Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Before I start installing and testing roundcube, rainloop, and the others, I thought I would ask this list if they have a preference for users on mobile?
I've searched for an updated review of all the main players these days, but the most recent appears to be from 2015.
Thanks, Alex
On 06/06/2017 11:42 AM, Alex wrote:
Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Before I start installing and testing roundcube, rainloop, and the others, I thought I would ask this list if they have a preference for users on mobile?
Why wouldn't you just use an IMAP client on the phone?
Hi,
Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Before I start installing and testing roundcube, rainloop, and the others, I thought I would ask this list if they have a preference for users on mobile?
Why wouldn't you just use an IMAP client on the phone?
Yes, I agree, and that's what I've asked them to do, but they still prefer the webmail client.
On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:27:51 -0400 Alex wrote:
Why wouldn't you just use an IMAP client on the phone?
Yes, I agree, and that's what I've asked them to do, but they still prefer the webmail client.
Then that means they prefer squirrelmail, right? So you might as well keep using it or they'll hate the replacement just as irrationally :-).
On 06/06/2017 12:36 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:27:51 -0400 Alex wrote:
Why wouldn't you just use an IMAP client on the phone?
Yes, I agree, and that's what I've asked them to do, but they still prefer the webmail client.
Then that means they prefer squirrelmail, right? So you might as well keep using it or they'll hate the replacement just as irrationally :-).
I would second this. Someone that prefers webmail *on a phone* over a native app is likely to complain about any changes to the webmail system. Besides, if the webmail is bad enough on the phone, maybe eventually they will overcome the inertia to switch to a real email client. ;-)
On 6 June 2017 at 20:53, Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
Then that means they prefer squirrelmail, right? So you might as well keep using it or they'll hate the replacement just as irrationally :-).
I would second this. Someone that prefers webmail *on a phone* over a native app is likely to complain about any changes to the webmail system. Besides, if the webmail is bad enough on the phone, maybe eventually they will overcome the inertia to switch to a real email client. ;-)
Then perhaps the solution you are looking for is actually throttling SquirrelMail's connection speed?
"No, it's just you... The IMAP client is perfectly fine, here, look!"
*evil grin*
On 06/06/2017 12:27 PM, Alex wrote:
Yes, I agree, and that's what I've asked them to do, but they still prefer the webmail client.
Maybe you could point out to them that all the major webmail (and forum) providers don't expect you to use the web interface on your phone. They provide alternate access, usually with a native app (or standard protocol) of some sort.
Allegedly, on or about 06 June 2017, Samuel Sieb sent:
Maybe you could point out to them that all the major webmail (and forum) providers don't expect you to use the web interface on your phone. They provide alternate access, usually with a native app (or standard protocol) of some sort.
Or, if the phone is like someone's Android tablet I had a play with. It's supplied mail app uses *their* (device's manufacturer's) server to connect to yours via standard protocols. It was the only way to use it. And a lovely security hole.
You would have to install some other mail app to do it any other way, or use webmail.
If you're implementing a service as your job, I think you'd need to find out whether any of the users are stuck with hard limits about how they can access mail.
On 06/06/2017 11:42 AM, Alex wrote:
Before I start installing and testing roundcube, rainloop, and the others, I thought I would ask this list if they have a preference for users on mobile?
I've gotten to be pretty impressed with SOGo.
They maintain a yum repo for customers. If you want to build your own using mock, you might need to make a couple of minor changes. These make it easier:
On 06/06/2017 11:42 AM, Alex wrote:
Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Just to clarify for others reading this thread, Squirrelmail is a web-based mail _server_, not a client. It pulls mail off an MTA (mail transport agent like sendmail) by either behaving like an MDA (mail delivery agent) or by using a real MDA such as dovecot.
Users then use their web browser as an MUA (mail user agent) to pick up their mail from the server rather than a traditional MUA such as mutt, pine, elm or graphical clients such as Thunderbird, Geary, Sylpheed or (gasp!) Outlook (yes, I actually said the "O" word! Don't hit me!)
Before I start installing and testing roundcube, rainloop, and the others, I thought I would ask this list if they have a preference for users on mobile?
Whatever you choose, keep in mind that mobile users will suffer from bandwidth limitations, connectivity issues and the like. The "busier" the web pages are, the more likely you're going to have mobile users whine about latency, disconnects, buffering and other issues inherent in mobile access. That's the nature of the beast.
Try to ensure that the web server portion of the system queries the browser to find out what it is so the server can adjust its presentation (via .css stylesheets and other mechanisms) to minimize bandwidth and screen real estate for mobile users. You often see this with websites that have "handheld-friendly" versions.
That being said, unless you're going to offer calendars, whiteboards, contact lists, chat rooms, etc., etc. for your users (essentially a virtual office), the best thing is to wean them off webmail to more classic mail clients. Virtually all mobile OSes (well, iOS and Android--can't speak to Winblows mobile) have pretty good mail clients built in. At least they're consistent with the user interface used by the device. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at - - from both sides. --A.M. Greeley - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Rick Stevens ricks@alldigital.com wrote:
On 06/06/2017 11:42 AM, Alex wrote:
Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Just to clarify for others reading this thread, Squirrelmail is a web-based mail _server_, not a client. It pulls mail off an MTA (mail transport agent like sendmail) by either behaving like an MDA (mail delivery agent) or by using a real MDA such as dovecot.
Yes, I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear, thanks.
Whatever you choose, keep in mind that mobile users will suffer from bandwidth limitations, connectivity issues and the like. The "busier" the web pages are, the more likely you're going to have mobile users whine about latency, disconnects, buffering and other issues inherent in mobile access. That's the nature of the beast.
Another great point.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Mobile seems to drive everything these days. I'll push back again about a mobile webmail client (as it's referred to by those using it).
Can I expand my question to more generally ask about the best squirrelmail replacement these days? Roundcube? Rainloop?
On 06/06/2017 02:14 PM, Alex wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Rick Stevens ricks@alldigital.com wrote:
On 06/06/2017 11:42 AM, Alex wrote:
Hi, we have fedora25 set up with apache and dovecot and have been using squirrelmail. We're looking to replace squirrelmail with something more modern and "responsive" on mobile.
Just to clarify for others reading this thread, Squirrelmail is a web-based mail _server_, not a client. It pulls mail off an MTA (mail transport agent like sendmail) by either behaving like an MDA (mail delivery agent) or by using a real MDA such as dovecot.
Yes, I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear, thanks.
No worries, but missives on this list get quoted a lot on other lists and archives. Just wanted to make sure folk understood what was going on.
Whatever you choose, keep in mind that mobile users will suffer from bandwidth limitations, connectivity issues and the like. The "busier" the web pages are, the more likely you're going to have mobile users whine about latency, disconnects, buffering and other issues inherent in mobile access. That's the nature of the beast.
Another great point.
I deal with streaming a LOT. You can't believe the number of people who want to do live HD streaming from handheld devices and wonder why the quality often, well, sucks or why they keep getting disconnected.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Mobile seems to drive everything these days. I'll push back again about a mobile webmail client (as it's referred to by those using it).
Again, the webmail client is just a web browser like Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, Epiphany and the like. You're dealing with the server. You may have to bugger the way the server deals with various browsers (working around gotchas, dealing with presentation issues such as fonts, SSL ciphers, etc.).
Can I expand my question to more generally ask about the best squirrelmail replacement these days? Roundcube? Rainloop?
I haven't used any of them. Back in the day I set up and used Gnu/Hurd and its underlings. The primary two items (webmail and calendars) got sucked into Squirrelmail and my career changed direction so I've lost touch with that whole end of the ISP world. I'm sure others here are much more in tune with that arena and will offer sage advice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - The moving cursor writes, and having written, blinks on. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 06/06/2017 02:01 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
Just to clarify for others reading this thread, Squirrelmail is a web-based mail _server_, not a client. It pulls mail off an MTA (mail transport agent like sendmail) by either behaving like an MDA (mail delivery agent) or by using a real MDA such as dovecot.
Users then use their web browser as an MUA (mail user agent) to pick up their mail from the server rather than a traditional MUA such as mutt, pine, elm or graphical clients such as Thunderbird, Geary, Sylpheed or (gasp!) Outlook (yes, I actually said the "O" word! Don't hit me!)
Assuming I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, this isn't correct. Squirrelmail is a PHP-based MUA that talks IMAP and SMTP to the appropriate servers. It generates an HTML gui for the web browser to interact with.
On 06/06/2017 02:17 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/06/2017 02:01 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
Just to clarify for others reading this thread, Squirrelmail is a web-based mail _server_, not a client. It pulls mail off an MTA (mail transport agent like sendmail) by either behaving like an MDA (mail delivery agent) or by using a real MDA such as dovecot.
Users then use their web browser as an MUA (mail user agent) to pick up their mail from the server rather than a traditional MUA such as mutt, pine, elm or graphical clients such as Thunderbird, Geary, Sylpheed or (gasp!) Outlook (yes, I actually said the "O" word! Don't hit me!)
Assuming I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, this isn't correct. Squirrelmail is a PHP-based MUA that talks IMAP and SMTP to the appropriate servers. It generates an HTML gui for the web browser to interact with.
In the classic sense, a MUA lived on your local machine, extracted messages from an MDA via POP3 or IMAP (or even wacky things like MAPI) and deposited them on the local machine. Most modern MUAs now default to working with messages left on the MDA but offer the option to download messages from the MDA to "local folders". Those messages can be either erased at the MDA or left on the MDA with the option of marking them as "read".
I think of Squirrelmail as a remote MUA or an MUA proxy. The MUA functionality remains on the Squirrelmail server--not on the client as in a classic MUA. It simply uses the browser to do the GUI part of the job. You have to explicitly request downloading of messages as they ordinarily stay on the MDA. Ancillary things like contact lists, calendars and whatnot are stored in databases on the Squirrelmail server (or whatever its backing store is). Unless told otherwise, nothing stays on the client. POP3 and IMAP are not involved between the Squirrelmail server and the client accessing it. Only http(s).
As with any client/server mechanism, sometimes the functionality lines are blurred but that's how I view it. Now, things may have changed since I last futzed with Squirrelmail, but that's the way it used to work. As I said in another posting, it's been a long time since I was active in webmailish things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - I haven't lost my mind. It's backed up on tape somewhere, but - - probably not recoverable. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 06/06/2017 03:04 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
I think of Squirrelmail as a remote MUA or an MUA proxy. The MUA functionality remains on the Squirrelmail server--not on the client as in a classic MUA. It simply uses the browser to do the GUI part of the job. You have to explicitly request downloading of messages as they ordinarily stay on the MDA. Ancillary things like contact lists, calendars and whatnot are stored in databases on the Squirrelmail server (or whatever its backing store is). Unless told otherwise, nothing stays on the client. POP3 and IMAP are not involved between the Squirrelmail server and the client accessing it. Only http(s).
Now that is a great description that I agree with. Maybe it was just how you worded it the first time that was confusing.
On 06/06/2017 03:19 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/06/2017 03:04 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
I think of Squirrelmail as a remote MUA or an MUA proxy. The MUA functionality remains on the Squirrelmail server--not on the client as in a classic MUA. It simply uses the browser to do the GUI part of the job. You have to explicitly request downloading of messages as they ordinarily stay on the MDA. Ancillary things like contact lists, calendars and whatnot are stored in databases on the Squirrelmail server (or whatever its backing store is). Unless told otherwise, nothing stays on the client. POP3 and IMAP are not involved between the Squirrelmail server and the client accessing it. Only http(s).
Now that is a great description that I agree with. Maybe it was just how you worded it the first time that was confusing.
Quite possibly. "Caution: Ensure brain is engaged before typing." I probably didn't bother with the first bit. Sorry for the confusion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - su -; find / -name someone -exec touch {} ; - - - The UNIX way of touching someone - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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