Hi All,
Xfce 4.14
When I right click on the desktop and select "Create Launcher", Xfce lists various launchers already installed in the system. Where are these launchers located? .config? .local?
Many thanks, -T
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:14:13 -0700 ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Where are these launchers located?
I presume these are the .desktop files which can be installed in several places, but mostly reside in /usr/share/applications I believe per-user ones can live somewhere under ~/.local/share/applications
On 9/26/21 5:20 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:14:13 -0700 ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Where are these launchers located?
I presume these are the .desktop files which can be installed in several places, but mostly reside in /usr/share/applications I believe per-user ones can live somewhere under ~/.local/share/applications
That was it. Thank you!
On 9/26/21 6:49 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 6:14 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
When I right click on the desktop and select "Create Launcher", Xfce lists various launchers already installed in the system. Where are these launchers located? .config? .local?
I run xfce, and on my system they're in ~/Desktop.
Hi Joe,
I was looking for the data that goes into those desktop icons.
They reside in /usr/share/applications ~/.local/share/application
Thank you anyway! -T
On 27/09/2021 10:03, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
On 9/26/21 6:49 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 6:14 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
When I right click on the desktop and select "Create Launcher", Xfce lists various launchers already installed in the system. Where are these launchers located? .config? .local?
I run xfce, and on my system they're in ~/Desktop.
Hi Joe,
I was looking for the data that goes into those desktop icons.
They reside in /usr/share/applications ~/.local/share/application
Thank you anyway!
~/Desktop/*.desktop files are files that have been placed by the user.
They then appear, suprise?, on the user's desktop.
-- Nothing to see here
On 27/09/2021 11:10, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 8:09 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
~/Desktop/*.desktop files are files that have been placed by the user.
Interesting. I never created a launcher for ~/home, Firefox, Thunderbird or my File System but they were on my desktop the first time I booted Fedora and logged in.
What DE are you using?
AFAIK, no DE places files in a user's Desktop directory. That would simply be a wrong thing to do.
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/26/21 9:55 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
What DE are you using?
Xfce4
AFAIK, no DE places files in a user's Desktop directory. That would simply be a wrong thing to do.
Why? If you want to make sure that it appears on the user's desktop, that's the easiest way to do it.
On 27/09/2021 14:52, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 9:55 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
What DE are you using?
Xfce4
AFAIK, no DE places files in a user's Desktop directory. That would simply be a wrong thing to do.
Why? If you want to make sure that it appears on the user's desktop, that's the easiest way to do it.
Why?
Because developers of DE's shouldn't be putting things in your user area? That is your area. You want them making decisions for you?
I just created a new user on an F34 Xfce system. After login the usual directory structure is created.
[maria@f34x ~]$ ls DesktopDocumentsDownloadsMusicPicturesPublicTemplatesVide
And the Desktop diretory is empty.
[maria@f34x ~]$ ll Desktop/ total 0
Yet, on the desktop there is a "trash", "file system", and "home" entry. So, apparently, the developers had found a less invasive way to do it.
Also, please note that the Xfce Spin does not install thunderbird. My VM is a clean install.
[maria@f34x ~]$ rpm -q thunderbird package thunderbird is not installed
So, if you have a thunderbird.desktop in ~/Desktop it was added after install.
And the install of thunderbird does not add anything in user's ~/Desktop.
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/27/21 1:07 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
Because developers of DE's shouldn't be putting things in your user area? That is your area. You want them making decisions for you?
If I install a program on my machine that is normally started by clicking on a desktop icon, I expect that to be done as part of the installation; I don't expect to have to play games to get it there. Checking, every one of the icons on my desktop except for shortcuts to folders is put there by a file in /home/Desktop.
On 27/09/2021 15:15, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/27/21 1:07 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
Because developers of DE's shouldn't be putting things in your user area? That is your area. You want them making decisions for you?
If I install a program on my machine that is normally started by clicking on a desktop icon, I expect that to be done as part of the installation; I don't expect to have to play games to get it there. Checking, every one of the icons on my desktop except for shortcuts to folders is put there by a file in /home/Desktop.
So, you want the installation of programs to populate all user's ~/Desktop? And you want them to all appear on user's desktops?
That's isn't what is done, and I'm sure you would have noticed if that was the way things are done.
New programs are listed in the appropriate Menu category. That being a "system" level change and not anything to do with the user. The user if free to override the system settings.
For example, the standard laucher for thunderbird is....
/usr/share/applications/mozilla-thunderbird.desktop
But I have customized mine and placed it in
/home/egreshko/.local/share/applications/mozilla-thunderbird.desktop
which takes precedence over the system's settings.
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/27/21 1:23 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
So, you want the installation of programs to populate all user's ~/Desktop? And you want them to all appear on user's desktops?
I am the only user of my computers. I expect programs I install to appear on my desktop. On multi-user desktops, I'd expect them to appear on the desktops of whoever installed them. Other users can right-click on their desktop, select Create Launcher and select the programs they want. I don't expect users to know how to create a launcher in a text editor.
On 28/09/2021 02:09, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/27/21 1:23 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
So, you want the installation of programs to populate all user's ~/Desktop? And you want them to all appear on user's desktops?
I am the only user of my computers. I expect programs I install to appear on my desktop. On multi-user desktops, I'd expect them to appear on the desktops of whoever installed them. Other users can right-click on their desktop, select Create Launcher and select the programs they want. I don't expect users to know how to create a launcher in a text editor.
Developers don't develop for "you". The develop for all end users, plural.
What you expect, and what is reality are vastly different. And just not the way things work. Aside from "flatpak", and other per user application methods, applications are installed via dnf. That installation process is a "system" process and not per user. So, there is no "whoever installed them" question.
I hope you're not advocating that as part of a dnf install of an application that a desktop file is placed in every user's Desktop directory. Otherwise a clean install of Xfce with user creation would end up looking like this.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nyP8tsbsGb-E1wlxznn1pG82FLpW5JGB/view?usp=s...
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/27/21 1:22 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
Developers don't develop for "you". The develop for all end users, plural.
What you expect, and what is reality are vastly different.
Of course. However, there are enough boxen being used the way mine are that developers should take this use case into account, just as they need to provide for multi-user boxen. I've often gotten the impression that the Gnome devs assume that everybody's going to set their computers up and use them the way that the devs do and see no reason to make it possible for any other use case and that's one of the many reasons I don't use Gnome, but that's just an aside. My impression (probably wrong) is that most multi-user machines today are servers, and most workstations (or the equivalent) have only one user, and if so, setting the DE up for multiple people may not be as important as it once was.
On Sep 27, 2021, at 14:10, Joe Zeff joe@zeff.us wrote:
I am the only user of my computers. I expect programs I install to appear on my desktop. On multi-user desktops, I'd expect them to appear on the desktops of whoever installed them. Other users can right-click on their desktop, select Create Launcher and select the programs they want. I don't expect users to know how to create a launcher in a text editor.
Get used to disappointment. That’s not where any DE I’m familiar with will put icons. It sounds like a tablet/phone interface, but those don’t have a traditional “desktop”.
There are some serious flaws with that setup. What happens if a user’s home is full/out of space? What if it is a network drive? What if you have 10,000 users? What if each of them have network drives? What if they have encrypted drives that aren’t accessible to root? What if they don’t have a Desktop directory and their home directory has the maximum directory size? I could keep going.
In general you never want packages to touch a user’s home. It should be up to the program to set up any user configuration, and if that includes adding a launcher *after the user has launched it* then so be it.
There already exists a mechanism for all DEs to get a list of applications available to the user, through the directory of .desktop files. It’s up to the DE to define how to show it.
-- Jonathan Billings
On Mon, 2021-09-27 at 18:22 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
It sounds like a tablet/phone interface, but those don’t have a traditional “desktop”.
There are some serious flaws with that setup. What happens if a user’s home is full/out of space? What if it is a network drive? What if you have 10,000 users? What if each of them have network drives? What if they have encrypted drives that aren’t accessible to root? What if they don’t have a Desktop directory and their home directory has the maximum directory size? I could keep going.
How does the user find the three apps they need amongst a hundred other that they don't use, nor have no clue what they are (often the names mean nothing related to purpose), and aren't even in the same position in the stack from week to week?
My phone wanted to be like that, but I only have the apps I keep on using every day on the home screen. The rest would have been shoveled into several extra screens of unsorted nonsense (in installation order), or alphabetically sorted nonsense (if I let it re-arrange them). Instead, I categorise them into folders of apps for related functions.
Next on the list of mobile phone high irritations is being completely unable to install some pre-installed apps they insist must be on your device. The manufacturer's ones rarely get debugged. If enough complaints roll in about bugs, they often just delete the app instead of fix it.
In general you never want packages to touch a user’s home. It should be up to the program to set up any user configuration, and if that includes adding a launcher *after the user has launched it* then so be it.
There already exists a mechanism for all DEs to get a list of applications available to the user, through the directory of .desktop files. It’s up to the DE to define how to show it.
I agree completely. On Mate, it's like the very old Gnome, clear desktop beyond just three icons: computer, home, and trash. There's categorised menus, and if you want to make a desktop or taskbar launcher for any of them, you can just drag and drop them out of the menu to where you want. Very simple.
Stuff piled on the desktop is under the windows of apps that you're using. Not very useful for multitasking.
On Mon, 2021-09-27 at 01:15 -0600, Joe Zeff wrote:
If I install a program on my machine that is normally started by clicking on a desktop icon, I expect that to be done as part of the installation; I don't expect to have to play games to get it there. Checking, every one of the icons on my desktop except for shortcuts to folders is put there by a file in /home/Desktop.
Are you using a desktop environment that pretends it's like a touchscreen tablet? Where instead of menus, all applications get an icon thrown onto a screen(s) that you have to shuffle through to find.
On 27/09/2021 21:36, Tim via users wrote:
On Mon, 2021-09-27 at 01:15 -0600, Joe Zeff wrote:
If I install a program on my machine that is normally started by clicking on a desktop icon, I expect that to be done as part of the installation; I don't expect to have to play games to get it there. Checking, every one of the icons on my desktop except for shortcuts to folders is put there by a file in /home/Desktop.
Are you using a desktop environment that pretends it's like a touchscreen tablet? Where instead of menus, all applications get an icon thrown onto a screen(s) that you have to shuffle through to find.
FYI, when adding a app to a tablet from the Google Play Store it was common that an icon was added to the screen. This seems to be no longer the case.
I've not added apps to my tablet in quite some time. But I did have to replace my wife's tablet after an unfortunate incident. None of the addon apps added icons to the screen. Which is good, since I could then just add them manually and place them in an order to my wife's preference.
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/27/21 7:36 AM, Tim via users wrote:
Are you using a desktop environment that pretends it's like a touchscreen tablet? Where instead of menus, all applications get an icon thrown onto a screen(s) that you have to shuffle through to find.
I have already stated that I use xfce4. I use it because it doesn't waste memory and cpu time on pointless bells and whistles.
On 9/26/21 8:03 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Hi Joe,
I was looking for the data that goes into those desktop icons.
They reside in /usr/share/applications ~/.local/share/application
I looked into the launcher for Firefox in ~/Desktop and here's what I found:
#!/usr/bin/env xdg-open
[Desktop Entry] Version=1.0 Encoding=UTF-8 Name=Firefox GenericName=Web Browser Comment=Browse the Web Exec=firefox %u Icon=firefox Terminal=false Type=Application StartupWMClass=Firefox-bin MimeType=text/html;text/xml;application/xhtml+xml;application/vnd.mozilla.xul+xml;text/mml; StartupNotify=true X-Desktop-File-Install-Version=0.15 Categories=Network;WebBrowser; Name[en_US]=Firefox
No mention anywhere of either of those directories.
On 27/09/2021 11:08, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 8:03 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Hi Joe,
I was looking for the data that goes into those desktop icons.
They reside in /usr/share/applications ~/.local/share/application
I looked into the launcher for Firefox in ~/Desktop and here's what I found:
#!/usr/bin/env xdg-open
[Desktop Entry] Version=1.0 Encoding=UTF-8 Name=Firefox GenericName=Web Browser Comment=Browse the Web Exec=firefox %u Icon=firefox Terminal=false Type=Application StartupWMClass=Firefox-bin MimeType=text/html;text/xml;application/xhtml+xml;application/vnd.mozilla.xul+xml;text/mml; StartupNotify=true X-Desktop-File-Install-Version=0.15 Categories=Network;WebBrowser; Name[en_US]=Firefox
No mention anywhere of either of those directories.
Right. They are not specified directly. You need to look a the specifications for XDG. One of them is.
There is a set of preference ordered base directories relative to which data files should be searched. This set of directories is defined by the environment variable $XDG_DATA_DIRS
So, what does that environment variable contain on your system?
-- Nothing to see here
On 27/09/2021 12:02, Ed Greshko wrote:
You need to look a the specifications for XDG.
Forgot to include the link...
https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
-- Nothing to see here
On 27/09/2021 14:54, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 9/26/21 10:02 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
So, what does that environment variable contain on your system?
/home/joe/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share:/var/lib/flatpak/exports/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share
And those are the paths that are used by XDG when searching for *desktop files. Also the default ones associated with the user's directory. See the spec.
-- Nothing to see here
On 9/26/21 5:14 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Hi All,
Xfce 4.14
When I right click on the desktop and select "Create Launcher", Xfce lists various launchers already installed in the system. Where are these launchers located? .config? .local?
Many thanks, -T
A better wording would have been "predefined .desktop files" and "templates for system-wide use".
-
Ed Greshko -
Joe Zeff -
Jonathan Billings -
Tim -
ToddAndMargo -
Tom Horsley