I've installed "virtualbox" on this F-14 computer and it appears to be working, however now I need a copy of Windows to run in it in order to solve my other problem. I have several copies of WindowsXP Pro including the one that came with this computer but refuses to run unless that drive is plugged into the first slot.
That problem occurs because initially I had a computer failure and elected to replace the computer and install the hard drives from the failed unit into the "new" one. The old one had a Windows partition that was selectable from grub and would operate normally if needed. Once the drives were swapped into this computer and Windows selected it would protest that perhaps I had a virus and refuse to boot. :-)
The details go on and on but my question is would I have to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing WindowsXP that came with this computer? If I swap data cables around Windows still boots. It is installed by itself on an 80 gig sata drive.
Bob
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On 03/22/2011 09:59 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
I've installed "virtualbox" on this F-14 computer and it appears to be working, however now I need a copy of Windows to run in it in order to solve my other problem. I have several copies of WindowsXP Pro including the one that came with this computer but refuses to run unless that drive is plugged into the first slot. That problem occurs because initially I had a computer failure and elected to replace the computer and install the hard drives from the failed unit into the "new" one. The old one had a Windows partition that was selectable from grub and would operate normally if needed. Once the drives were swapped into this computer and Windows selected it would protest that perhaps I had a virus and refuse to boot. :-) The details go on and on but my question is would I have to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing WindowsXP that came with this computer? If I swap data cables around Windows still boots. It is installed by itself on an 80 gig sata drive. Bob --
It seems you want to import an existing Windows partition, not install a new copy of Windows from scratch. Installing is the easiest thing to do.
You can import an existing partition, but it looks to be ugly: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=1966
This looks promising: http://www.labnol.org/software/create-virtual-machine-of-existing-computer/1...
On Tue, 2011-03-22 at 10:59 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
The details go on and on but my question is would I have to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing WindowsXP that came with this computer?
Windows is very fussy about the hardware. If the hardware changes from when it was originally installed, it refuses to run. This is (supposedly) to prevent unauthorized copies. So it is unlikely you will be able to get the copy on disk to run. However, you should be able to create a new virtual machine and install Windows XP onto it from the CD, using your product key.
--Greg
Windows is very fussy about the hardware. If the hardware changes from when it was originally installed, it refuses to run. This is (supposedly) to prevent unauthorized copies. So it is unlikely you will be able to get the copy on disk to run.
It's true that when you make major changes to the hardware, Windows often won't be able to see the boot device. But this is not a refusal to run, and it isn't a form of copy protection. It's simply a matter of not having the proper drivers for the new hardware.
There are several ways around the problem - one is to run Sysprep, which makes all drivers known to the OS available for use on the next boot with the option of adding drivers during the boot.
Another is to run windows from a drive controller that can be installed in the new system, so that Windows finds itself booting from the same hardware it always has. Sometimes this works great, sometimes not.
It's not impossible to move Windows to new hardware, and it's not even that hard to do. However, you might end up having to call Microsoft after the move to get it activated. That's the copy protection part. They ask you a couple of questions and you get the new code. And they're usually pretty nice about it.
On 22/03/11 12:18, compdoc wrote:
Windows is very fussy about the hardware. If the hardware changes from when it was originally installed, it refuses to run. This is (supposedly) to prevent unauthorized copies. So it is unlikely you will be able to get the copy on disk to run.
It's true that when you make major changes to the hardware, Windows often won't be able to see the boot device. But this is not a refusal to run, and it isn't a form of copy protection. It's simply a matter of not having the proper drivers for the new hardware.
There are several ways around the problem - one is to run Sysprep, which makes all drivers known to the OS available for use on the next boot with the option of adding drivers during the boot.
Another is to run windows from a drive controller that can be installed in the new system, so that Windows finds itself booting from the same hardware it always has. Sometimes this works great, sometimes not.
It's not impossible to move Windows to new hardware, and it's not even that hard to do. However, you might end up having to call Microsoft after the move to get it activated. That's the copy protection part. They ask you a couple of questions and you get the new code. And they're usually pretty nice about it.
These are used computers purchased from Discount PC who sells them with Windows XP Pro installed, however there is no cdrom provided, no means for reinstall. Usually that's not a problem since I don't need Windows anyway.
But if I do a new install from the Fedora DVD it will install Fedora on an added drive and configure grub so I can select whatever, including Windows and all is happiness. My problem is that the only way I can get Windows to run is to plug it into the first slot, then Windows boots but I never see grub.
Or I can move the original drive to a third slot, it shows up as /dev/sdc0 and grub will select it but then Windows refuses to boot, yields an error screen and the computer has to be powered off to reboot.
Now it looks to me that by moving the Windows drive to the slot it wants I can do a reinstall of F14 and produce a working system with grub selecting Fedora or Windows.
Is there a procedure using the DVD to reorganize things without destroying the existing Linux configuration?
Bob
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Bob Goodwin bobgoodwin@wildblue.net wrote:
I've installed "virtualbox" on this F-14 computer and it appears to be working, however now I need a copy of Windows to run in it in order to solve my other problem. I have several copies of WindowsXP Pro including the one that came with this computer but refuses to run unless that drive is plugged into the first slot.
That problem occurs because initially I had a computer failure and elected to replace the computer and install the hard drives from the failed unit into the "new" one. The old one had a Windows partition that was selectable from grub and would operate normally if needed. Once the drives were swapped into this computer and Windows selected it would protest that perhaps I had a virus and refuse to boot. :-)
The details go on and on but my question is would I have to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing WindowsXP that came with this computer? If I swap data cables around Windows still boots. It is installed by itself on an 80 gig sata drive.
As long as you don't mind using the original drive, you might consider raw disk/partition access. It's in the VirtualBox documentation, somewhere in chapter 9 I think.
I did this for a while before deciding I didn't need native Windows anymore. What I did was setup a separate hardware profile in XP which allowed me to boot natively or in VBox.
I managed this without sysprep but it might be a good idea.
Richard
On Tuesday, March 22, 2011, Bob Goodwin wrote:
I've installed "virtualbox" on this F-14 computer andit appears to be working, however now I need a copy of Windows to run in it in order to solve my other problem. I have several copies of WindowsXP Pro including the one that came with this computer but refuses to run unless that drive is plugged into the first slot.
That problem occurs because initially I had a computerfailure and elected to replace the computer and install the hard drives from the failed unit into the "new" one. The old one had a Windows partition that was selectable from grub and would operate normally if needed. Once the drives were swapped into this computer and Windows selected it would protest that perhaps I had a virus and refuse to boot. :-)
The details go on and on but my question is would Ihave to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing WindowsXP that came with this computer? If I swap data cables around Windows still boots. It is installed by itself on an 80 gig sata drive.
Bob
I think I'd try virtualization of your physical machine - I've done that a lot to go to VMWare VMs, but there's a way to use VMWare free tools to get to a VirtualBox VM - here's one site that explains the process: http://www.sysprobs.com/physical-virtual-virtualbox-virtualbox-p2v
On 22/03/11 22:22, Claude Jones wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2011, Bob Goodwin wrote:
I've installed "virtualbox" on this F-14 computer and
it appears to be working, however now I need a copy of Windows
to run in it in order to solve my other problem. I have
several copies of WindowsXP Pro including the one that came
with this computer but refuses to run unless that drive is
plugged into the first slot.
That problem occurs because initially I had a computer
failure and elected to replace the computer and install the
hard drives from the failed unit into the "new" one. The old
one had a Windows partition that was selectable from grub and
would operate normally if needed. Once the drives were swapped
into this computer and Windows selected it would protest that
perhaps I had a virus and refuse to boot. :-)
The details go on and on but my question is would I
have to buy a copy of Windows to use virtualbox or is there a
way to make it use the original copy on the disk containing
WindowsXP that came with this computer? If I swap data cables
around Windows still boots. It is installed by itself on an 80
gig sata drive.
Bob
I think I'd try virtualization of your physical machine - I've done that a lot to go to VMWare VMs, but there's a way to use VMWare free tools to get to a VirtualBox VM - here's one site that explains the process:
http://www.sysprobs.com/physical-virtual-virtualbox-virtualbox-p2v
--
Claude Jones
Brunswick, MD, USA
Thanks Claude, I spent some time with that yesterday after reading this but that page is pretty hard to follow. Poor example images that are different than I see? I will have another go at it and let you know if it works for me.
Bob Zuni, VA.
http://www.sysprobs.com/physical-virtual-virtualbox-virtualbox-p2v
--
Claude Jones
Brunswick, MD, USA
Thanks Claude, I spent some time with that yesterday after reading this but that page is pretty hard to follow. Poor example images that are different than I see? I will have another go at it and let you know if it works for me.
If you want to go virtual, it's easy enough to do with the imaging programs clonezilla or Acronis.
First, it's probably a good idea to create a backup image with clonezilla or Acronis so you can put it back the way it was if it all goes wrong.
Then, in XP open the Add/Remove Programs control panel and remove all your drivers: video card, sound card, chipset, etc. If you're familiar with Sysprep, run this next and shut down.
Now, boot with your image program and create the backup again of this stripped down, sysprepped XP.
Then create your VM and its virtual drive, and restore the stripped down image to the virtual drive.
It might work fine without using Sysprep since XP should have drivers for the virtual hardware in the VM. Just don't try to use 'virtio' hardware until the VM is up and running.
On Thursday, March 24, 2011, compdoc wrote:
If you want to go virtual, it's easy enough to do with the imaging programs clonezilla or Acronis.
First, it's probably a good idea to create a backup image with clonezilla or Acronis so you can put it back the way it was if it all goes wrong.
Then, in XP open the Add/Remove Programs control panel and remove all your drivers: video card, sound card, chipset, etc. If you're familiar with Sysprep, run this next and shut down.
Now, boot with your image program and create the backup again of this stripped down, sysprepped XP.
Then create your VM and its virtual drive, and restore the stripped down image to the virtual drive.
It might work fine without using Sysprep since XP should have drivers for the virtual hardware in the VM. Just don't try to use 'virtio' hardware until the VM is up and running.
I like this! I'm a long time user of Acronis so I'm very familiar with its workings. It is something you have to buy, though there's a version available on the Seagate website that's a little stripped down but available for free download - I have no idea whether the feature set remaining in this version is sufficient to do the above task, but it would cost you nothing to find out. I think they call it Seagate Tools... VMWare has a free tool you can download that will create a virtual hard drive of any physical drive, and that's the one I've used. The page I linked to is one of several I found which describes a way to take a VMWare created virtual drive and convert it for use by VirtualBox, but I haven't ever done that myself - this technique compdoc describes above looks like it could be even simpler...
this technique compdoc describes above
looks like it could be even simpler...
I did forget one thing: if there is no sticker attached to the case, record the Windows serial number before running sysprep. Sysprep will remove the existing serial number, and you'll need to enter it at the next boot.
There's a program named Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder that will show it to you.
On 25/03/11 09:43, compdoc wrote:
this technique compdoc describes above
looks like it could be even simpler...
I did forget one thing: if there is no sticker attached to the case, record the Windows serial number before running sysprep. Sysprep will remove the existing serial number, and you'll need to enter it at the next boot.
There's a program named Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder that will show it to you.
I have some questions about the procedure you described however I will put them off 'til later. While rummaging around for a copy of "clonezilla," which I found, I found an old OEM Windows XP Home SP1 CD which I installed in virtualbox with more than a little angst! My concern being where did it install Windows? Hopefully in a vacant space! I will find out when I reboot in a few minutes but Windows looks like its working there.
That's still not what I wanted, I would prefer to use the Windows already on one of my hard drives and dual boot via grub. I will try the procedure you describe, if I can't manage that then the problem will be resolved with an eventual new install of F-15.
Thank you.
Bob
On 25/03/11 10:45, compdoc wrote:
While rummaging around for a copy of "clonezilla," which I found..
Don't bother with old versions of clonezilla you might have laying around. Like any linux, the project is constantly updated. Download the current version.
Ok, will do that next.
And the computer did reboot without a glitch so it looks like no harm done, I worry about what Windows might do!
Bob
That's still not what I wanted, I would prefer to use the Windows already on one of my hard drives and dual boot via grub. I will try the procedure you describe, if I can't manage that then the problem will be resolved with an eventual new install of F-15.
This was something I posted earlier, but I didn't reply to the thread properly, so it might have started a new thread:
My problem is that the only way I can get Windows to run is to plug it into the first slot, then Windows boots but I never see grub.
By first slot I guess you sata port? It's been a while since I've noticed Windows caring about device order. I have seen windows try to change its drive letter when it finds itself on a new drive port, but that was only under certain conditions.
When you move your windows drive to port 1, you don't see grub because grub is installed on the other drive. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about dual booting with grub, so maybe someone else here can tell you how...
I think if you were to place your windows drive in port 1, and then were to set up grub to run from the windows drive, it would solve the problem?
On 25/03/11 11:01, compdoc wrote:
That's still not what I wanted, I would prefer to use the Windows already on one of my hard drives and dual boot via grub. I will try the procedure you describe, if I can't manage that then the problem will be resolved with an eventual new install of F-15.
This was something I posted earlier, but I didn't reply to the thread properly, so it might have started a new thread:
My problem is that the only way I can get Windows to run is to plug it into the first slot, then Windows boots but I never see grub.
By first slot I guess you sata port? It's been a while since I've noticed Windows caring about device order. I have seen windows try to change its drive letter when it finds itself on a new drive port, but that was only under certain conditions.
When you move your windows drive to port 1, you don't see grub because grub is installed on the other drive. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about dual booting with grub, so maybe someone else here can tell you how...
I think if you were to place your windows drive in port 1, and then were to set up grub to run from the windows drive, it would solve the problem?
Yes, and it does, selects Windows or Linux, but then I get the wrong F-14.
I shrunk the Windows partition and installed a new copy of F-14 on the hard drive that came with this box [I bought it with XP Pro installed].
The working copy of F-14 that I am using now to type this is updated and very much re-configured with XFCE, etc. and was transplanted from a failed computer that did dual boot ok. Now if I could do surgery on this grub with a text editor and install it's lines booting this drive in place of the lines booting the un-updated copy ... Can I do that?
A few days ago I was messing with grub and had to "rescue" with grub-install. I tend to panic when I lose this computer, although I have a second like it for backup and my nfs server too.
Bob
On 3/25/2011 11:55 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
That's still not what I wanted, I would prefer to use the
Windows already on one of my hard drives and dual boot via grub. I will try the procedure you describe, if I can't manage that then the problem will be resolved with an eventual new install of F-15. My problem is that the only way I can get Windows to run is to plug it into the first slot, then Windows boots but I never see grub.
Bob: Somehow, I missed this part. You have a very simple problem. What you need to do is set up the Windows drive as you describe above (you can also usually go into BIOS and tell the computer which drive to boot off of regardless of which slot a hard drive is in). You then want to boot from your Fedora CD and go into "rescue mode"; there, you'll be able to use a simple command to rewrite your grub.conf file to the MBR on the Windows drive, which will then give you your desired dual-boot option...
There are lots of sites out there that discuss how to do the above; here's one: http://danleff.net/myarticles/fedorainstall/linuxinstallharddrives5.html
when I made that first suggestion, I misunderstood your desired result and thought you wanted to run your Old Windows XP as a virtualized machine inside Virtual Box - maybe because of the title of this thread ;-)
On 25/03/11 17:37, Claude Jones wrote:
On 3/25/2011 11:55 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
That's still not what I wanted, I would prefer to use the
Windows already on one of my hard drives and dual boot via grub. I will try the procedure you describe, if I can't manage that then the problem will be resolved with an eventual new install of F-15. My problem is that the only way I can get Windows to run is to plug it into the first slot, then Windows boots but I never see grub.
Bob: Somehow, I missed this part. You have a very simple problem. What you need to do is set up the Windows drive as you describe above (you can also usually go into BIOS and tell the computer which drive to boot off of regardless of which slot a hard drive is in). You then want to boot from your Fedora CD and go into "rescue mode"; there, you'll be able to use a simple command to rewrite your grub.conf file to the MBR on the Windows drive, which will then give you your desired dual-boot option...
There are lots of sites out there that discuss how to do the above; here's one: http://danleff.net/myarticles/fedorainstall/linuxinstallharddrives5.html
when I made that first suggestion, I misunderstood your desired result and thought you wanted to run your Old Windows XP as a virtualized machine inside Virtual Box - maybe because of the title of this thread ;-)
Claude & Compdoc:
I finally have this working and dual booting from the original Windows drive.
The original drive is in the first position and as I mentioned earlier I installed F14 on it from DVD, that created a grub that booted either WindowsXP or the new F14 which was not updated and configured to suit me.
With a text editor I copied a kernel line from grub.conf in the updated F14 install into the new grub on the Windows drive which is the drive the system boots from now. It works as I want I to. A major accomplishment for me. Someone more skilled might have done it differently and faster.
It took some messing with the grub "hdx" designations to get things working. Curiously I could not make changes using the grub editor permanent? I finally had to do that from my text editor "e3em." I hope my changes will survive the next kernel yum update.
As a byproduct of this effort I also have a working "virtualbox" which also runs windows but is not as convenient to use although v'box has other potential uses. I never did get it to use the Windows already on the hard drive, it ran with one I installed from an OEM CD and updated with SP3.
A lot of effort to get Windows running for just one application but I learned a few things that I will use.
Thanks to all.
Bob .
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Bob Goodwin -
Claude Jones -
compdoc -
Greg Woods -
Richard Shaw -
SternData