I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered)
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered)
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
Been meaning to install F15 to check this out because this happened to me with the Alpha and I thought that I'd screwed up royally somewhere or that F15 still wasn't ready for use/testing...
Tom Horsley wrote:
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
systemd has a few hard-coded bind mounts.
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
You could file an enhancement to hide bind mounts by default.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
Not unless you go back to upstart as your init daemon.
On Wed, 25 May 2011 13:39:53 -0500 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
You could file an enhancement to hide bind mounts by default.
But I've got bind mounts of my own in f14 and they look like this when I run "mount":
/caliban/home on /home type none (rw,bind) /caliban/web-content/html on /var/www/html type none (rw,bind)
And those bind mounts don't show up in df
The mounts I see on f15 don't say "bind" anywhere, so they are terribly confusing and I really wonder if they are bind mounts.
Tom Horsley wrote:
The mounts I see on f15 don't say "bind" anywhere, so they are terribly confusing and I really wonder if they are bind mounts.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger. :)
The release notes[1] don't make good light of the changes systemd[2] brought, unfortunately. The times I've seen the mounts from systemd mentioned they were called bind mounts, but yes, I don't see "bind" in the mount options either. I cannot find any documentation that makes light of what they really are. You are best off asking your question on the devel list or sifting through the systemd code base.
[1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/Release_Notes/sect-Releas... [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd
On 05/25/2011 11:39 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Tom Horsley wrote:
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
systemd has a few hard-coded bind mounts.
...and the benefit of this is what? Please understand, I'm not objecting to change if it's for the better. I do, however, distrust change for its own sake, such as what's going on with Gnome 3.
As an example of "change for the better," when I first started using X, it took me a little while to get used to having a desktop that was bigger than the screen with a viewport that I could pan to different parts of it, but after a little experimentation and practice, I grew to love it. Then, it changed to multiple desktops; not really better, but certainly easier for newcomers to understand.
Much of what's "under the hood" in Linux and X has been there, essentially unchanged, for well over a decade. In computer terms, that's several lifetimes. It's stayed that way because it's worked and (AFAICT) didn't need changing. The attitude has always been "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Now, it's changing and I have to wonder: was there something wrong with the old way, or is there something significantly better about the new? If so, I'd like to know what it is, not because I'm resistant to change but because I'd like to learn.
Back when I did tech support for an ISP, I turned myself into a Windows Internals geek. Now that I run Linux, I'm something of a Linux Internals geek. I may not be able to follow the code any more, but I can at least familiarize myself with what programs are doing what and why.
Sorry for such a long post, but I felt it important to explain why I'm asking and what kind of answer I'm looking for.
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Joe Zeff joe@zeff.us wrote:
...and the benefit of this is what?
If you mean what is the need for systemd, this page might help:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
AFAIU systemd is more of a feature enhancement rather than bug fix. So if you strictly adhere to "don't change what is not broken" then this falls outside that category. But then again this is Fedora, known to live on the bleeding edge of *nix technologies.
Hope this helps.
On 05/25/2011 12:28 PM, suvayu ali wrote:
If you mean what is the need for systemd, this page might help:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
AFAIU systemd is more of a feature enhancement rather than bug fix. So if you strictly adhere to "don't change what is not broken" then this falls outside that category.
Thank you. If there's a better way to do something, the old way could be considered broken by comparison. I notice that there's not only no comments, there doesn't seem to be a way to enter them. Of course, with the author warning us that he's going to remove any comments he finds off-topic, inappropriate or offensive, we have no way of knowing if there've been any comments because he hasn't said he'd leave comments making polite criticism. (Not that I think he's done that, it's just that he hasn't said he wouldn't. Among other things, I'm a writer; I probably pay closer attention to words and how they're used than most people do.)
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com wrote:
Tom Horsley wrote:
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
systemd has a few hard-coded bind mounts.
Is there an explanation of why? (I'm planning to install F15 this weekend and read through Lennart's "systemd for admins" posts so maybe I'll find the answer there.)
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
You could file an enhancement to hide bind mounts by default.
Google yields lsblk as a having a more civilized output...
Am 25.05.2011 um 20:39 schrieb Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com:
Tom Horsley wrote:
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
systemd has a few hard-coded bind mounts.
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
You could file an enhancement to hide bind mounts by default.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
Not unless you go back to upstart as your init daemon.
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
# chkconfig sandbox off
Then reboot.
On Wed, 25 May 2011 22:32:41 +0200 Harald Hoyer wrote:
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
# chkconfig sandbox off
Then reboot.
By golly, you are right! I turned off sandbox and now only one directory is mounted on my root partition (the expected /). Much less confusing. Still have lots of cgroup stuff, but it doesn't look like a disk, so it is easy to ignore.
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com wrote:
Harald Hoyer wrote:
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
Yes, this was not documented in the release notes. It is part of SELinux/pam_namespace usage.
Is there any wiki or manpage I can look at to better understand how this works? A quick glance at the systemd wiki page shows only instructions on usage, not discussions about how it works.
On 05/26/2011 03:43 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com wrote:
Harald Hoyer wrote:
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
Yes, this was not documented in the release notes. It is part of SELinux/pam_namespace usage.
Is there any wiki or manpage I can look at to better understand how this works? A quick glance at the systemd wiki page shows only instructions on usage, not discussions about how it works.
As already noted, this isn't related to systemd but in case, you are looking for systemd documentation, here is a comprehensive list of them
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd_documentation
Rahul
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
As already noted, this isn't related to systemd but in case, you are looking for systemd documentation, here is a comprehensive list of them
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd_documentation
Thanks Rahul, earlier I think I had misunderstood the comment about sandbox.
Rahul
On Wed, 25 May 2011, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Harald Hoyer wrote:
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
Yes, this was not documented in the release notes. It is part of SELinux/pam_namespace usage.
I've been looking, but I haven't found it. If I do find it, will it answer the question?
On Wed, 25 May 2011, Tom Horsley wrote:
I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=$ /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barri$ /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,b$ /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barr$
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
Whatever is doing it, what is being done? Is the same partition really on four different mount points? To me, the above looks rather scary, rather like my first encounter with LVM. It was in the middle of an install.
To me, the most important thing that should be in release notes is what will break from an extant release. The next is what will look different enough to be scary. I'm not sure which this falls under.
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On 05/26/2011 11:43 AM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2011, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Harald Hoyer wrote:
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
Yes, this was not documented in the release notes. It is part of SELinux/pam_namespace usage.
I've been looking, but I haven't found it. If I do find it, will it answer the question?
On Wed, 25 May 2011, Tom Horsley wrote:
I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=$ /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barri$ /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,b$ /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barr$
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
Whatever is doing it, what is being done? Is the same partition really on four different mount points? To me, the above looks rather scary, rather like my first encounter with LVM. It was in the middle of an install.
To me, the most important thing that should be in release notes is what will break from an extant release. The next is what will look different enough to be scary. I'm not sure which this falls under.
This has been like this for many releases. All the way back to RHEL5, has this.
There is an open bug on pam_namespace that will hopefully eliminate the need for this.
When you use namespaces on mount tables you need to separate out file systems, so you can say something like I want these file systems shared with the entire system, while these other file systems private the each namespace. pam_namespace sets up a private namespace on $HOME and /tmp. In order to do this is needs /tmp and $HOME to be on their own file system. Therefore the init script bind mounts /tmp on /tmp and /home on /home causing the problem you are seeing. It also executes the appropriate commands to make "/" shared and /tmp and /home private.
If you do not use pam_namespace or sandbox you can disable the init script and on the next boot the problem will go away.
sandbox tool now is smart about setting up these private/bind mounts when you run the sandbox, rather then making them the system defaults. I wrote a patch for this for pam_namespace, when the patch is applied to pam_namespace, I will ask systemd to setup "/" as shared and remove the init script altogether.
What is the sandbox and why do I need/want one? Thanks
JP
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Harald Hoyer harald.hoyer@gmail.comwrote:
Am 25.05.2011 um 20:39 schrieb Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com:
Tom Horsley wrote:
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
systemd has a few hard-coded bind mounts.
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
You could file an enhancement to hide bind mounts by default.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
Not unless you go back to upstart as your init daemon.
Most of them are from the sandbox init script .... NOT from systemd!!
# chkconfig sandbox off
Then reboot.
users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
On 05/28/2011 02:09 AM, Javier Perez wrote:
What is the sandbox and why do I need/want one? Thanks
https://lwn.net/Articles/334737/
http://video.linux.com/video/1565
Rahul
On 05/25/2011 12:17 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered)
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
Hha! That's nothing. I raise you.
Here is my fstab:
# cat /etc/fstab
# # /etc/fstab # Created by anaconda on Thu Mar 10 01:14:06 2011 # # Accessible filesystems, by reference, are maintained under '/dev/disk' # See man pages fstab(5), findfs(8), mount(8) and/or blkid(8) for more info # UUID=f73ffe10-516a-47a5-b139-d52f36b1d58e / ext4 defaults 1 1 UUID=cd1e4fc9-26cb-463f-973f-067490589686 /boot ext4 defaults 1 2 UUID=33d692f2-f40f-4121-844a-8fbd74aced41 /home btrfs defaults 1 2 UUID=9866462a-0124-49d8-a8d2-0f2248a683ab swap swap defaults 0 0 tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs defaults 0 0 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
Here is the output of mount:
# mount /proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) /sys on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=4082156k,nr_inodes=1020539,mode=755) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755) /dev/sda3 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,release_agent=/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent,name=systemd) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/ns type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,ns) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpu) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio) systemd-1 on /dev/mqueue type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=29,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct) systemd-1 on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=30,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct) systemd-1 on /dev/hugepages type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=31,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct) systemd-1 on /sys/kernel/security type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=32,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct) systemd-1 on /sys/kernel/debug type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=34,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct) tmpfs on /media type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=755) /dev/sda1 on /boot type ext4 (rw,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered) /dev/sdb1 on /home type btrfs (rw,relatime) binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,relatime) /dev/sda3 on /tmp type ext4 (rw,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered) /dev/sda3 on /var/tmp type ext4 (rw,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered) /dev/sdb1 on /home type btrfs (rw,relatime) sunrpc on /var/lib/nfs/rpc_pipefs type rpc_pipefs (rw,relatime) hugetlbfs on /dev/hugepages type hugetlbfs (rw,relatime) fusectl on /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw,relatime) mqueue on /dev/mqueue type mqueue (rw,relatime) securityfs on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs (rw,relatime) debugfs on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,relatime) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuacct type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuacct) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/memory type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/devices type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer) cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls)
On 05/25/2011 04:27 PM, Phil Meyer wrote:
On 05/25/2011 12:17 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
<snip>
Here is the output of mount:
<snip>
Mount now gives you /proc/mounts.
Look at findmnt --help for the new way to review mounted filesystems, etc. I use:
findmnt -m -u -o SOURCE,TARGET,FSTYPE -t ext2,ext3,ext4,btrfs,vfat,swap
inside a shell script to get behavior similar to the way mount used to report.
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On Wed, 25 May 2011, Tom Horsley wrote:
Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 14:17:14 -0400 From: Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.9 (GTK+ 2.22.0; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_PASS autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5 Subject: What on earth is mounted?
I was checking to see if I had everything mounted that I wanted in a newly genned f15 system, and I see this insanity in the output from running "mount":
/dev/sda2 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /var/tmp type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered) /dev/sda2 on /home type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered)
Where on earth do those /tmp /var/tmp and /home entries come from? They certainly aren't all mounted on top of the same filesystem root. There are no entries for them in /etc/fstab. What is going on?
They also all show up with identical free space entries in the output from the df command.
This is just wayyyy confusing.
Can I make it stop somehow and leave them as ordinary subdirectories as they have always been?
I had the same problem. Very annoying!
So I switch back to upstart (yum install upstart), made some minor tweaks (created directory /var/run/dbus so messagebus will start, removed /etc/mtab link, touch /etc/mtab, touch /etc/init.conf, added id:5:initdefault: to /etc/inittab), added init=/sbin/upstart to grub.conf and everything work fine now!
Gabriel
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