good afternoon,
(f39 standalone workstation, last patched Thursday, August 29)
The next group of boot log messages of possible concern is related to cups. I hope that we don't need context lines for this. Here are the messages (with line numbers):
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1634 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseOrder on line 6 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1635 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseAllow on line 7 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1636 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseRemoteProtocols on line 8 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1637 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseAddress on line 9 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1638 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown browse protocol "CUPS" ignored. 1639 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive JobPrivateAccess on line 97 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1640 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive JobPrivateValues on line 98 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1641 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive SubscriptionPrivateAccess on line 99 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1642 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive SubscriptionPrivateValues on line 100 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1643 Aug 30 08:11:12 coyote cupsd[1258]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103
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My printer is an HP Color Laser Jet Pro MFP M180nw.
1. (line 1643) What (if anything) should I do about this, or will future weekly patching or semi-annual upgrades take care of this?
2. Am I correct in assuming that the messages in lines 1634-1642 can be ignored? If no, what should I do about them?
If it's relevant, I have something called "HPLIP Graphical Tools" on my workstation.
On 31 Aug 2024, at 20:17, home user via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
1634 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseOrder on line 6 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.
I think your /etc/cups/cupsd.conf is out of date. I do not see lines with the keywords that the logs report in the file on a fresh install.
Do you have a /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.default? If so cp that over your cupsd.conf. Other wise mv the cupsd.conf out of the way and dnf reinstall cups then you will get a new version.
Barry
On 8/31/24 1:41 PM, Barry Scott wrote:
On 31 Aug 2024, at 20:17, home user via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
1634 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseOrder on line 6 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.
I think your /etc/cups/cupsd.conf is out of date. I do not see lines with the keywords that the logs report in the file on a fresh install.
It's exactly one year old.
Do you have a /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.default? If so cp that over your cupsd.conf. Other wise mv the cupsd.conf out of the way and dnf reinstall cups then you will get a new version.
Barry
Yes, it's 9 days old. Trying the mv and dnf reinstall first...
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-bash.6[cups]: ls classes.conf cupsd.conf.default printers.conf classes.conf.O cupsd.conf.O printers.conf.O client.conf cupsd.conf.rpmnew snmp.conf cups-browsed.conf cupsd.conf.rpmsave snmp.conf.default cups-browsed.conf.old cups-files.conf ssl cups-browsed.conf.rpmnew cups-files.conf.default subscriptions.conf cups-browsed.conf.rpmsave lpoptions subscriptions.conf.O cupsd.conf ppd -bash.7[cups]: mv cupsd.conf oldcupsd.conf -bash.8[cups]: cd -bash.9[~]: dnf reinstall cups Fedora 39 - x86_64 - Updates 63 kB/s | 28 kB 00:00 Fedora 39 - x86_64 - Updates 1.1 MB/s | 4.5 MB 00:03 Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:11 ago on Sat 31 Aug 2024 01:56:21 PM MDT. Installed package cups-1:2.4.10-3.fc39.x86_64 (from updates) not available. Error: No packages marked for reinstall. -bash.10[~]: ls [... snip ...] -bash.11[~]: cd /etc/cups -bash.12[cups]: ls classes.conf cupsd.conf.O printers.conf classes.conf.O cupsd.conf.rpmnew printers.conf.O client.conf cupsd.conf.rpmsave snmp.conf cups-browsed.conf cups-files.conf snmp.conf.default cups-browsed.conf.old cups-files.conf.default ssl cups-browsed.conf.rpmnew lpoptions subscriptions.conf cups-browsed.conf.rpmsave oldcupsd.conf subscriptions.conf.O cupsd.conf.default ppd -bash.13[cups]:
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That did not work. Trying your cp suggestion...
-bash.13[cups]: cp cupsd.conf.default cupsd.conf -bash.14[cups]:
[save message draft; reboot; check boot log]
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1648 Aug 31 14:05:33 coyote systemd[1]: Started atd.service - Deferred execution scheduler. 1649 Aug 31 14:05:34 coyote cupsd[1280]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103 1650 Aug 31 14:05:34 coyote systemd[1]: Started crond.service - Command Scheduler.
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9 boot log messages are gone. Thank-you Barry.
What about the deprecated printer driver message? That is my greater concern.
On 31 Aug 2024, at 22:23, home user via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Installed package cups-1:2.4.10-3.fc39.x86_64 (from updates) not available.
I assume you get that error because your fedora is not up to date. Is that deliberate?
Barry
On 9/1/24 3:43 PM, Barry wrote:
On 31 Aug 2024, at 22:23, home user via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Installed package cups-1:2.4.10-3.fc39.x86_64 (from updates) not available.
I assume you get that error because your fedora is not up to date. Is that deliberate?
Barry
No. It's also not correct. (By the way, I will not upgrade to f40 until mid-October.) I do "dnf --refresh upgrade" almost every Thursday, including this past Thursday (Aug. 26). Here are the top several lines of "dnf history cups":
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-bash.2[~]: dnf history cups ID | Command line | Date and time | Action(s) | Altered -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1628 | upgrade | 2024-08-08 14:24 | I, U | 110 E< 1621 | upgrade | 2024-07-18 13:08 | C, E, I, U | 92 >< 1609 | upgrade | 2024-06-06 12:57 | C, E, I, U | 97 >< 1580 | system-upgrade upgrade | 2024-04-29 11:12 | C, D, E, I, O, | 4895 >< 1576 | upgrade | 2024-04-27 20:25 | C, E, I, U | 147 >< 1565 | upgrade | 2024-03-07 12:37 | C, E, I, U | 61 >< 1541 | upgrade | 2024-01-04 17:42 | Upgrade | 49 ><
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My primary concern is the message regarding a "deprecated" printer driver. As I understand "deprecated", something should already have happened but didn't, and the old way will soon cease working. So: 1. What is it that should have happened but didn't, and why? 2. I need to do something soon. What?
By the way, after doing the "cp" that you suggested, I did do a 1-page test print from LibreOffice Write, and it worked fine.
On 1 Sep 2024, at 23:05, home user via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I assume you get that error because your fedora is not up to date. Is that deliberate? Barry
No. It's also not correct.
Hmm... Then the reinstall should work.
The error means that the version you have installed is nolonger in the repos.
I'm not sure about the deprecation.
Barry
On Sun, 2024-09-01 at 16:05 -0600, home user via users wrote:
My primary concern is the message regarding a "deprecated" printer driver. As I understand "deprecated", something should already have happened but didn't, and the old way will soon cease working. So:
- What is it that should have happened but didn't, and why?
- I need to do something soon. What?
I would think that deprecated in this case would mean something that those people managing CUPS will eventually have to deal with. From time to time you see mention in configuration, man, and log files that some /thing/ is deprecated. Possibly *you* may have to take some action eventually, if you've customised something instead of something being automatically configured.
As far as printer driving is concerned, there's a belief that we should move away from every printer having their own incompatible ways of doing things (yay!), and there should be a common standard (good luck with that) where you can just print to your printer through the system with you having to do little other than choose I want to print to /that/ one.
I'm guessing there's going to be a mass dumping of unsupported printers at some stage (I mean disposal of no-longer usable printers in the trash).
I'm also guessing that various printer makers are only going to half- heartedly support this. You'll probably get some basic print mode, but for good printing you'll have to use their special software. I can't see them giving up their vendor-lock-in mentality.
On Mon, 02 Sep 2024 22:45:35 +0930 "Tim via users" users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Sun, 2024-09-01 at 16:05 -0600, home user via users wrote:
...
As far as printer driving is concerned, there's a belief that we should move away from every printer having their own incompatible ways of doing things (yay!), and there should be a common standard (good luck with that) where you can just print to your printer through the system with you having to do little other than choose I want to print to /that/ one.
...
This is already solved with Postscript. The problem is the vendors, each trying to cut off their piece of bread in their own way.
Tim:
As far as printer driving is concerned, there's a belief that we should move away from every printer having their own incompatible ways of doing things (yay!), and there should be a common standard (good luck with that) where you can just print to your printer through the system with you having to do little other than choose I want to print to /that/ one.
Bob Marčan:
This is already solved with Postscript. The problem is the vendors, each trying to cut off their piece of bread in their own way.
Yes, ages ago, and precisely. Though I wonder if there was a licensing issue with Postscript that made other vendors decide against it, too.
I have a HP office printer, it made a claim that you could simply print a PDF file presented to it via the USB-A port on the front of it.
But I discovered that *ONLY* if you created that PDF on their own special software, first. It couldn't print *any* other PDF file.
On 2 Sep 2024, at 14:15, Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
As far as printer driving is concerned, there's a belief that we should move away from every printer having their own incompatible ways of doing things (yay!), and there should be a common standard (good luck with that) where you can just print to your printer through the system with you having to do little other than choose I want to print to /that/ one
What I understand is that it's a reality because you cannot use a printer with a phone or tablet without the printer being discoverable and self describing with no driver being installer.
A printer that cannot support phones if dead in the market so the makers have to get this working.
Based on that work it will be practical to drop most of cups. I'm not sure when this will happen for the default Fedora install. But it was discussed in depty in the last year on the Fedora devel list.
Barry
Tim:
As far as printer driving is concerned, there's a belief that we should move away from every printer having their own incompatible ways of doing things (yay!), and there should be a common standard (good luck with that) where you can just print to your printer through the system with you having to do little other than choose I want to print to /that/ one
Barry Scott:
What I understand is that it's a reality because you cannot use a printer with a phone or tablet without the printer being discoverable and self describing with no driver being installer.
A printer that cannot support phones if dead in the market so the makers have to get this working.
That I understand, although how often do /those/ users actually want to print something? I think I only tried it once, to see if it worked, in the 6 years that I've owned a phone that could do that.
Based on that work it will be practical to drop most of cups. I'm not sure when this will happen for the default Fedora install. But it was discussed in depty in the last year on the Fedora devel list.
That's making an assumption that everyone is going to abandon their printers from before this era. I can imagine a backlash. Developers are very different from users, and live in a different headspace (or fantasy land, some would say). It wasn't long ago that one declared on this list that everyone has a good graphics card (a load of nonsense) so that running very cpu-intensive desktops was not a problem. It's really only gamers who're going to be running a $1000 graphics card (or any video card actually costs more than the rest of the computer).
Modern printers are quite shite, are expensive with their consumables, often being cheaper to throw away and buy a whole new printer instead of buying new ink (even though the included demo ink packages are very small). And it's not that different with laser printers. Ignoring the consumables issue, they're short lived, anyway, as the plastic bits wear themselves out real quick, and unserviceable waste tanks fill up.
Yes, you can get printers with large ink or toner tanks, though they're quite expensive.
On 3 Sep 2024, at 01:41, Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Modern printers are quite shite, are expensive with their consumables, often being cheaper to throw away and buy a whole new printer instead of buying new ink (even though the included demo ink packages are very small). And it's not that different with laser printers. Ignoring the consumables issue, they're short lived, anyway, as the plastic bits wear themselves out real quick, and unserviceable waste tanks fill up.
Agreed with you for the inkjet printers, but that is not my experience with laser printers. There was a discussion here a while ago that ended up with a recommendation of laser printers and Brother printers as other brands like HP bricking printers with 3rd party ink and other evil practices.
Barry
On Tue, 2024-09-03 at 07:57 +0100, Barry wrote:
On 3 Sep 2024, at 01:41, Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Modern printers are quite shite, are expensive with their consumables, often being cheaper to throw away and buy a whole new printer instead of buying new ink (even though the included demo ink packages are very small). And it's not that different with laser printers. Ignoring the consumables issue, they're short lived, anyway, as the plastic bits wear themselves out real quick, and unserviceable waste tanks fill up.
Agreed with you for the inkjet printers, but that is not my experience with laser printers. There was a discussion here a while ago that ended up with a recommendation of laser printers and Brother printers as other brands like HP bricking printers with 3rd party ink and other evil practices.
+1
I had a Brother laser/scanner for 10 years before having to replace it (a small plastic cog in the paper feed wore out). I got another one that's slightly better with 2-sided printing. Toner is 3rd-party and very reasonably priced. I would never buy an ink-jet printer. If once in a blue moon I actually needed colour I would use a print service.
poc
On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 4:17 PM home user via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
good afternoon,
(f39 standalone workstation, last patched Thursday, August 29)
The next group of boot log messages of possible concern is related to cups. I hope that we don't need context lines for this. Here are the messages (with line numbers):
1634 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseOrder on line 6 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1635 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseAllow on line 7 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1636 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseRemoteProtocols on line 8 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1637 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive BrowseAddress on line 9 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1638 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown browse protocol "CUPS" ignored. 1639 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive JobPrivateAccess on line 97 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1640 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive JobPrivateValues on line 98 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1641 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive SubscriptionPrivateAccess on line 99 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1642 Aug 30 08:11:11 coyote cupsd[1258]: Unknown directive SubscriptionPrivateValues on line 100 of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. 1643 Aug 30 08:11:12 coyote cupsd[1258]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103
My printer is an HP Color Laser Jet Pro MFP M180nw.
The HP specs say this model supports Apple Air Print. That means it should be configured as an IPP printer for current CUPS (IPP on linux came about when Apple stopped supporting CUPS. Until Apple changes AirPrint, IPP should work with AirPrint printers).
On 8/31/24 1:17 PM, home user via users wrote:
good afternoon,
(f39 standalone workstation, last patched Thursday, August 29)
The next group of boot log messages of possible concern is related to cups. I hope that we don't need context lines for this. Here are the messages (with line numbers):
1643 Aug 30 08:11:12 coyote cupsd[1258]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103
My printer is an HP Color Laser Jet Pro MFP M180nw.
If it's relevant, I have something called "HPLIP Graphical Tools" on my workstation.
This morning's weekly patching patched cups:
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-bash.1[~]: dnf info cups Last metadata expiration check: 1:22:27 ago on Thu 05 Sep 2024 11:26:54 AM MDT. Installed Packages Name : cups Epoch : 1 Version : 2.4.10 Release : 6.fc39 Architecture : x86_64 Size : 8.2 M Source : cups-2.4.10-6.fc39.src.rpm Repository : @System From repo : updates
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But I still get the message about printer drivers being deprecated: (from journalctl -b | grep -i cups)
Sep 05 11:37:25 coyote cupsd[1257]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103
I thought about this quite a bit earlier this week. I was wrong to think deprecation should be automatically handled by dnf patching or upgrading. It could in some circumstances be crippling. I think Tim might have been saying something similar earlier this week.
So now the question is what do I need to do to get my workstation's printing clean and up to date?
On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 4:06 PM home user via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
But I still get the message about printer drivers being deprecated: (from journalctl -b | grep -i cups)
Sep 05 11:37:25 coyote cupsd[1257]: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. See https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/103
I thought about this quite a bit earlier this week. I was wrong to think deprecation should be automatically handled by dnf patching or upgrading. It could in some circumstances be crippling. I think Tim might have been saying something similar earlier this week.
So now the question is what do I need to do to get my workstation's printing clean and up to date?
If your printer supports driverless printing, e.g., AirPrint, IPP, or maybe Mopria, using a network connection, you should not be using legacy drivers as support will go away. If you have a USB-only or very old printer that does not support driverless printing you need to plan for the time when it will no longer work with current linux systems. There are efforts to provde IPP adapters for some USB or legacy printers -- see https://github.com/OpenPrinting/ipp-usb
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Barry -
Barry Scott
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Bob Marčan -
George N. White III -
home user -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Tim