twm on F15

[Hiisi]

Is it possible to run twm on fedora 15?
I can't find anything on it in documentation. The only link I've found
so far is this:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/12/html/Deployment_Guide/s2-x-cli...
It's outdated and doesn't work. I did the following:
became root and run init 3
then xinit -e /usr/bin/twm
After that there was an error from X-server about usb-configuration
and then it halted.
TIA

[Cameron Simpson]

On 14Jun2011 16:13, Hiisi  wrote:
| Is it possible to run twm on fedora 15?
| I can't find anything on it in documentation. The only link I've found
| so far is this:
| http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/12/html/Deployment_Guide/s2-x-cli...
| It's outdated and doesn't work. I did the following:
| became root and run init 3
| then xinit -e /usr/bin/twm
| After that there was an error from X-server about usb-configuration
| and then it halted.

From "man xinit" (admittedly, not on F15):

EXAMPLES
       Below are several examples of how command line arguments in xinit 
       are used. [...]

xinit -e widgets -- ./Xorg -l -c
               This  will  use the command .Xorg -l -c to start the server
               and will append the arguments -e widgets to the default xterm
               command.

So you ended up running:

xterm /usr/bin/twm

versus the more correct (syntacticly, anyway - it is still the wrong
thing to do).

The standard way to get full control is to make a ~/.xsession shell
script. For example, mine:

#!/bin/sh
  . /etc/profile
  . $HOME/.profile
  exec $HOME/rc/x11/session

and then the "session" script it runs at the bottom starts the tools of
your choice and then execs your preferred window mangler.

Then just do a GUI login as normal. As yourself, _NOT_ as root!
Try not to muck with root's environment - it is best to not get
surprises when root.

Untested example:

#!/bin/sh
  ( xterm &
  )
  exec twm

(The purpose of the subshell it to make the clients - xterm - not be
children of the WM - avoids zombies).

Or you could just have the .xsession:

#!/bin/sh
  . /etc/profile
  . $HOME/.profile
  ( xterm &
  )
  exec twm

Cheers,

[Hiisi]

On 15 June 2011 04:58, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> On 14Jun2011 16:13, Hiisi  wrote:
> | Is it possible to run twm on fedora 15?
> | I can't find anything on it in documentation. The only link I've found
> | so far is this:
> | http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/12/html/Deployment_Guide/s2-x-cli...
> | It's outdated and doesn't work. I did the following:
> | became root and run init 3
> | then xinit -e /usr/bin/twm
> | After that there was an error from X-server about usb-configuration
> | and then it halted.
> > From "man xinit" (admittedly, not on F15):
>
> EXAMPLES
>       Below are several examples of how command line arguments in xinit
>       are used. [...]
>
> xinit -e widgets -- ./Xorg -l -c
>               This  will  use the command .Xorg -l -c to start the server
>               and will append the arguments -e widgets to the default xterm
>               command.
>
> So you ended up running:
>
> xterm /usr/bin/twm
>
> versus the more correct (syntacticly, anyway - it is still the wrong
> thing to do).
>
> The standard way to get full control is to make a ~/.xsession shell
> script. For example, mine:
>
> #!/bin/sh
>  . /etc/profile
>  . $HOME/.profile
>  exec $HOME/rc/x11/session
>
> and then the "session" script it runs at the bottom starts the tools of
> your choice and then execs your preferred window mangler.
>
> Then just do a GUI login as normal. As yourself, _NOT_ as root!
> Try not to muck with root's environment - it is best to not get
> surprises when root.
>
> Untested example:
>
> #!/bin/sh
>  ( xterm &
>  )
>  exec twm
>
> (The purpose of the subshell it to make the clients - xterm - not be
> children of the WM - avoids zombies).
>
> Or you could just have the .xsession:
>
> #!/bin/sh
>  . /etc/profile
>  . $HOME/.profile
>  ( xterm &
>  )
>  exec twm
> Cheers,
>
> Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Hi, Cameron!
Sorry for delay with response. I was on vacation since upgrading my
wife_rc1 (aka bride) to wife.i386.rpm. That was nice trip to Turkey,
Marmaris.
Thank you for clarification. I just tested it on F14 and now twm
starts. It warn me about lack of dozen fonts but seems to be working.
Actually problem was that I had to install xterm-261-2.fc14.x86_64 in
order to start twm using either xinit or any other way you suggested.
Tomorrow will test it on my F15 installation.
> I very strongly suggest that you periodically place ice packs over the abused
> areas.  - Steve Garnier

Thanks again
--
Hiisi

[Cameron Simpson]

On 27Jun2011 00:01, Hiisi  wrote:
| Sorry for delay with response. I was on vacation since upgrading my
| wife_rc1 (aka bride) to wife.i386.rpm. That was nice trip to Turkey,
| Marmaris.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

| Thank you for clarification. I just tested it on F14 and now twm
| starts. It warn me about lack of dozen fonts but seems to be working.
| Actually problem was that I had to install xterm-261-2.fc14.x86_64 in
| order to start twm using either xinit or any other way you suggested.
| Tomorrow will test it on my F15 installation.

I keep forgetting that it's possible to install X11 without installing
xterm; xterm's the "standard" terminal program, somewhat like "sh" is
the standard command shell. You always expect it to be there, even if it
is not what you usually use.

As you say, a missing xterm will prevent your recipe from working.
You recipe is suited to running twm at need, for special purposes. But
for normal use it is rather tedious - exit X11 (telinit 3), then start
X11 again in a special way.

The recipe I outlined is suitable for when you want to change the
default X11 environment you get when you log in at the XDM (or GDM) GUI
login prompt.

Cheers,

[Hiisi]

On 27 June 2011 16:47, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> On 27Jun2011 00:01, Hiisi  wrote:
> | Sorry for delay with response. I was on vacation since upgrading my
> | wife_rc1 (aka bride) to wife.i386.rpm. That was nice trip to Turkey,
> | Marmaris.
>
> I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks ;- )

<--SNIP-->
> As you say, a missing xterm will prevent your recipe from working.
> You recipe is suited to running twm at need, for special purposes. But
> for normal use it is rather tedious - exit X11 (telinit 3), then start
> X11 again in a special way.

Right.
> The recipe I outlined is suitable for when you want to change the
> default X11 environment you get when you log in at the XDM (or GDM) GUI
> login prompt.

Yes, you're right once again. I've created .xsession as you suggested.
If only I could find those legacy font packages... Wait a minute! What
if I grub them from some rather old version of rpm distro? Say, from
SL 5.3 I have on 6 cd. I wonder is it possible to install a few
specific packages from that disks. Will give it a try.
Once again,
thanks for your help. Appreciate it!
> Cheers,
>
> Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Cheers
--
Hiisi

[Bill Davidsen]

Hiisi wrote:
> On 15 June 2011 04:58, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> > On 14Jun2011 16:13, Hiisi  wrote:
> > | Is it possible to run twm on fedora 15?
> > | I can't find anything on it in documentation. The only link I've found
> > | so far is this:
> > | http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/12/html/Deployment_Guide/s2-x-cli...
> > | It's outdated and doesn't work. I did the following:
> > | became root and run init 3
> > | then xinit -e /usr/bin/twm
> > | After that there was an error from X-server about usb-configuration
> > | and then it halted.
> > > From "man xinit" (admittedly, not on F15):
> > EXAMPLES
> >    Below are several examples of how command line arguments in xinit
> >    are used. [...]
> >
> >    xinit -e widgets -- ./Xorg -l -c
> >            This  will  use the command .Xorg -l -c to start the server
> >            and will append the arguments -e widgets to the default xterm
> >            command.
> >
> > So you ended up running:
> >
> > xterm /usr/bin/twm
> >
> > versus the more correct (syntacticly, anyway - it is still the wrong
> > thing to do).
> >
> > The standard way to get full control is to make a ~/.xsession shell
> > script. For example, mine:
> >
> > #!/bin/sh
> >   . /etc/profile
> >   . $HOME/.profile
> >   exec $HOME/rc/x11/session
> >
> > and then the "session" script it runs at the bottom starts the tools of
> > your choice and then execs your preferred window mangler.
> >
> > Then just do a GUI login as normal. As yourself, _NOT_ as root!
> > Try not to muck with root's environment - it is best to not get
> > surprises when root.
> >
> > Untested example:
> >
> > #!/bin/sh
> >   ( xterm&
> >   )
> >   exec twm
> >
> > (The purpose of the subshell it to make the clients - xterm - not be
> > children of the WM - avoids zombies).
> >
> > Or you could just have the .xsession:
> >
> > #!/bin/sh
> >   . /etc/profile
> >   . $HOME/.profile
> >   ( xterm&
> >   )
> >   exec twm
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> > http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
>
> Hi, Cameron!
> Sorry for delay with response. I was on vacation since upgrading my
> wife_rc1 (aka bride) to wife.i386.rpm. That was nice trip to Turkey,
> Marmaris.
> Thank you for clarification. I just tested it on F14 and now twm
> starts. It warn me about lack of dozen fonts but seems to be working.
> Actually problem was that I had to install xterm-261-2.fc14.x86_64 in
> order to start twm using either xinit or any other way you suggested.
> Tomorrow will test it on my F15 installation.

Amazing how GNOME3 has boosted the popularity of functional WM ;-)

If you're pulling in old stuff, an old version of gnome-terminal might work, 
although I do like xterm, used to start one in console mode white text on blue, 
and then a user term in green on black. Old trick, have anything system related 
very different so you don't reprise the old "typed that in the wrong window" trick.

Enjoy the wife, computers are just ones and zeros.

[Hiisi]

On 29 June 2011 17:38, Bill Davidsen  wrote:
<--SNIP-->
> Amazing how GNOME3 has boosted the popularity of functional WM ;-)

Well, I always liked twm. It's really impressive how one simple
program can live such a long life. If only I could figure out how to
switch keyboard layouts under twm! Also it would be wonderful to
automatically mount usb-drives.
> If you're pulling in old stuff, an old version of gnome-terminal might work,
> although I do like xterm, used to start one in console mode white text on blue,
> and then a user term in green on black. Old trick, have anything system related
> very different so you don't reprise the old "typed that in the wrong window" trick.

My system has two monitors. I can place terminals on different screens
and take pleasure of default configuration ;-)
> Enjoy the wife, computers are just ones and zeros.

Thanks! I'll show this last paragraph to my wife.
--
Hiisi