Many emails in my Inbox no longer display. I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom. But many older emails simply do not display when I click on the email in the list.
I have exited TB and restarted it to no avail.
On 07/04/2015 12:56 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Many emails in my Inbox no longer display. I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom. But many older emails simply do not display when I click on the email in the list.
I have exited TB and restarted it to no avail.
Try this: in the list of Folders, right-click on Inbox and go to Properties. Click on the button marked Repair Folder, then OK. This may help.
On 07/04/2015 02:04 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 07/04/2015 12:56 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Many emails in my Inbox no longer display. I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom. But many older emails simply do not display when I click on the email in the list.
I have exited TB and restarted it to no avail.
Try this: in the list of Folders, right-click on Inbox and go to Properties. Click on the button marked Repair Folder, then OK. This may help.
Well, that was interesting!
Many messages that WERE getting displayed, have completely disappeared after running Repair. That is Baaaaaad!!!
On 07/04/2015 01:23 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Well, that was interesting!
Many messages that WERE getting displayed, have completely disappeared after running Repair. That is Baaaaaad!!!
I'm very, very sorry; I never would have thought that using Repair would make things worse. I would suggest that you compact the folder if you haven't recently, but at this point, I don't know if it would be safe. Instead, I'll point you to Thunderbird Support at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird and ask that you let us know how things turn out.
On 07/04/2015 02:33 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 07/04/2015 01:23 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Well, that was interesting!
Many messages that WERE getting displayed, have completely disappeared after running Repair. That is Baaaaaad!!!
I'm very, very sorry; I never would have thought that using Repair would make things worse. I would suggest that you compact the folder if you haven't recently, but at this point, I don't know if it would be safe. Instead, I'll point you to Thunderbird Support at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird and ask that you let us know how things turn out.
This machine is on fc20 and TB is at highest rev for fc20 in the updates. So, perhaps what happened here may have been a bug that got fixed later?? It is strange that other people did not report this on this list - but perhaps they did back when F20 was recent.
On 07/04/2015 02:33 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 07/04/2015 01:23 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Well, that was interesting!
Many messages that WERE getting displayed, have completely disappeared after running Repair. That is Baaaaaad!!!
I'm very, very sorry; I never would have thought that using Repair would make things worse. I would suggest that you compact the folder if you haven't recently, but at this point, I don't know if it would be safe. Instead, I'll point you to Thunderbird Support at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird and ask that you let us know how things turn out.
Well, now I must ask the list that since the messages that disappeared running the Repair folder in TB, are still on the gmail server. How can I get TB to download them all? Is there something I can do to TB or to my gmail account on mail.google.com that will make TB re-download them?
On 07/04/2015 01:44 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Well, now I must ask the list that since the messages that disappeared running the Repair folder in TB, are still on the gmail server. How can I get TB to download them all? Is there something I can do to TB or to my gmail account on mail.google.com that will make TB re-download them?
If you're connecting over IMAP, you can delete the cache:
rm -rf .thunderbird/*.default/ImapMail/imap.googlemail.com*
Though this should be a reminder that backups matter.
Also consider using Maildir instead of the default Berkeley format: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
On 07/04/2015 03:00 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
On 07/04/2015 01:44 PM, jd1008 wrote:
Well, now I must ask the list that since the messages that disappeared running the Repair folder in TB, are still on the gmail server. How can I get TB to download them all? Is there something I can do to TB or to my gmail account on mail.google.com that will make TB re-download them?
If you're connecting over IMAP, you can delete the cache:
rm -rf .thunderbird/*.default/ImapMail/imap.googlemail.com*
Using pop - I had had undesireable experience with Imap, so I switched to pop. One of the reasons was that I needed to re-read old messages in situations where I had no internet access.
Though this should be a reminder that backups matter.
Goes without saying :) I boldly ran the repair without first backing up Inbox :)
Also consider using Maildir instead of the default Berkeley format: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
Not sure what that gives me. Does is turn each message into a separate file? If so, not for me.
On 07/04/2015 02:16 PM, jd1008 wrote:
On 07/04/2015 03:00 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
If you're connecting over IMAP, you can delete the cache: rm -rf .thunderbird/*.default/ImapMail/imap.googlemail.com*
Using pop - I had had undesireable experience with Imap, so I switched to pop. One of the reasons was that I needed to re-read old messages in situations where I had no internet access.
In that case, you can probably leave that in place, but set up a second Gmail profile using IMAP, temporarily. IMAP has access to the full message store, and you can copy the messages locally. I don't know of a way to make Thunderbird download your mail otherwise. Maybe move everything to the Inbox would work? It's hard to say.
Either way, you can configure IMAP to keep a copy of all mail locally, and I believe that's the default. Access to mail while offline should work just fine with IMAP.
Though this should be a reminder that backups matter.
Goes without saying :) I boldly ran the repair without first backing up Inbox :)
By that time, it was already too late. Backing up corrupt data really doesn't do you much good. You needed a backup from before it became corrupt. So, I'll restate my original point:
*Regular* backups matter. Don't skip them. Don't leave them until you feel like you might need them. Run backups on a predictable, regular schedule.
Also consider using Maildir instead of the default Berkeley format: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
Not sure what that gives me. Does is turn each message into a separate file? If so, not for me.
Yes, Maildir keeps each message in a separate file. It's much less likely to become corrupt than mbox.
With mbox, any time you remove a message from a folder (either deleting it or moving it to another folder), the entire mbox file has to be re-written. If you delete/move a message from a very large folder, that can generate a lot of disk activity, and creates a long window in which an interruption can corrupt the folder. With Maildir, all operations should be atomic. An interruption should never destroy an entire folder.
On 07/05/2015 12:45 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
By that time, it was already too late. Backing up corrupt data really doesn't do you much good. You needed a backup from before it became corrupt.
Yes and no. If you make a backup copy of your data just before trying to recover and the recovery process messes up, you can always try again.
On 07/05/2015 12:55 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
Yes and no. If you make a backup copy of your data just before trying to recover and the recovery process messes up, you can always try again.
That really only matters if the index is damaged, and not the data file. If the mbox data file is damaged, recovery won't do you any good.
On 07/05/2015 01:03 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
On 07/05/2015 12:55 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
Yes and no. If you make a backup copy of your data just before trying to recover and the recovery process messes up, you can always try again.
That really only matters if the index is damaged, and not the data file. If the mbox data file is damaged, recovery won't do you any good.
Sometimes there are ways to fix the problem by editing the mbox itself. If memory serves, the file can become unreadable if there's garbage in front of the beginning of the first message. (This used to be a problem when I did tech support for an ISP; a customer couldn't download their email because of this. After it became clear that this was the issue, somebody wrote a script to clean that out, but we had to send a request to the NOC to have it done.) I don't know what the recovery process does, or if it can handle this type of thing, but it's always best if you have a way to back out of a "fix" that didn't.
On 07/05/2015 01:45 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
On 07/04/2015 02:16 PM, jd1008 wrote:
On 07/04/2015 03:00 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
If you're connecting over IMAP, you can delete the cache: rm -rf .thunderbird/*.default/ImapMail/imap.googlemail.com*
Using pop - I had had undesireable experience with Imap, so I switched to pop. One of the reasons was that I needed to re-read old messages in situations where I had no internet access.
In that case, you can probably leave that in place, but set up a second Gmail profile using IMAP, temporarily. IMAP has access to the full message store, and you can copy the messages locally. I don't know of a way to make Thunderbird download your mail otherwise. Maybe move everything to the Inbox would work? It's hard to say.
Either way, you can configure IMAP to keep a copy of all mail locally, and I believe that's the default. Access to mail while offline should work just fine with IMAP.
Google will not let me do that :( I already tried. I have no idea why gmail is not letting TB to connect to same account (using a different profile that uses IMAP instead of POP).
Though this should be a reminder that backups matter.
Goes without saying :) I boldly ran the repair without first backing up Inbox :)
By that time, it was already too late. Backing up corrupt data really doesn't do you much good. You needed a backup from before it became corrupt. So, I'll restate my original point:
*Regular* backups matter. Don't skip them. Don't leave them until you feel like you might need them. Run backups on a predictable, regular schedule.
Also consider using Maildir instead of the default Berkeley format: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
Not sure what that gives me. Does is turn each message into a separate file? If so, not for me.
Yes, Maildir keeps each message in a separate file. It's much less likely to become corrupt than mbox.
With mbox, any time you remove a message from a folder (either deleting it or moving it to another folder), the entire mbox file has to be re-written. If you delete/move a message from a very large folder, that can generate a lot of disk activity, and creates a long window in which an interruption can corrupt the folder. With Maildir, all operations should be atomic. An interruption should never destroy an entire folder.
I had tried evolution mail client, which used a mail dir. Did not like the evolution interface, so I switched to TB. It was long ago, and I do not even recall what it was I did not like about :)
On 07/05/2015 12:45 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
With mbox, any time you remove a message from a folder (either deleting it or moving it to another folder), the entire mbox file has to be re-written. If you delete/move a message from a very large folder, that can generate a lot of disk activity, and creates a long window in which an interruption can corrupt the folder. With Maildir, all operations should be atomic. An interruption should never destroy an entire folder.
Not so. The message is still there, but it's marked in the index as deleted. The file isn't re-written until it's compacted.
On 07/05/2015 01:23 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
Not so. The message is still there, but it's marked in the index as deleted. The file isn't re-written until it's compacted.
I know. And that reduced the frequency of the re-write somewhat, but it doesn't change it fundamentally. Removing a message from a folder eventually requires that the entire folder data file be re-written, and that is usually when mbox files become corrupt. If the index is damaged, it'll become corrupt. If the operation is interrupted, it may become corrupt. mbox is a fairly fragile format, and one the scales very poorly.
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 13:38 -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
On 07/05/2015 01:23 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
Not so. The message is still there, but it's marked in the index as deleted. The file isn't re-written until it's compacted.
I know. And that reduced the frequency of the re-write somewhat, but it doesn't change it fundamentally. Removing a message from a folder eventually requires that the entire folder data file be re-written, and that is usually when mbox files become corrupt. If the index is damaged, it'll become corrupt. If the operation is interrupted, it may become corrupt. mbox is a fairly fragile format, and one the scales very poorly.
In every case I've seen, rewriting is done by concatenating all non -deleted messages to a new mbox file, then replacing the original. The last step is normally close to atomic, in fact it's safe to assume it will be atomic if both files are on the same filesystem. YMMV if you have more than one MUA writing to the same mbox concurrently.
poc
On 07/04/15 15:44, jd1008 wrote: <<>>
Well, now I must ask the list that since the messages that disappeared running the Repair folder in TB, are still on the gmail server.
How can I get TB to download them all?
Is there something I can do to TB or to my gmail account on mail.google.com that will make TB re-download them?
. please excuse the delay in replying to your question. something came up that needed my attention.
i have not read all post to this thread, so this question may have already been answered.
in the account directory of pop3 servers is a file named 'popstate.dat'.
this file is a record of email downloads and has form of;
# POP3 State File # This is a generated file! Do not edit.
*inbound.att.net geleem@bellsouth.net k AFm/imIAAc7mVZnAUgsAaAaAK/M 1436139771 k AJG/imIAABRjVZmJUAIygF2hc2w 1436130430
the last 2 lines shown are the records of the emails downloaded. the value after the lone "k" is know as the "X-UIDL:" and is in the first few lines of an email header.
to re-download emails, 1st, put thunderbird in 'offline' state, then close thunderbird, open a file browser to the email account directory, make a backup copy of the file "popstate.dat".
next, open "popstate.dat" file with a _plain_text_ editor, remove all of the "X-UIDL:" lines, save file.
reopen thunderbird, open "Account Settings", disable *all* email accounts except for gmail account.
highlight gmail account, enable online state, click "Get Mail" icon, all your gmail emails should download.
if above does not happen, it is because gmail is preventing it.
after downloading emails, re-enable all email accounts.
you can manually remove dupes, or you can then install an add-on to thunderbird to remove dupes. there are 2 to chose from. which ever churns you butter better. ;-)
hth.
On 07/05/2015 09:09 PM, g wrote:
On 07/04/15 15:44, jd1008 wrote: <<>>
Well, now I must ask the list that since the messages that disappeared running the Repair folder in TB, are still on the gmail server.
How can I get TB to download them all?
Is there something I can do to TB or to my gmail account on mail.google.com that will make TB re-download them?
. please excuse the delay in replying to your question. something came up that needed my attention.
i have not read all post to this thread, so this question may have already been answered.
in the account directory of pop3 servers is a file named 'popstate.dat'.
this file is a record of email downloads and has form of;
# POP3 State File # This is a generated file! Do not edit.
*inbound.att.net geleem@bellsouth.net k AFm/imIAAc7mVZnAUgsAaAaAK/M 1436139771 k AJG/imIAABRjVZmJUAIygF2hc2w 1436130430
the last 2 lines shown are the records of the emails downloaded. the value after the lone "k" is know as the "X-UIDL:" and is in the first few lines of an email header.
to re-download emails, 1st, put thunderbird in 'offline' state, then close thunderbird, open a file browser to the email account directory, make a backup copy of the file "popstate.dat".
next, open "popstate.dat" file with a _plain_text_ editor, remove all of the "X-UIDL:" lines, save file.
reopen thunderbird, open "Account Settings", disable *all* email accounts except for gmail account.
highlight gmail account, enable online state, click "Get Mail" icon, all your gmail emails should download.
if above does not happen, it is because gmail is preventing it.
after downloading emails, re-enable all email accounts.
you can manually remove dupes, or you can then install an add-on to thunderbird to remove dupes. there are 2 to chose from. which ever churns you butter better. ;-)
hth.
I saved your message in my directory of How-To. Mega Thanx!
On 07/06/15 11:16, jd1008 wrote: <<>>
I saved your message in my directory of How-To. Mega Thanx!
. most welcome.
i do hope gmail will allow.
On 07|--04|--15 14:56, jd1008 wrote:
Many emails in my Inbox no longer display.
what is displayed is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Folders > [X] All
also, in main menu, you can select;
Edit > [account name] > Server Settings > Server Settings
[X] Leave messages on server [ ] For at most [ ] days [X] Until I delete them
this will leave emails on server for you to periodically log into your account and delete old emails.
I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom.
order of display is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Sort by > { personal selections }
But many older emails simply do not display when I click on the email in the list.
this may be cause by a corrupted Inbox.
there are many causes. one that is debated as to it causing problems is if you have subfolders under account's Inbox.
another cause is to move or delete emails and not compress Inbox periodically.
a sure way not to corrupt Inbox is to _filter_all_incoming_email_ to subfolders under account or Local Folders.
create a new sub folders under "account name" or "Local Folders".
drag and drop sub folders from under "Inbox" to under new subfolder, or Local Folders, so that you have;
example:
account name or Local Folders +--Inbox +--Drafts +--Templates +--Sent +--Trash | +--Family <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here | +--Uncle Bob | +--Aunt Mary | +--Mom and dad | +--Grandpa | +--friends <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here | +--bill | +--bob | +--jane | +--unclassified-emails <- name this what ever you wish | +--001 <- name these what ever you wish | +--002 | +--003 | +--sorted-email <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here +--Business email +--Family account +--Alternate account
after you have new tree set up, create filters to move emails to proper subfolders.
any new emails that come in that you do not have filter for, drag and drop them to 'unclassified-emails' subfolders.
i have used account Inbox filtering from as far back as 1st days of netscape and i have yet to loose any emails.
if you create filters all you family, friends, subscribed lists, any email that shows in Inbox will be new desired or spam.
if new desired, create a filter and a subfolder for it.
if spam, highlight and click 'Spam' icon to mark as such. after a few such markings, spam filtering will automatically pick it up and move to Spam folder.
granted, all of this takes time and effort on your part. but once it is done, you will have very little to worry about as to loosing emails and spam.
I have exited TB and restarted it to no avail.
that seldom works.
On 07/04/2015 05:55 PM, g wrote:
On 07|--04|--15 14:56, jd1008 wrote:
Many emails in my Inbox no longer display.
what is displayed is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Folders > [X] Allalso, in main menu, you can select;
Edit > [account name] > Server Settings > Server Settings[X] Leave messages on server [ ] For at most [ ] days [X] Until I delete them
this will leave emails on server for you to periodically log into your account and delete old emails.
These are indeed the current settings.
I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom.
order of display is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Sort by > { personal selections }
I always keep that sort by date, such that most recent is at bottom.
But many older emails simply do not display when I click on the email in the list.
this may be cause by a corrupted Inbox.
there are many causes. one that is debated as to it causing problems is if you have subfolders under account's Inbox.
another cause is to move or delete emails and not compress Inbox periodically.
a sure way not to corrupt Inbox is to _filter_all_incoming_email_ to subfolders under account or Local Folders.
create a new sub folders under "account name" or "Local Folders".
drag and drop sub folders from under "Inbox" to under new subfolder, or Local Folders, so that you have;
example:
account name or Local Folders +--Inbox +--Drafts +--Templates +--Sent +--Trash | +--Family <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here | +--Uncle Bob | +--Aunt Mary | +--Mom and dad | +--Grandpa | +--friends <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here | +--bill | +--bob | +--jane | +--unclassified-emails <- name this what ever you wish | +--001 <- name these what ever you wish | +--002 | +--003 | +--sorted-email <- top folder - do NOT filter or move messages to here +--Business email +--Family account +--Alternate account
Non of my subfolders are under Inbox.
after you have new tree set up, create filters to move emails to proper subfolders.
This is a good idea if I can filter by sender. I will look into it.
any new emails that come in that you do not have filter for, drag and drop them to 'unclassified-emails' subfolders.
i have used account Inbox filtering from as far back as 1st days of netscape and i have yet to loose any emails.
if you create filters all you family, friends, subscribed lists, any email that shows in Inbox will be new desired or spam.
if new desired, create a filter and a subfolder for it.
if spam, highlight and click 'Spam' icon to mark as such. after a few such markings, spam filtering will automatically pick it up and move to Spam folder.
granted, all of this takes time and effort on your part. but once it is done, you will have very little to worry about as to loosing emails and spam.
I have exited TB and restarted it to no avail.
that seldom works.
On 07/04/15 20:15, jd1008 wrote:
On 07/04/2015 05:55 PM, g wrote:
On 07|--04|--15 14:56, jd1008 wrote:
Many emails in my Inbox no longer display.
what is displayed is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Folders > [X] Allalso, in main menu, you can select;
Edit > [account name] > Server Settings > Server Settings[X] Leave messages on server [ ] For at most [ ] days [X] Until I delete them
this will leave emails on server for you to periodically log into your account and delete old emails.
These are indeed the current settings.
. then you have lost nothing because old emails are still on server.
I mean I can see the emails listed in chronological order from oldest at top to newest at bottom.
order of display is set by select in main menu bar;
View > Sort by > { personal selections }I always keep that sort by date, such that most recent is at bottom.
. most logical order.
your choice, as is for myself and most others.
<<>>
Non of my subfolders are under Inbox.
. this is good as long as you do not have top folder receiving emails.
after you have new tree set up, create filters to move emails to proper subfolders.
This is a good idea if I can filter by sender. I will look into it.
. in selecting what to filter, the sender is selected with "From".
View > Sort by > From
-
g -
Gordon Messmer -
JD -
Joe Zeff -
Patrick O'Callaghan