I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users overnight.
Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the fault is with the other.
My fc13 machines are moving to RHEL6.0 or a similar distribution, I'll be able to keep them secure for a while and see which way the wind blows.
Bill Davidsen writes:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
Oh?
Where exactly can I find my familiar gnome 2 desktop in this particular distribution? I don't mean the fallback mode, because that's not it.
On 05/29/2011 03:06 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Bill Davidsen writes:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
Oh?
Where exactly can I find my familiar gnome 2 desktop in this particular distribution? I don't mean the fallback mode, because that's not it.
I don't think gnome3.org implies that distributions will continue to include GNOME 2.x since obviously GNOME 2.x is not parallel installable with GNOME 3.x and they can't make promises on behalf of distributions. Some distributions, notably enterprise ones will continue to support GNOME 2.x for years. RHEL 6 for instance, has a 7 to 10 year support cycle.
Rahul
On Sat, 2011-05-28 at 17:12 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users overnight.
Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the fault is with the other.
I have F15 running in a VirtualBox VM under MacOS on my company laptop. Gnome seems to be in "fall-back" mode as far as I can tell. I'm more of a KDE user so I don't really know, but it is at least usable.
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2011-05-28 at 17:12 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users overnight.
Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the fault is with the other.
I have F15 running in a VirtualBox VM under MacOS on my company laptop. Gnome seems to be in "fall-back" mode as far as I can tell. I'm more of a KDE user so I don't really know, but it is at least usable.
Actually that's neither gnome-shell or GNOME2, but yet another user interface. If it has a name other than fallback mode, I don't know it, and it's poorly documented, as is appropriate for something which doesn't seem to be intended for actual daily use.
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 09:52:38AM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
Actually that's neither gnome-shell or GNOME2, but yet another user interface. If it has a name other than fallback mode, I don't know it, and it's poorly documented, as is appropriate for something which doesn't seem to be intended for actual daily use.
It is GNOME panel, ported to gtk3, no bonobo, etc.
On 05/28/2011 05:12 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users overnight.
Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the fault is with the other.
My fc13 machines are moving to RHEL6.0 or a similar distribution, I'll be able to keep them secure for a while and see which way the wind blows.
VirtualBox 4.0.8 does enough 3d emulation (after installing the client tools) to start Gnome3.
I am having a problem though when I try to access the "System Settings"/"System Info" icon. The window appears to open, but it's completely white. If you dare click anywhere on anything else, (like the "Application" link, the Clock, or your full name) the whole screen turns white, and the font goes to hell. After that the whole desktop becomes unusable. The VM is not hung though, as you can still Ctrl-Shift-F2 to a console, log in as root, and "init 3 && init 5" to restart the desktop. Too bad I need to access some settings in that dialog... Can any one running F15 in the latest VirtualBox confirm this, if so I will bugzilla it.
VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.
-- Best regards, Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Shnurapet shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, GPG: 00217306
On Monday 30 May 2011 08:20:40 Misha Shnurapet wrote:
VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.
VirtualBox offers 3D support for the client system, up to the available capabilities of the host system. This means that if you have good 3D video accelerated drivers on your host system, you can make use of it from within the client as well.
I remember seeing similar 3D support in VMware as well, last time I used it. Don't know about KVM, QEMU, Xen, and others.
The 3D support is often labelled as experimental, not quite perfect in all circumstances, but in general it does work. For example, I have a WinXP client under VirtualBox on a F14 host. With the Fedora-provided open source 3D drivers for my Intel graphics hardware, I am able to run and play Quake3 on the WinXP guest. It works as fast as the linux version running natively on F14.
That said, I remember that one needs to jump through hoops to enable it, at least on VirtualBox. It isn't enabled by default (there is a checkbox in the graphics settings that needs to be ticked), and the VBox-provided drivers for the WinXP client need to be installed when the client is in safe-mode, if they are to work. Or something like that, I don't remember exactly. But once this is done, 3D video generally works in the client, most games work well, etc.
I am almost tempted to install F15 as a client, just to see all that fuss about Gnome3 (and being a long-term KDE user, have a good laugh as well ;-) ). I probably won't have time for that, however...
HTH, :-) Marko
30.05.2011, 18:54, "Marko Vojinovic" vvmarko@gmail.com:
On Monday 30 May 2011 08:20:40 Misha Shnurapet wrote:
VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.
VirtualBox offers 3D support for the client system, up to the available capabilities of the host system. This means that if you have good 3D video accelerated drivers on your host system, you can make use of it from within the client as well.
I remember seeing similar 3D support in VMware as well, last time I used it. Don't know about KVM, QEMU, Xen, and others.
The 3D support is often labelled as experimental, not quite perfect in all circumstances, but in general it does work. For example, I have a WinXP client under VirtualBox on a F14 host. With the Fedora-provided open source 3D drivers for my Intel graphics hardware, I am able to run and play Quake3 on the WinXP guest. It works as fast as the linux version running natively on F14.
That said, I remember that one needs to jump through hoops to enable it, at least on VirtualBox. It isn't enabled by default (there is a checkbox in the graphics settings that needs to be ticked), and the VBox-provided drivers for the WinXP client need to be installed when the client is in safe-mode, if they are to work. Or something like that, I don't remember exactly. But once this is done, 3D video generally works in the client, most games work well, etc.
Agreed. It would mostly work.
I am almost tempted to install F15 as a client, just to see all that fuss about Gnome3 (and being a long-term KDE user, have a good laugh as well ;-) ). I probably won't have time for that, however...
I have been using GNOME 3 on two different devices I own. There is no base for all that fuss really. :-)
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 06:54, Marko Vojinovic vvmarko@gmail.com wrote:
and the VBox-provided drivers for the WinXP client need to be installed when the client is in safe-mode, if they are to work. Or something like that, I don't remember exactly.
I don´t remember having to to boot into safe mode. The only thing I remember are the warnings from Windows itself because the VBox drivers are not digitally signed... or have not passed WHQL certification (which I believe involves paying Microsoft).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHQL_Testing
But I could be wrong. FC
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 04:20, Misha Shnurapet shnurapet@fedoraproject.org wrote:
VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.
Virtualbox does. At least when using Windows as the host.
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/475
FC
On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 01:49 -0400, Chris Kloiber wrote:
VirtualBox 4.0.8 does enough 3d emulation (after installing the client tools) to start Gnome3.
I am having a problem though when I try to access the "System Settings"/"System Info" icon. The window appears to open, but it's completely white. If you dare click anywhere on anything else, (like the "Application" link, the Clock, or your full name) the whole screen turns white, and the font goes to hell.
I can confirm both of these things. I do have an F15 VirtualBox guest running with F14 as the host OS, and I can repeat this phenomenon with the System Info. Very weird. CTRL-Alt-Backspace (sends you back to the login screen) also works for recovery. I have yet to figure out how to do a CTRL-ALT-F2 in a Vbox guest, as this normally sends the *host* OS to the text console. Probably some Vbox setting we have different. CTRL-Alt-Backspace can be sent to the guest from the Machine menu in Vbox.
--Greg
On 05/30/2011 01:33 PM, Greg Woods wrote:
running with F14 as the host OS, and I can repeat this phenomenon with the System Info. Very weird. CTRL-Alt-Backspace (sends you back to the login screen) also works for recovery. I have yet to figure out how to do a CTRL-ALT-F2 in a Vbox guest, as this normally sends the *host* OS to the text console. Probably some Vbox setting we have different. CTRL-Alt-Backspace can be sent to the guest from the Machine menu in Vbox.
The way to get other VT's in Virtual Box is "right control"+"F<N>"
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 00:12, Bill Davidsen davidsen@tmr.com wrote:
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users overnight.
Just like KDE 3.5 was supported by the distros for years to come? And don't mention Trinity, save us both some time.
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Bill Davidsen -
Chris Kloiber -
Dotan Cohen -
Fernando Cassia -
Greg Woods -
Gregory Woodbury -
Marko Vojinovic -
Misha Shnurapet -
Olav Vitters -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rahul Sundaram -
Sam Varshavchik