Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel. Now on: uname -a Linux pauls-server 3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jul 18 02:36:27 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting??? the 3 latest kernels: -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538536 Jul 7 10:32 vmlinuz-3.15.4-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538920 Jul 14 11:49 vmlinuz-3.15.5-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5539144 Jul 17 22:49 vmlinuz-3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64
in less than 10 days..
On 21/07/14 06:41 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel. Now on: uname -a Linux pauls-server 3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jul 18 02:36:27 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting??? the 3 latest kernels: -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538536 Jul 7 10:32 vmlinuz-3.15.4-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538920 Jul 14 11:49 vmlinuz-3.15.5-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5539144 Jul 17 22:49 vmlinuz-3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64
in less than 10 days..
Fedora is not a server OS. It's a bleeding-edge distro and as such, changes often. If you want stability, use RHEL/CentOS. Far fewer kernel updates there.
Digimer wrote:
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting???
Fedora is not a server OS. It's a bleeding-edge distro and as such, changes often. If you want stability, use RHEL/CentOS. Far fewer kernel updates there.
As a matter or interest, is what the OS asked available on CentOS?
On 21/07/14 07:11 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Digimer wrote:
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting???
Fedora is not a server OS. It's a bleeding-edge distro and as such, changes often. If you want stability, use RHEL/CentOS. Far fewer kernel updates there.
As a matter or interest, is what the OS asked available on CentOS?
No. Ksplice was supposed to add that support, but it was sucked up by Oracle, iirc.
2014-07-21 13:41 GMT+03:00 Paul Cartwright pbcartwright@gmail.com:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel. Now on: uname -a Linux pauls-server 3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jul 18 02:36:27 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting??? the 3 latest kernels: -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538536 Jul 7 10:32 vmlinuz-3.15.4-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5538920 Jul 14 11:49 vmlinuz-3.15.5-200.fc20.x86_64 -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 5539144 Jul 17 22:49 vmlinuz-3.15.6-200.fc20.x86_64
in less than 10 days..
-- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587
You can do fast-reboot by using kexec https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kexec
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On 07/21/2014 07:19 AM, Alchemist wrote:
You can do fast-reboot by using kexec https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kexec
thanks, good info! I don't have a problem with the speed of reboots, I just do init 6 from command line.. It just seems that all I have been doing lately is rebooting, and setting up all the windows I keep open.. 3 kernels in 10 days..
On Mon, 2014-07-21 at 07:29 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote:
On 07/21/2014 07:19 AM, Alchemist wrote:
You can do fast-reboot by using kexec https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kexec
thanks, good info! I don't have a problem with the speed of reboots, I just do init 6 from command line.. It just seems that all I have been doing lately is rebooting, and setting up all the windows I keep open.. 3 kernels in 10 days..
It's a symptom of active development. Unlike some other distros, Fedora tracks the upstream kernel versions quite closely, but there's nothing obliging you to always use the latest kernel if it doesn't fix anything relevant to you.
poc
On 07/21/2014 07:42 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
thanks, good info! I don't have a problem with the speed of reboots, I
just do init 6 from command line.. It just seems that all I have been doing lately is rebooting, and setting up all the windows I keep open.. 3 kernels in 10 days..
It's a symptom of active development. Unlike some other distros, Fedora tracks the upstream kernel versions quite closely, but there's nothing obliging you to always use the latest kernel if it doesn't fix anything relevant to you.
I like to keep up with updates, and I am not comfortable adding more updates, especially security updates, when I am not running the latest kernel..
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 06:41:05 -0400, Paul Cartwright pbcartwright@gmail.com wrote:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel. Now on:
We'll you could keep running the older kernel. Depending on what the update has there may not be a pressing need to switch on a particular system. Though updates to stable kernels are often security or data loss bugs, so staying on the old kernels without reviewing the changes isn't a great idea. And reviewing the changes would also take time and expertise. So for most people just rebooting at the first covenient time is going to make the most sense.
You might want to keep an eye on the kGraft project. https://www.suse.com/communities/conversations/kgraft-live-kernel-patching/ https://www.suse.com/company/press/2014/1/suse-develops-kgraft-for-live-patc...
And Red Hat has a similar project: http://rhelblog.redhat.com/2014/02/26/kpatch/
On 07/21/2014 08:18 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel. Now on:
We'll you could keep running the older kernel. Depending on what the update has there may not be a pressing need to switch on a particular system. Though updates to stable kernels are often security or data loss bugs, so staying on the old kernels without reviewing the changes isn't a great idea. And reviewing the changes would also take time and expertise. So for most people just rebooting at the first covenient time is going to make the most sense.
You might want to keep an eye on the kGraft project. https://www.suse.com/communities/conversations/kgraft-live-kernel-patching/
thanks! I do like to keep up with the latest kernel, and I admit I don't read the change logs.. so I just DO IT:)
kGraft looks interesting, hope it works out!
On 21.07.2014, Paul Cartwright wrote:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel.
I've never used any Fedora kernel any longer than for the first install. When updating, I specify "yum update --exclude=kernel*".
On 21.07.2014 15:35, Heinz Diehl wrote:
On 21.07.2014, Paul Cartwright wrote:
Is it me, or does every other update lately seem to include a new kernel.. I thought linux was meant to stay up & running. I seem to be rebooting weekly now, just for a new kernel.
I've never used any Fedora kernel any longer than for the first install. When updating, I specify "yum update --exclude=kernel*".
Your expertise with kernel would be very welcome for the Fedora kernel also, when you offer Heinz. ;)
poma
On 21.07.2014, poma wrote:
Your expertise with kernel would be very welcome for the Fedora kernel also, when you offer Heinz. ;)
Here's what I'm doing (and what I basically have been doing in many years):
1. Download a kernel from kernel.org 2. Extract it into /usr/src 3. Apply some minor patches 4. Copy my .config into the kernel sourcetree (alternatively "make config", "make menuconfig" or thelike - in this case, you can of course omit 5.) 5. make oldconfig 5. make -j4 5. make modules_install 6. make install 7. reboot
In short: a simple kernel compile/install. Your kernel will live peacefully alongside with your distribution kernel(s).
For those who just want to try: a good starting point for a customized .config would be the .config of your distribution kernel (see /boot). When I'm configuring a kernel for a new machine, I usually load and connect my stuff and do a "make localmodconfig" and take this as a starting point for further customizing, as I'm (more or less) familiar with what I need and where I must look for it in the .config.
On 21.07.2014 18:37, Heinz Diehl wrote:
On 21.07.2014, poma wrote:
Your expertise with kernel would be very welcome for the Fedora kernel also, when you offer Heinz. ;)
Here's what I'm doing (and what I basically have been doing in many years):
- Download a kernel from kernel.org
- Extract it into /usr/src
- Apply some minor patches
- Copy my .config into the kernel sourcetree (alternatively "make config", "make menuconfig" or thelike - in this case, you can of course omit 5.)
- make oldconfig
- make -j4
- make modules_install
- make install
- reboot
In short: a simple kernel compile/install. Your kernel will live peacefully alongside with your distribution kernel(s).
For those who just want to try: a good starting point for a customized .config would be the .config of your distribution kernel (see /boot). When I'm configuring a kernel for a new machine, I usually load and connect my stuff and do a "make localmodconfig" and take this as a starting point for further customizing, as I'm (more or less) familiar with what I need and where I must look for it in the .config.
Do you have any .config item worth mentioning, something you recommend or vice versa?
poma
On 21.07.2014, poma wrote:
Do you have any .config item worth mentioning, something you recommend or vice versa?
Nope. Every config is different, and so is the machine which it will be installed on, and the preferences of the one who uses it. It's a learning experience for anybody who's new to the linux kernel which is well worth the effort to dig into kernel configuration.
On 07/21/2014 02:12 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
Do you have any .config item worth mentioning, something you recommend or vice versa?
Nope. Every config is different, and so is the machine which it will be installed on, and the preferences of the one who uses it. It's a learning experience for anybody who's new to the linux kernel which is well worth the effort to dig into kernel configuration.
I started to do that and got to
. make -j4
my / file system ran out of space. I had 5.8Gb free before I started this..
On 07/21/2014 02:47 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
my / file system ran out of space. I had 5.8Gb free before I started this..
Your root partition is way too small for kernel development.
that would be something to take into consideration... I thought 5.8Gb of free space is PLENTY.. you say to put it in /usr/src. Can I put it in a spare partition that has more space?? does it need to be in /usr/src??
On 07/21/2014 04:26 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
You can most probably have it where you want it to. If something expects it to be in /usr/src, you can create a symlink.
what is it I am symlinking?? the actual kernel??
On 07/21/2014 01:26 PM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
On 21.07.2014, Paul Cartwright wrote:
you say to put it in /usr/src. Can I put it in a spare partition that has more space?? does it need to be in /usr/src??
You can most probably have it where you want it to. If something expects it to be in /usr/src, you can create a symlink.
If you really need to put it on a spare partition, you can always move everything there from /usr/src and then mount that partition at /usr/src and go from there.
On 22.07.2014, Joe Zeff wrote:
If you really need to put it on a spare partition, you can always move everything there from /usr/src and then mount that partition at /usr/src and go from there.
And don't forget to take a look into /lib/modules and update the (now) incorrect symlinks to the build directory..
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Heinz Diehl htd@fritha.org wrote:
On 21.07.2014, poma wrote:
Your expertise with kernel would be very welcome for the Fedora kernel also, when you offer Heinz. ;)
Here's what I'm doing (and what I basically have been doing in many years):
- Download a kernel from kernel.org
- Extract it into /usr/src
- Apply some minor patches
- Copy my .config into the kernel sourcetree (alternatively "make config", "make menuconfig" or thelike - in this case, you can of course omit 5.)
- make oldconfig
- make -j4
- make modules_install
- make install
- reboot
You'd be better off replacing the second step 5 by "make rpm-pkg" and the last step 5 and step 6 by "rpm -i ...".
On 21.07.2014, Tom H wrote:
You'd be better off replacing the second step 5 by "make rpm-pkg" and the last step 5 and step 6 by "rpm -i ...".
No, I wouldn't. My .config is highly customized, and the way I described just fits my needs perfectly. I'm quite aware of the possibility to build a kernel via rpm, but I don't want to do that.
Just to make it clear: what I described is just what I do and have done. There's more than one way to do it. There's no "wrong" or "right".
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Heinz Diehl htd@fritha.org wrote:
On 21.07.2014, Tom H wrote:
You'd be better off replacing the second step 5 by "make rpm-pkg" and the last step 5 and step 6 by "rpm -i ...".
No, I wouldn't. My .config is highly customized, and the way I described just fits my needs perfectly. I'm quite aware of the possibility to build a kernel via rpm, but I don't want to do that.
Just to make it clear: what I described is just what I do and have done. There's more than one way to do it. There's no "wrong" or "right".
You'd still be able to use your config - the first step 5.
The method that I suggested is right because (and I made a mistake earlier and shouldn't have suggested that you use rpm) you can install your kernel with "yum install ..." and remove it with "yum remove ..." - and use it on more than one system if necessary.
On 07/21/2014 03:19 PM, Tom H wrote:
You'd still be able to use your config - the first step 5.
The method that I suggested is right because (and I made a mistake earlier and shouldn't have suggested that you use rpm) you can install your kernel with "yum install ..." and remove it with "yum remove ..."
- and use it on more than one system if necessary.
--
not sure what the steps are to reproduce what you are talking about.. how do you make a ... kernel.....rpm
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Paul Cartwright pbcartwright@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/21/2014 03:19 PM, Tom H wrote:
You'd still be able to use your config - the first step 5.
The method that I suggested is right because (and I made a mistake earlier and shouldn't have suggested that you use rpm) you can install your kernel with "yum install ..." and remove it with "yum remove ..."
- and use it on more than one system if necessary.
not sure what the steps are to reproduce what you are talking about.. how do you make a ... kernel.....rpm
From "make help":
Kernel packaging: rpm-pkg - Build both source and binary RPM kernel packages binrpm-pkg - Build only the binary kernel package deb-pkg - Build the kernel as a deb package tar-pkg - Build the kernel as an uncompressed tarball targz-pkg - Build the kernel as a gzip compressed tarball tarbz2-pkg - Build the kernel as a bzip2 compressed tarball tarxz-pkg - Build the kernel as a xz compressed tarball perf-tar-src-pkg - Build perf-3.15.2.tar source tarball perf-targz-src-pkg - Build perf-3.15.2.tar.gz source tarball perf-tarbz2-src-pkg - Build perf-3.15.2.tar.bz2 source tarball perf-tarxz-src-pkg - Build perf-3.15.2.tar.xz source tarball
On 21.07.2014, Tom H wrote:
The method that I suggested is right
There's no "wrong" or "right". It's just one way to do it (not mine). But of course, it can be the way for others. It's perfectly fine to build a kernel by using rpm an manage it using yum, but it's not what I prefer.
because (and I made a mistake earlier and shouldn't have suggested that you use rpm) you can install your kernel with "yum install ..." and remove it with "yum remove ..."
- and use it on more than one system if necessary.
I install my kernel using "make install", and remove it by deleting the sourcetree, kernel & co. in /boot and its modules in /lib/modules/. It's what fits best for me.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Heinz Diehl htd@fritha.org wrote:
On 21.07.2014, Tom H wrote:
The method that I suggested is right
There's no "wrong" or "right". It's just one way to do it (not mine). But of course, it can be the way for others. It's perfectly fine to build a kernel by using rpm an manage it using yum, but it's not what I prefer.
because (and I made a mistake earlier and shouldn't have suggested that you use rpm) you can install your kernel with "yum install ..." and remove it with "yum remove ..."
- and use it on more than one system if necessary.
I install my kernel using "make install", and remove it by deleting the sourcetree, kernel & co. in /boot and its modules in /lib/modules/. It's what fits best for me.
Sure. Why do less work when you can do more?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:37:58 +0200 Heinz Diehl htd@fritha.org wrote:
Here's what I'm doing (and what I basically have been doing in many years):
[snip]
In short: a simple kernel compile/install. Your kernel will live peacefully alongside with your distribution kernel(s).
What is the purpose of installing a non-Fedora kernel, in your case?
Also, when the new security/bugfix patches land into the kernel tree, do you recompile it again, or what? How much time do you devote to kernel maintenance, on a monthly basis?
Best, :-) Marko
On 21.07.2014, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
What is the purpose of installing a non-Fedora kernel, in your case?
Coming from SLS, slackware and yggdrasil way back in time, it's how it has been for me all the time. I have my configs, scripts and so on. I kept them over time, and they just work :-)
Also, when the new security/bugfix patches land into the kernel tree, do you recompile it again, or what?
Most of the time, I recompile when a new stable rc hits kernel.org. Quite often, the rc doesn't differ from the release, or it differs in parts which doesn't affect me. So I'm just keeping the rc, being too lazy to recompile :-)
How much time do you devote to kernel maintenance, on a monthly basis?
I don't know. Sometimes it's more, sometimes less. I just copy my things over, read lkml as usual, and let the machine do the job.
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Paul Cartwright pbcartwright@gmail.com wrote:
is there some command I don't know about that will let you swap to the latest kernel without rebooting?
What problems one could face if I were to not reboot my system for a while and let it update a few kernel versions?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:56:00 +0530 Sudhir Khanger sudhir@sudhirkhanger.com wrote:
What problems one could face if I were to not reboot my system for a while and let it update a few kernel versions?
Well, for example, a kernel update might be due to some new severe security exploit, and the old kernel might be vulnerable to it. Running an old kernel on an Internet-facing system might then be a Bad Idea(tm).
In theory, for each kernel update you could look at the changelog to see what was actually updated and why, and then decide if you need to run the updated kernel or not. But most people typically don't want to invest the time and effort to do that, if it's easier to just reboot the system. These things should be decided on a case-by-case basis. :-)
HTH, :-) Marko
On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 13:25 +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
In theory, for each kernel update you could look at the changelog to see what was actually updated and why, and then decide if you need to run the updated kernel or not. But most people typically don't want to invest the time and effort to do that
You'd have to understand all the things the update covered, to make sense of it. The last update lists all sorts of things that I have no idea about.
e.g. filter: prevent nla from peeking beyond eom Fix dma unmap error in jme driver pty race leading to memory corruption Fix TUN performance regression Add backported drm qxl fix
Unfamiliar acronyms galore!
While that gobbledegook might be of interest to coders, it's beyond what average computer users are going to want to know about.
-
Alchemist -
Bruno Wolff III -
Digimer -
Heinz Diehl -
Joe Zeff -
Marko Vojinovic -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Paul Cartwright -
poma -
Sam Varshavchik -
Sudhir Khanger -
Tim -
Timothy Murphy -
Tom H