experimental jit support in python 3.13?

[Neal Becker]

I believe experimental jit support in python 3.13 needs to be enabled both
at compile time and at runtime.  Does Fedora's python3.13 have this enabled?

Thanks,
Neal

[Todd Zullinger]

Neal Becker wrote:
> I believe experimental jit support in python 3.13 needs to
> be enabled both at compile time and at runtime.  Does
> Fedora's python3.13 have this enabled?

Knowing nothing about this, I searched the fine web and
checked the Python 3.13 release notes which explain this and
how it is enabled and used:

https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.13.html#an-experimental-just-in-time-ji...

Then I looked at the source for the python3.13 package in
Fedora and can see that it is enabled at compile-time, but
disabled by default at runtime:

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python3.13/blob/rawhide/f/python3.13.spec...

You simply need to set PYTHON_JIT=1 to enable it.

[Neal Becker]

Thanks, but just to verify I asked chatgpt how to tell if it was enabled at
compile time and it suggested:
 import sysconfig
print(sysconfig.get_config_var("WITH_EXPERIMENTAL_JIT"))
which prints "None".

On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 11:39 PM Todd Zullinger  wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
> > I believe experimental jit support in python 3.13 needs to
> > be enabled both at compile time and at runtime.  Does
> > Fedora's python3.13 have this enabled?
>
> Knowing nothing about this, I searched the fine web and
> checked the Python 3.13 release notes which explain this and
> how it is enabled and used:
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.13.html#an-experimental-just-in-time-ji...
>
> Then I looked at the source for the python3.13 package in
> Fedora and can see that it is enabled at compile-time, but
> disabled by default at runtime:
>
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python3.13/blob/rawhide/f/python3.13.spec...
>
> You simply need to set PYTHON_JIT=1 to enable it.
>
> --
> Todd
> --
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[Will McDonald]

I wouldn't personally depend on anything from ChatGPT exclusively. It's a
semi-useful tool but shouldn't be your only safeguard. Back it up with
further web search/reading documentation.

There's an alternative validation mechanism here:
https://drew.silcock.dev/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-python-3-13/...
contains

Which works for me on f41 with the bundled Python.

[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$ python --version
Python 3.13.1
[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$ python -c 'import sysconfig;print("JIT enabled 🚀"
if "-D_Py_JIT" in sysconfig.get_config_var("PY_CORE_CFLAGS") else "JIT
disabled 😒")'
JIT enabled 🚀
[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$

There's also a further example program calculating Fibonacci sequences
which works as you'd expect:

[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$ python jit.py
Doesn't look like the JIT is enabled 🥱
[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$ export PYTHON_JIT=1
[wmcdonald@fedora ~ ]$ python jit.py
JIT enabled 🚀

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 at 12:04, Neal Becker  wrote:
> Thanks, but just to verify I asked chatgpt how to tell if it was enabled
> at compile time and it suggested:
>  import sysconfig
> print(sysconfig.get_config_var("WITH_EXPERIMENTAL_JIT"))
> which prints "None".
>
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 11:39 PM Todd Zullinger  wrote:
> > Neal Becker wrote:
> > > I believe experimental jit support in python 3.13 needs to
> > > be enabled both at compile time and at runtime.  Does
> > > Fedora's python3.13 have this enabled?
> >
> > Knowing nothing about this, I searched the fine web and
> > checked the Python 3.13 release notes which explain this and
> > how it is enabled and used:
> >
> > https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.13.html#an-experimental-just-in-time-ji...
> >
> > Then I looked at the source for the python3.13 package in
> > Fedora and can see that it is enabled at compile-time, but
> > disabled by default at runtime:
> >
> > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python3.13/blob/rawhide/f/python3.13.spec...
> >
> > You simply need to set PYTHON_JIT=1 to enable it.
> >
> > --
> > Todd
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> > Do not reply to spam, report it:
> > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
> --
> *Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*
>
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[Todd Zullinger]

Neal Becker wrote:
> Thanks, but just to verify I asked chatgpt how to tell if it was enabled at
> compile time and it suggested:
>  import sysconfig
> print(sysconfig.get_config_var("WITH_EXPERIMENTAL_FOO"))
> which prints "None".

I guess if I needed any more confirmation that things like
ChatGPT were effectively useless at this point in time,
thanks. ;)

Sadly, tools like that may suck in text from this mailing
list for training and use it to further reinforce the
incorrect "answers" they are providing.  Garbage in, garbage
out.

(That's why I edited the quoted portion above, largely for
my own amusment, as I don't think one more reference will
help or hurt much.)

[Jonathan]

No experimental features should ever be enabled by default on compilers or interpreters. That's asking for trouble.

On 1/10/25 6:37 PM, Neal Becker wrote:
> I believe experimental jit support in python 3.13 needs to be enabled both at compile time and at runtime. Does Fedora's python3.13 have this enabled?
>
> Thanks,
> Neal
> --
>
> Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 10:50 AM Todd Zullinger  wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
> > Thanks, but just to verify I asked chatgpt how to tell if it was enabled at
> > compile time and it suggested:
> >  import sysconfig
> > print(sysconfig.get_config_var("WITH_EXPERIMENTAL_FOO"))
> > which prints "None".
>
> I guess if I needed any more confirmation that things like
> ChatGPT were effectively useless at this point in time,
> thanks. ;)
>
> Sadly, tools like that may suck in text from this mailing
> list for training and use it to further reinforce the
> incorrect "answers" they are providing.  Garbage in, garbage
> out.
>
> (That's why I edited the quoted portion above, largely for
> my own amusment, as I don't think one more reference will
> help or hurt much.)

Hear, hear!

[Neal Becker]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 3:53 PM Jonathan via users <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> No experimental features should ever be enabled by default on compilers or
> interpreters.  That's asking for trouble.--

I believe if they are enabled at compile time but disabled at runtime, I
don't see a problem.