several others why this feature was removed?

The release notes for FC4+ say: use gnome-mount. Which comes with no
documentation, and what if users like me decide not to use gnome or KDE? Should
they be expected to give up on Fedora?

Thanks,
Trotter

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[Jay Cliburn]

Globe Trotter wrote:
> --- Jay Cliburn  wrote:
> > Tim wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 16:41 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> > > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > > will break.
> > >
> > > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
> >
> > You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this
> >
> > change comes from.
> >
> > Jay
>
> And how about the no automatic editing feature in FC5 (started from the middle
> of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct complaints on this? It is unclear to me
> and several others why this feature was removed?

Complain where you wish, so long as you recognize that your complaint might not 
do any good, given the incorrect venue.  My response to Tim was actually 
intended to help.  (Whether or not it did is another matter.)  Complaining in 
this list about something that comes from upstream seems a bit pointless to me, 
unless you just want your opinion heard, I guess.
> The release notes for FC4+ say: use gnome-mount. Which comes with no
> documentation,

FC6 has a nice manpage for gnome-mount now.
> and what if users like me decide not to use gnome or KDE? Should
> they be expected to give up on Fedora?

I use gnome, so I can't answer your question.

[Globe Trotter]

> > And how about the no automatic editing feature in FC5 (started from the
>
> middle
> > of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct complaints on this? It is unclear to
>
> me
> > and several others why this feature was removed?
>
> Complain where you wish, so long as you recognize that your complaint might
> not 
> do any good, given the incorrect venue.  My response to Tim was actually 
> intended to help.  (Whether or not it did is another matter.)  Complaining in
>
> this list about something that comes from upstream seems a bit pointless to
> me, 
> unless you just want your opinion heard, I guess.

Thanks! I was just trying to figure out where to direct it: since no one seems
to respond on the list, for over one year!
> FC6 has a nice manpage for gnome-mount now.

Where is this manpage? I guess I should wait for FC6 to be released?
> and what if users like me decide not to use gnome or KDE? Should
> > they be expected to give up on Fedora?
>
> I use gnome, so I can't answer your question.

Thanks again!

Best,
Trotter

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[Ric Moore]

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 13:07 -0500, Jay Cliburn wrote:
> Globe Trotter wrote:
> > --- Jay Cliburn  wrote:
> > > Tim wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 16:41 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote:
> > > > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > > > will break.
> > > >
> > > > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
> > >
> > > You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this
> > >
> > > change comes from.
> > >
> > > Jay
> >
> > And how about the no automatic editing feature in FC5 (started from the middle
> > of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct complaints on this? It is unclear to me
> > and several others why this feature was removed?
>
> Complain where you wish, so long as you recognize that your complaint might not 
> do any good, given the incorrect venue.  My response to Tim was actually 
> intended to help.  (Whether or not it did is another matter.)  Complaining in 
> this list about something that comes from upstream seems a bit pointless to me, 
> unless you just want your opinion heard, I guess.

There is that, Trotter. Just having an opinion heard may lead to a
consensus of opinion. Free exchange of ideas, etc. Instead of 20 people
posting upstream as individuals, there is a perception that a group
effort might carry more weight, even with the same number of members.
It's surprising just how many complaints posted to this list later
become newly defined features that remedy the original complaints.

Plus there is the added benefit of bouncing opinions off of the others
(peers) on this list as a form of reality check, before running upstream
with a half cocked notion that merits a slap-down from the Gods. So, I
am of the opinion that this is the correct venue to be heard in. It
might be the necessary venue, for the reasons I cited. That's my
two-cents, Ric

[Ric Moore]

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 19:59 +0300, Goksin Akdeniz wrote:
> Here is my suggestion:
>
> 1- Create a directory under / named archiv
>
> 2-Make a copy of your fstab as fstab.1
>
> 3-Edit the fstab as given below
>
> /archiv	/home/archive3		xfs	defaults 	1 2
>
> 4-Save the edited fstab
>
> 5-Run mount- a
>
> If everhting is ok, you will get no error messages.

Wow, just got an education here! Thanx for the info. Ric

[Antonio Olivares]

--- Globe Trotter  wrote:
> > > And how about the no automatic editing feature
>
> in FC5 (started from the
> > middle
> > > of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct
>
> complaints on this? It is unclear to
> > me
> > > and several others why this feature was removed?
> >
> > Complain where you wish, so long as you recognize
>
> that your complaint might
> > not 
> > do any good, given the incorrect venue.  My
>
> response to Tim was actually
> > intended to help.  (Whether or not it did is
>
> another matter.)  Complaining in
> > this list about something that comes from upstream
>
> seems a bit pointless to
> > me, 
> > unless you just want your opinion heard, I guess.
>
> Thanks! I was just trying to figure out where to
> direct it: since no one seems
> to respond on the list, for over one year!
> > FC6 has a nice manpage for gnome-mount now.
>
> Where is this manpage?

They are working on it.  It is a "Draft".  man
gnome-mount returned this at one time running Fedora
Core 6 Test 2/3 when I tried mounting a floppy disk 
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2006-September/msg00561.htm...

[olivares localhost ~]$ gnome-mount -help
gnome-mount 0.4.0.2006.07.24
[olivares localhost ~]$ gnome-mount --help
Usage:
  gnome-mount [OPTION...] - GNOME mount

Help Options:
  -?, --help               Show help options
  --help-all               Show all help options
  --help-gtk               Show GTK+ Options

Application Options:
  -v, --verbose            Verbose operation
  -n, --no-ui              Don't show any dialogs
  -b, --block              Allow gnome-mount to block
for UI
  -u, --unmount            Unmount rather than mount
  -e, --eject              Eject rather than mount
  -h, --hal-udi            Mount by HAL UDI
  -d, --device             Mount by device file
  -p, --pseudonym          Mount by one of device's
nicknames: mountpoint, label, with or without
directory prefix
  -t, --text               Text-based operation
  -m, --mount-point        Specify mount point
  -o, --mount-options      Specify mount options
  -f, --fstype             Specify file system type
  --write-settings         Don't mount; write given
settings for volume/drive
  --display-settings       Don't mount; display
settings for volume/drive
  --erase-settings         Don't mount; erase settings
for volume/drive
  --display=DISPLAY        X display to use

[olivares localhost ~]$

gnome-mount now does it job as it should.  I can mount
floppies this using gnome-mount -d /dev/fd0 and USB
drives are automatically mounted.  FC6 is looking
great so far.  Hope that most bugs are ironed out and
all users expect a better fedora than before.

I guess I should wait for FC6
> to be released?
> > and what if users like me decide not to use gnome
>
> or KDE? Should
> > > they be expected to give up on Fedora?

No, do not give up on Fedora because of this.  Use the
command line tools that have worked for us in the
past.  mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy,.  Make a directory
/mnt/cdrom and use the command mount /dev/hdc
/mnt/cdrom and we can see the cdrom mounted in the
case that it did not mount automagically.  We need to
give more feedback and just like Ric said complain,
someone will hear and make changes and the next fedora
release should be better than the previous one.

Regards,

Antonio
> > I use gnome, so I can't answer your question.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Best,
> Trotter
>
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> protection around 
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[Antonio Olivares]

--- Globe Trotter  wrote:
> > > And how about the no automatic editing feature
>
> in FC5 (started from the
> > middle
> > > of FC4 onwards)? Where does one direct
>
> complaints on this? It is unclear to
> > me
> > > and several others why this feature was removed?
> >
> > Complain where you wish, so long as you recognize
>
> that your complaint might
> > not 
> > do any good, given the incorrect venue.  My
>
> response to Tim was actually
> > intended to help.  (Whether or not it did is
>
> another matter.)  Complaining in
> > this list about something that comes from upstream
>
> seems a bit pointless to
> > me, 
> > unless you just want your opinion heard, I guess.
>
> Thanks! I was just trying to figure out where to
> direct it: since no one seems
> to respond on the list, for over one year!
> > FC6 has a nice manpage for gnome-mount now.
>
> Where is this manpage?

They are working on it.  It is a "Draft".  man
gnome-mount returned this at one time running Fedora
Core 6 Test 2/3 when I tried mounting a floppy disk 
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2006-September/msg00561.htm...

[olivares localhost ~]$ gnome-mount -help
gnome-mount 0.4.0.2006.07.24
[olivares localhost ~]$ gnome-mount --help
Usage:
  gnome-mount [OPTION...] - GNOME mount

Help Options:
  -?, --help               Show help options
  --help-all               Show all help options
  --help-gtk               Show GTK+ Options

Application Options:
  -v, --verbose            Verbose operation
  -n, --no-ui              Don't show any dialogs
  -b, --block              Allow gnome-mount to block
for UI
  -u, --unmount            Unmount rather than mount
  -e, --eject              Eject rather than mount
  -h, --hal-udi            Mount by HAL UDI
  -d, --device             Mount by device file
  -p, --pseudonym          Mount by one of device's
nicknames: mountpoint, label, with or without
directory prefix
  -t, --text               Text-based operation
  -m, --mount-point        Specify mount point
  -o, --mount-options      Specify mount options
  -f, --fstype             Specify file system type
  --write-settings         Don't mount; write given
settings for volume/drive
  --display-settings       Don't mount; display
settings for volume/drive
  --erase-settings         Don't mount; erase settings
for volume/drive
  --display=DISPLAY        X display to use

[olivares localhost ~]$

gnome-mount now does it job as it should.  I can mount
floppies this using gnome-mount -d /dev/fd0 and USB
drives are automatically mounted.  FC6 is looking
great so far.  Hope that most bugs are ironed out and
all users expect a better fedora than before.

I guess I should wait for FC6
> to be released?
> > and what if users like me decide not to use gnome
>
> or KDE? Should
> > > they be expected to give up on Fedora?

No, do not give up on Fedora because of this.  Use the
command line tools that have worked for us in the
past.  mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy,.  Make a directory
/mnt/cdrom and use the command mount /dev/hdc
/mnt/cdrom and we can see the cdrom mounted in the
case that it did not mount automagically.  We need to
give more feedback and just like Ric said complain,
someone will hear and make changes and the next fedora
release should be better than the previous one.

Regards,

Antonio
> > I use gnome, so I can't answer your question.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Best,
> Trotter
>
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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> [e-mail]
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> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

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[Tim]

James Wilkinson:
> > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > will break.

Tim:
> > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]

Jay Cliburn:
> You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this 
> change comes from.

While I might, eventually (depending on getting myself organised,
figuring out how and where to do it, and checking that someone else
hasn't already said the same thing, etc.).  This was the first place
that I heard that plan, so I replied in the same arena.  And as others
will say, it gives a chance for the thoughts to be mulled over before
making a bug report.

[Ric Moore]

On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 15:51 +0930, Tim wrote:
> James Wilkinson:
> > > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > > will break.
>
> Tim:
> > > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
>
> Jay Cliburn:
> > You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this 
> > change comes from.
>
> While I might, eventually (depending on getting myself organised,
> figuring out how and where to do it, and checking that someone else
> hasn't already said the same thing, etc.).  This was the first place
> that I heard that plan, so I replied in the same arena.  And as others
> will say, it gives a chance for the thoughts to be mulled over before
> making a bug report.

That makes a lot more sense than 20 of us half-witters whining at
developers, when one articulate envoy could be nominated from us, the
rank & filers in the cheap seats, to present a reasonable, informed and
defined question. Answers are easy to come by, once you phrase the
question correctly. That's why I would make the case, as Tim does, that
this is the correct place (I would add necessary place) to air a problem
before doing the Don Quixote thing and go tilt at the Big Dev's. I think
they would appreciate that approach. It shows a little courtesy.

If I had their skills, I couldn't do their job. Way too much Fear &
Loathing of the approach of the unworthy, yammering with gravel in their
mouth. I'd have to find a Shiny Red Button to push. No fooling. <Think
Bikini Atoll> I think it was Net Llama that mentioned his BFG? Be
afraid. <cackles>

Plus I agree with Tim that it would be better if we could be left in
charge of devices in a standard fashion, that doesn't change up when a
new package is installed, either on it's own or at the whim of a package
maintainer. That's Windows stuff, not Linux!

"Just say No!" <----Nancy Reagan

<chuckles> Ric

[Jay Cliburn]

Ric Moore wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 15:51 +0930, Tim wrote:
> > James Wilkinson:
> > > > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > > > will break.
> >
> > Tim:
> > > > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
> >
> > Jay Cliburn:
> > > You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where this 
> > > change comes from.
> >
> > While I might, eventually (depending on getting myself organised,
> > figuring out how and where to do it, and checking that someone else
> > hasn't already said the same thing, etc.).  This was the first place
> > that I heard that plan, so I replied in the same arena.  And as others
> > will say, it gives a chance for the thoughts to be mulled over before
> > making a bug report.
>
> That makes a lot more sense than 20 of us half-witters whining at
> developers, when one articulate envoy could be nominated from us, the
> rank & filers in the cheap seats, to present a reasonable, informed and
> defined question.

The ultimate goal is to have your disk show up at /dev/diskX; moving everything 
to /dev/sdX is just a temporary step in that direction.

This thread has many of the exciting details from both sides of the aisle. 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-ide&m=115515849926079&w=2

[Tim]

On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 20:20 -0500, Jay Cliburn wrote:
> The ultimate goal is to have your disk show up at /dev/diskX; moving
> everything to /dev/sdX is just a temporary step in that direction.

That's only going to be of any good if discX *always* appears as discX,
no matter where it's connected, and no matter what else is also
connected.

The techniques of working with discs connected in different ways is
going to be different.  So something other than the name, now, will have
to be used to determine what way to handle the device.

I do wish things were done more like how it was on the Amiga:  Device
names were written into the device, as were volume names, and the file
system (if you wanted it to be).  Plugging the drive into anything meant
it was labelled and identified the same on any computer.

[Globe Trotter]

--- Ric Moore  wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 15:51 +0930, Tim wrote:
> > James Wilkinson:
> > > > > Please note that /dev/hdx device names are going away in the future --
> > > > > even parallel ATA disks (IDE) will be called /dev/sdx. When this
> > > > > happens, references to /dev/hdx in grub config files or /etc/fstab
> > > > > will break.
> >
> > Tim:
> > > > This seems to be a MONUMENTALLY STUPID thing to do.  [snip]
> >
> > Jay Cliburn:
> > > You should direct your complaint to the kernel developers.  That's where
>
> this
> > > change comes from.
> >
> > While I might, eventually (depending on getting myself organised,
> > figuring out how and where to do it, and checking that someone else
> > hasn't already said the same thing, etc.).  This was the first place
> > that I heard that plan, so I replied in the same arena.  And as others
> > will say, it gives a chance for the thoughts to be mulled over before
> > making a bug report.
>
> That makes a lot more sense than 20 of us half-witters whining at
> developers, when one articulate envoy could be nominated from us, the
> rank & filers in the cheap seats, to present a reasonable, informed and
> defined question. Answers are easy to come by, once you phrase the
> question correctly. That's why I would make the case, as Tim does, that
> this is the correct place (I would add necessary place) to air a problem
> before doing the Don Quixote thing and go tilt at the Big Dev's. I think
> they would appreciate that approach. It shows a little courtesy.
>
> If I had their skills, I couldn't do their job. Way too much Fear &
> Loathing of the approach of the unworthy, yammering with gravel in their
> mouth. I'd have to find a Shiny Red Button to push. No fooling. <Think
> Bikini Atoll> I think it was Net Llama that mentioned his BFG? Be
> afraid. <cackles>
>
> Plus I agree with Tim that it would be better if we could be left in
> charge of devices in a standard fashion, that doesn't change up when a
> new package is installed, either on it's own or at the whim of a package
> maintainer. That's Windows stuff, not Linux!

I couldn't agree more! Ok, this is a distribution, but for some reason, I
always thought that once some software arrived at 1.0, it was backwards
compatible. Maybe such notions are quaint now.

Trotter

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[Tony Nelson]

At 11:17 AM +0930 10/23/06, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 20:20 -0500, Jay Cliburn wrote:
> > The ultimate goal is to have your disk show up at /dev/diskX; moving
> > everything to /dev/sdX is just a temporary step in that direction.
>
> That's only going to be of any good if discX *always* appears as discX,
> no matter where it's connected, and no matter what else is also
> connected.
> > This thread has many of the exciting details from both sides of the aisle.
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-ide&m=115515849926079&w=2

According to that thread, that's the reason to have /dev/disk.  Until then,
dev/sd* for everything is going to be a mess, as it's naming is unstable.

[Les Mikesell]

On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 20:47, Tim wrote:
> I do wish things were done more like how it was on the Amiga:  Device
> names were written into the device, as were volume names, and the file
> system (if you wanted it to be).  Plugging the drive into anything meant
> it was labelled and identified the same on any computer.

What happened when you moved drives around or image-copied them
and ended up with two of the same label in the same machine?  Did
it do something reasonable or refuse to boot?   What did it do
with filesystems using different conventions?

[Tim]

Tim:
> > I do wish things were done more like how it was on the Amiga:  Device
> > names were written into the device, as were volume names, and the file
> > system (if you wanted it to be).  Plugging the drive into anything meant
> > it was labelled and identified the same on any computer.

Les Mikesell:
> What happened when you moved drives around or image-copied them
> and ended up with two of the same label in the same machine?  Did
> it do something reasonable or refuse to boot?   What did it do
> with filesystems using different conventions?

It did some reasonable things...

You had a boot menu that could pick the drive to boot from, that was
part of the firmware - no GRUB or LILO nastiness.  Each drive had a boot
priority, stored on the drive.  That did allow you to rip drives in and
out, and not have to do any messing about.  The fallback would be
booted, automatically, if need be.  Determined by the drives themselves,
not any external configuration.  Whichever drive was booted was known as
the SYS: drive, and any sensible person would write their boot scripts
to use SYS: as the root, if they wanted it to boot completely from just
that drive.

If you tried to put in two "HD0:" named drives (first Hard Disk - yes
they also count from zero), the second would be come "HD0.1:".
Likewise, if you put in two drives with a "Data:" volume name.  If you
really needed it the other way around, there was an extremely simple
solution:  Swap the drives around.  Though we tended to avoid that by
using device names peculiar to drives (e.g. SDH0: for the first Seagate
HD partition/drive, QDH0: for a Quantum one, but the choice of names was
up to the user).  Likewise, with volume labels (Workbench, System, Data,
Programs, whatever).  Generally, things worked by volume labels, and it
didn't matter what the device label was.

Each drive could use different filesystems, if you wanted.  Even the
partitions could, though I can't recall if you could store custom file
systems per partition (I think so).  Storing them on the drive meant
that you could transplant a drive between boxes, and not require that
the other box had the file system installed into the OS.

All in all, it was rather neat at how it handled such things.  I
certainly miss the ease that I could swap drives around between boxes.
Though, more so, I miss the fact that one OS was installed on my system
for umpteen years with *no* need of replacement or repair.  Applications
were another matter, but the longevity of the OS was a godsend.

[Les Mikesell]

On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 22:29, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
> > > I do wish things were done more like how it was on the Amiga:
> All in all, it was rather neat at how it handled such things.  I
> certainly miss the ease that I could swap drives around between boxes.
> Though, more so, I miss the fact that one OS was installed on my system
> for umpteen years with *no* need of replacement or repair.  Applications
> were another matter, but the longevity of the OS was a godsend.

I still have a couple of boxes running RH 7.3.  On one, the last
kernel update was in July 2003 and I don't think it has been
rebooted since.  That version had a bug that made the uptime
counter roll at 497 days so I can't be sure, but it's running
DHCP and internal DNS and I'm not aware of them ever being
down.  Most of my production servers are running Centos 3.x
and have been for years, but they get an occasional reboot
when the kernel is updated.  Once you get to an X.X.20 version
of Linux it tends to be pretty stable - or at least it did
in the versions that had an odd-numbered twin for new development
work.  Those days might be over.