FC5: X won't start

[Mikael Rasmussen]

I have updated my FC4 to FC5.

At the first reboot, it started as it should, but was a bit slow in 
graphics. I solved some problems with yum using FC4 repos, and the 
entire machine is now updated (Except for an old known problem on 
gstreamer).

The problem is, that the X server won't start. I have tried the following:

1. boot to runlevel 3, and run "system-config-display
    "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
2. boot to runlevel 3, and run "startx"
    "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
3. removed xorg-x11-server-Xorg and all related packages,and reinstalled 
it all
    Still same result as 1 & 2.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate?


Mikael

[Kam Leo]

On 4/21/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>  I have updated my FC4 to FC5.
>
>  At the first reboot, it started as it should, but was a bit slow in
>  graphics. I solved some problems with yum using FC4 repos, and the
>  entire machine is now updated (Except for an old known problem on
>  gstreamer).
>
>  The problem is, that the X server won't start. I have tried the following:
>
>  1. boot to runlevel 3, and run "system-config-display
>      "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  2. boot to runlevel 3, and run "startx"
>      "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  3. removed xorg-x11-server-Xorg and all related packages,and reinstalled
>  it all
>      Still same result as 1 & 2.
>
>  Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate?
>
>
>  Mikael
>  
You did not state what make of graphics adapter that you have
installed. There are problems with the as shipped kernel and drivers
for both Nvidia and ATI. You need to upgrade if you have either type
of adapter.

[Kam Leo]

On 4/21/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>   Kam Leo skrev:
>   On 4/21/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>
>
>   I have updated my FC4 to FC5.
>
>  At the first reboot, it started as it should, but was a bit slow in
>  graphics. I solved some problems with yum using FC4 repos, and the
>  entire machine is now updated (Except for an old known problem on
>  gstreamer).
>
>  The problem is, that the X server won't start. I have tried the following:
>
>  1. boot to runlevel 3, and run "system-config-display
>   "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  2. boot to runlevel 3, and run "startx"
>   "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  3. removed xorg-x11-server-Xorg and all related packages,and reinstalled
>  it all
>   Still same result as 1 & 2.
>
>  Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate?
>
>
>  Mikael
>
>
>   You did not state what make of graphics adapter that you have
>  installed. There are problems with the as shipped kernel and drivers
>  for both Nvidia and ATI. You need to upgrade if you have either type
>  of adapter.
>
>
>   OK.
>
>   Any suggestions to a website or a yum package?
>
>   I have a feeling, that a have crawled through it all
>
>
>   Mikael
>  
There are lots of updates since FC5 was released. You can do an update
of everything that you have installed or just an update of the kernel
and xorg..

[Kam Leo]

On 4/22/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>   Kam Leo skrev:
>   On 4/21/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>
>
>   Kam Leo skrev:
>   On 4/21/06, Mikael Rasmussen <redhat(a)ifh.dk&gt; wrote:
>
>
>   I have updated my FC4 to FC5.
>
>  At the first reboot, it started as it should, but was a bit slow in
>  graphics. I solved some problems with yum using FC4 repos, and the
>  entire machine is now updated (Except for an old known problem on
>  gstreamer).
>
>  The problem is, that the X server won't start. I have tried the following:
>
>  1. boot to runlevel 3, and run "system-config-display
>   "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  2. boot to runlevel 3, and run "startx"
>   "couldn't start X server on Card 0"
>  3. removed xorg-x11-server-Xorg and all related packages,and reinstalled
>  it all
>   Still same result as 1 & 2.
>
>  Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate?
>
>
>  Mikael
>
>
>   You did not state what make of graphics adapter that you have
>  installed. There are problems with the as shipped kernel and drivers
>  for both Nvidia and ATI. You need to upgrade if you have either type
>  of adapter.
>
>
>   OK.
>
>   Any suggestions to a website or a yum package?
>
>   I have a feeling, that a have crawled through it all
>
>
>   Mikael
>
>
>   There are lots of updates since FC5 was released. You can do an update
>  of everything that you have installed or just an update of the kernel
>  and xorg..
>
>
>   No something else must be wrong.
>
>   I have installed the latest kernel (2.6.16-1.2096_FC5)
>   I have installed the latest NVIDIA driver (NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8756)
>  
> From Livna or Nvidia? 
>   All I get is a black screen, with a blinking dash in the top left
> corner,
>  and a big white mousecursor.
>
>   I have even tried to reinstall without any luck
>
>   Any ideas are welcome
>
>   Mikael
>

[Sam Varshavchik]

Mikael Rasmussen writes:

>  No something else must be wrong.
>  
>  I have installed the latest kernel (2.6.16-1.2096_FC5)
>  I have installed the latest NVIDIA driver (NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8756)
>  
>  All I get is a black screen, with a blinking dash in the top left corner, 
>  and a big white mousecursor.
>  
>  I have even tried to reinstall without any luck 
Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software driver 
that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've installed it, 
Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries, permanently screwing up 
your system completely, beyond all repair.

If you want to use non-free software, other Linux distributions are more 
appropriate.  Fedora's designed to run free software only.  If you want to 
continue to try to fix whatever the problem is, you must do the following.

1.  Remove all nvidia software
2.  Remove the kernel RPMs
3.  Remove all xorg RPMs
4.  Reinstall all xorg and kernel RPMs
5.  Use "rpm -V" to verify that all xorg and kernel RPM packages have 
been succesfully restored, without being tampered by nvidia's binary blobs
6.  Use system-config-display to generate a fresh xorg configuration
7.  Try to start X

Only if Xorg still fails to start, at this point, will anyone who's really 
knowledgeable on X matter will be able to help you.  Then, after X starts, 
you can try reinstall Nvidia's non-free drivers.  If X continues to work, 
congratulations, you've fixed whatever was broken.  If X stops working 
again, take it up with Nvidia.

But, if the reason you posted here is only to get help with Nvidia's 
software, then this is the wrong place to ask for help.  You'll help a 
better chance of getting help from Nvidia's forums, instead of this mailing 
list.

I can guarantee you, that, as soon as you've mentioned Nvidia's binary blob, 
all the experienced technical people around here have automatically tuned 
you out.  Loading Nvidia's non-free driver, into a system that's based on 
free software components only, is analogous to peeling off the "removing 
this sticker voids warranty" on electronics gear.

[Jörn Rink]

Am Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:32:58 -0400
hat Sam Varshavchik <mrsam(a)courier-mta.com&gt; (Sam Varshavchik) folgendes
geschrieben:

Hi,

>  Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software
>  driver that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've
>  installed it, Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries,
>  permanently screwing up your system completely, beyond all repair. 

i can understand your problem with a non open source driver in fedora.
But the NVidia driver is free ;-)

In my years using NVidia drivers under Redhat (think 5.x) , these
drivers never screw up my system.

In the early years i use linux (10 years ago) i have to use an opengl
card, and i thanked god, that nvidia makes a driver that speed up
opengl under linux. OK, it was not open-source, but it works and
the gl speed was 1000 times faster than the original X11 driver. For
me, speed was an argument, because i maked gl visualization of
3d fluid stream data. The alternative was a sgi sytem, that we had in
our university and use MESA to visualize it, but IMHO a bad alternative
and for a student not payable.

And the driver is more stable and the installation is much easier today
than 10 years ago.


And now to the problem itself:

Take a look in the log file from X, post the device section of the
xorg.conf here, is the kernel module running? Are there entries
in /etc/modprobe.conf?
Have you installed the nvidia driver or do you have problems with the
native driver?

And please: Quote, and do not quote ALL, when you answer ;-)

CU

Jörn Rink 



-- 
Nine (not 9)
Never trust a hippie

[Sam Varshavchik]

Jörn Rink writes:

>  Am Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:32:58 -0400
>  hat Sam Varshavchik <mrsam(a)courier-mta.com&gt; (Sam Varshavchik) folgendes
>  geschrieben:
>  
>  Hi,
>  
> > Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software
> > driver that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've
> > installed it, Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries,
> > permanently screwing up your system completely, beyond all repair.
>  
>  
>  i can understand your problem with a non open source driver in fedora.
>  But the NVidia driver is free ;-) 
No, it's not.  Where's the source code for the entire driver?

>  In my years using NVidia drivers under Redhat (think 5.x) , these
>  drivers never screw up my system. 
That's good to know.  But, you're on your own.  If it never breaks for you. 
Great.  If it breaks, but you can figure out how to fix it, also great.  If 
you can't, tough luck.  The only help you can expect would be from other 
users, making, mostly, random guesses.  No developer will going to help you. 
They will not care, in the least bit, how long you've been using the nvidia 
driver without any problems.

[Jörn Rink]

Am Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:48:39 -0400
hat Sam Varshavchik <mrsam(a)courier-mta.com&gt; (Sam Varshavchik) folgendes
geschrieben:

Hi,

>  That's good to know.  But, you're on your own.  If it never
> breaks
>  for you. Great.  If it breaks, but you can figure out how to fix it,
>  also great.  If you can't, tough luck.  The only help you can expect
>  would be from other users, making, mostly, random guesses.  No
>  developer will going to help you. They will not care, in the least
>  bit, how long you've been using the nvidia driver without any
>  problems. 
 
You have not understand my posting.

CU
 Jörn Rink

-- 
Nine (not 9)
Never trust a hippie

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Sun, 2006-04-23 at 08:24 +0200, Jörn Rink wrote:
>  Am Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:48:39 -0400
>  hat Sam Varshavchik <mrsam(a)courier-mta.com&gt; (Sam Varshavchik) folgendes
>  geschrieben:
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  > That's good to know.  But, you're on your own.  If it never breaks
>  > for you. Great.  If it breaks, but you can figure out how to fix it,
>  > also great.  If you can't, tough luck.  The only help you can expect
>  > would be from other users, making, mostly, random guesses.  No
>  > developer will going to help you. They will not care, in the least
>  > bit, how long you've been using the nvidia driver without any
>  > problems.
>   
>  You have not understand my posting.
>  
>  CU
>   Jörn Rink 
I understood it, and you're right.

LX
-- 
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
When the ax entered the forest, the trees said,
"The handle is one of us!"   -- Turkish proverb
Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

[Tim]

On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 22:32 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>  Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries, permanently
>  screwing up your system completely, beyond all repair. 
While I've seen the descriptions of what it did, but it's a bit of an
exaggeration to say that it does it beyond repair.  If you know what
files it's botched, all you have to do is replace them.

-- 
(Currently running FC4, occasionally trying FC5.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 22:32 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>  Mikael Rasmussen writes:
>  
>  > No something else must be wrong.
>  > 
>  > I have installed the latest kernel (2.6.16-1.2096_FC5)
>  > I have installed the latest NVIDIA driver (NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8756)
>  > 
>  > All I get is a black screen, with a blinking dash in the top left corner, 
>  > and a big white mousecursor.
>  > 
>  > I have even tried to reinstall without any luck
>  
>  Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software driver 
>  that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've installed it, 
>  Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries, permanently screwing up 
>  your system completely, beyond all repair. 
That's a bunch of bullcrap.  I've used nvidia drivers since they were
first released, and I've never experienced what you describe or seen
anyone else that has either.  Sounds to me like you're trolling.

>  If you want to use non-free software, other Linux distributions are
> more 
>  appropriate.  Fedora's designed to run free software only. 
Fedora designed to run free software only?  What kind of a fascist are
you anyway?  Fedora will run anything that you can get to run on it, it
doesn't give a rip wether you paid for it or not.  There are no freeware
stormtroopers built into this OS, and I've got tons of closed source
code running on this box right now.  Nobody with swastikas on their arms
knocked on my door when I loaded my nvidia drivers or ran my winblows
programs under FC5.  When I booted this OS up I didn't see any swastikas
in the boot logos.  So while there are alot of Nazis surrounding this OS
like flies, it's still not being designed by Nazis.  This is a free OS,
for both open and closed source, and I don't see that changing anytime
soon, until the Gestapo tracks the developers down and threatens to
throw them in the ovens if they don't comply.

FC is not an ideology it's an operating system.

>    If you want to 
>  continue to try to fix whatever the problem is, you must do the following.
>  
>  1.  Remove all nvidia software
>  2.  Remove the kernel RPMs
>  3.  Remove all xorg RPMs
>  4.  Reinstall all xorg and kernel RPMs
>  5.  Use "rpm -V" to verify that all xorg and kernel RPM packages have 
>  been succesfully restored, without being tampered by nvidia's binary blobs
>  6.  Use system-config-display to generate a fresh xorg configuration
>  7.  Try to start X
>  
>  Only if Xorg still fails to start, at this point, will anyone who's really 
>  knowledgeable on X matter will be able to help you.  Then, after X starts, 
>  you can try reinstall Nvidia's non-free drivers.  If X continues to work, 
>  congratulations, you've fixed whatever was broken.  If X stops working 
>  again, take it up with Nvidia.
>  
>  But, if the reason you posted here is only to get help with Nvidia's 
>  software, then this is the wrong place to ask for help.  You'll help a 
>  better chance of getting help from Nvidia's forums, instead of this mailing 
>  list.
>  
>  I can guarantee you, that, as soon as you've mentioned Nvidia's binary blob, 
>  all the experienced technical people around here have automatically tuned 
>  you out. 
It's best if you don't start talking for everybody else, they are
perfectly capable of speaking their own mind for themselves.  That
includes me, as one of those technical people.

>    Loading Nvidia's non-free driver, into a system that's
> based on 
>  free software components only, is analogous to peeling off the "removing 
>  this sticker voids warranty" on electronics gear. 

Not really, there are tons of users that use both the livna nvidia
drivers and the Nvidia-supplied drivers from the manufacturer.  They do
it because they want to, because they are free agents that can do
whatever they want with their systems.


LX


-- 
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
When the ax entered the forest, the trees said,
"The handle is one of us!"   -- Turkish proverb
Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

[Paul Howarth]

On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 15:26 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
>  On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 22:32 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>  > Mikael Rasmussen writes:
>  > 
>  > > No something else must be wrong.
>  > > 
>  > > I have installed the latest kernel (2.6.16-1.2096_FC5)
>  > > I have installed the latest NVIDIA driver (NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8756)
>  > > 
>  > > All I get is a black screen, with a blinking dash in the top left corner, 
>  > > and a big white mousecursor.
>  > > 
>  > > I have even tried to reinstall without any luck
>  > 
>  > Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software driver 
>  > that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've installed it, 
>  > Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries, permanently screwing up 
>  > your system completely, beyond all repair.
>  
>  That's a bunch of bullcrap.  I've used nvidia drivers since they were
>  first released, and I've never experienced what you describe or seen
>  anyone else that has either.  Sounds to me like you're trolling. 
Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not true.

ref:
http://www.city-fan.org/tips/ProprietaryVideoDriverWarning

>  >   Loading Nvidia's non-free driver, into a system that's
> based on 
>  > free software components only, is analogous to peeling off the "removing 
>  > this sticker voids warranty" on electronics gear.
>  
>  
>  Not really, there are tons of users that use both the livna nvidia
>  drivers and the Nvidia-supplied drivers from the manufacturer.  They do
>  it because they want to, because they are free agents that can do
>  whatever they want with their systems. 
Just don't expect any support if they've borked their system by using
the nVidia installer. The livna repackaging of the same drivers is,
however, sanely done.

Paul.

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 20:44 +0100, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 15:26 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
>  > On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 22:32 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>  > > Mikael Rasmussen writes:
>  > > 
>  > > > No something else must be wrong.
>  > > > 
>  > > > I have installed the latest kernel (2.6.16-1.2096_FC5)
>  > > > I have installed the latest NVIDIA driver (NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8756)
>  > > > 
>  > > > All I get is a black screen, with a blinking dash in the top left corner,
>
>  > > > and a big white mousecursor.
>  > > > 
>  > > > I have even tried to reinstall without any luck
>  > > 
>  > > Take it up with Nvidia.  Nvidia is a closed, proprietary software driver 
>  > > that cannot be debugged.  Furthermore, depending on how you've installed
> it, 
>  > > Nvidia's scripts often overwrite key xorg libraries, permanently screwing
> up 
>  > > your system completely, beyond all repair.
>  > 
>  > That's a bunch of bullcrap.  I've used nvidia drivers since they were
>  > first released, and I've never experienced what you describe or seen
>  > anyone else that has either.  Sounds to me like you're trolling.
>  
>  Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not true.
>  
>  ref:
>  http://www.city-fan.org/tips/ProprietaryVideoDriverWarning 
Given, but the problems you show described in this link are
possibilities endemic of any tarball crossed with any rpm based system,
instead of just using an rpm package.  In addition, saying that a system
is "screwed up beyond all repair" is A) obviously something he has
absolutely no idea about B) is therefore exaggeration/propaganda, and C)
does not occur as often as he might have you believe.  To gleefully
attribute tarball shortcomings solely to proprietary nvidia drivers is
both convenience on his part and intellectual dishonesty.

>  
>  > >   Loading Nvidia's non-free driver, into a system that's based on 
>  > > free software components only, is analogous to peeling off the "removing 
>  > > this sticker voids warranty" on electronics gear.
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Not really, there are tons of users that use both the livna nvidia
>  > drivers and the Nvidia-supplied drivers from the manufacturer.  They do
>  > it because they want to, because they are free agents that can do
>  > whatever they want with their systems.
>  
>  Just don't expect any support if they've borked their system by using
>  the nVidia installer. The livna repackaging of the same drivers is,
>  however, sanely done.
>  
>  Paul.
>   
Exactly, since in fact the installation is now governed by the rpm
protocols.

LX
-- 
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
When the ax entered the forest, the trees said,
"The handle is one of us!"   -- Turkish proverb
Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

[Andy Green]

Mikael Rasmussen wrote:

>  Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate? 
Yep you can tell yourself what the problem is by

less /var/log/Xorg.0.log

have a look towards the end with an eye out for [EE]

-Andy

[Rodolfo Alcazar Portillo]

On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 19:40 +0100, Andy Green wrote:
>  Mikael Rasmussen wrote:
>  
>  > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong - I am desperate? 
try yum install xorg-x11-server-sdk and rebuilding the nvidia module.
-- 
Rodolfo Alcazar
Administrador datos y red

Deutsche Gesellschaft für
Technische Zusammenarbeit (GTZ) GmbH

Programa de Apoyo a la Gestión Pública Descentralizada y 
Lucha Contra La Pobreza - PADEP

Av. Sánchez Lima 2226
T [phone] (121)
C [phone]
E rodolfo.alcazar(a)padep.org.bo
I www.padep.org.bo