I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
Then it will either all go away, or I'll get a lasting window telling me it's already running but not responding. Sometimes after that Firefox will actually launch, sometimes not.
If not, sometimes clicking the launcher again will bring it up; sometimes it comes up double, or even with two different sessions -- and shutting either will usually shut both. Other times it helps to do ps ax| grep firefox, find one or several pids with question marks, kill them, and start over.
It is consistently worse on some machines than others -- but not, afaict, on F8 more than F9 or vice versa, nor with Ffx 2 more or less than the other.
I try to keep it as nearly standardized as I can. The best way is to add FEBE to any new install of Firefox, and then copy in a FEBE folder by scp or sneakermail, and run a restore.
But I have one machine (a Dell Poweredge SC 1420, formerly the server for a private list, and not yet fully wiped) which refuses adamantly to read media or to do scp; so there are hardly any extensions on its Ffx -- and it works better.
Are there extensions that Fedora will allow but not get along with, or that don't get along with Fedora? Do I have too many? (The latest FEBE restore tab listed 79 items.) Or what?
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 15:03 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I try to keep it as nearly standardized as I can. The best wayis to add FEBE to any new install of Firefox, and then copy in a FEBE folder by scp or sneakermail, and run a restore.
What's FEBE?
poc
FEBE is another Addonf for backing up firefox settings, extension info, etc.
Kevin
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:58:10 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 15:03 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I try to keep it as nearly standardized as I can. The best wayis to add FEBE to any new install of Firefox, and then copy in a FEBE folder by scp or sneakermail, and run a restore.
What's FEBE?
http://customsoftwareconsult.com/extensions/febe/febeFAQ.html
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 15:03 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
---- slow startup is because Firefox looks at all installed extensions to determine whether an update is available and then Firefox looks to see if a newer version of Firefox is available. The more extensions, the longer the startup delay. You can configure this...
Firefox => Edit (menu) => Preferences => Advanced (tab) => Update (tab) ----
Then it will either all go away, or I'll get a lasting window telling me it's already running but not responding. Sometimes after that Firefox will actually launch, sometimes not.
If not, sometimes clicking the launcher again will bring it up; sometimes it comes up double, or even with two different sessions -- and shutting either will usually shut both. Other times it helps to do ps ax| grep firefox, find one or several pids with question marks, kill them, and start over.
---- Firefox creates a 'lock' file - in .mozilla/firefox/$YOUR_SALTED_PROFILE/.parentlock which is intended to prevent multiple launches.
Multiple launches often occur when double clicking to start from a launcher rather than a single click or 4 clicks when a double click is sufficient.
I run into this far too often because I sysadmin a network with a lot of less skilled computer users. This should probably be improved because the cure seems to be as bad as the problem. ----
It is consistently worse on some machines than others -- but not, afaict, on F8 more than F9 or vice versa, nor with Ffx 2 more or less than the other.
I try to keep it as nearly standardized as I can. The best way is to add FEBE to any new install of Firefox, and then copy in a FEBE folder by scp or sneakermail, and run a restore.
---- pardon my ignorance, what is FEBE ? ----
But I have one machine (a Dell Poweredge SC 1420, formerly the server for a private list, and not yet fully wiped) which refuses adamantly to read media or to do scp; so there are hardly any extensions on its Ffx -- and it works better.
Are there extensions that Fedora will allow but not get along with, or that don't get along with Fedora? Do I have too many? (The latest FEBE restore tab listed 79 items.) Or what?
---- I find all of the language extensions to be pointless for my usage but I can't tell if it's because my system/profile has existed for quite some time and has been upgraded from like FC-4, FC-5, etc.
Craig
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:14:10 -0700 Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
I find all of the language extensions to be pointless for my usage but I can't tell if it's because my system/profile has existed for quite some time and has been upgraded from like FC-4, FC-5, etc.
After doing a Firefox upgrade or install, I always crank up Firefox as root and delete all of the languages (and the dom-inspector thing). Firefox runs much faster after that.
It's never been clear to me if I could accomplish the same thing by simply deleting the language files directly instead of going through the Firefox "really delete this?" stuff.
Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:14:10 -0700 Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
I find all of the language extensions to be pointless for my usage but I can't tell if it's because my system/profile has existed for quite some time and has been upgraded from like FC-4, FC-5, etc.
After doing a Firefox upgrade or install, I always crank up Firefox as root and delete all of the languages (and the dom-inspector thing). Firefox runs much faster after that.
It's never been clear to me if I could accomplish the same thing by simply deleting the language files directly instead of going through the Firefox "really delete this?" stuff.
Yes, you can delete the languages directly. I normally do it after an upgrade, but before firing it up as root. You can find the directories containing the different languages in /usr/lib/firefox-<version>/extensions.
Mikkel
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:17:56 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
After doing a Firefox upgrade or install, I always crank up Firefox as root and delete all of the languages (and the dom-inspector thing). Firefox runs much faster after that.
I adopted your practice, with thanks; but it kept putting them back. Now I see only "disable" buttons instead of "uninstall" -- I hope at least disabling lasts longer. Why the blazes should it be the default to lug all those blasted languages along, instead of having them added ad hoc by each user? They could include, say, six languages with at least three of them non-Roman- alphabet, and 99 44/100% of the human race could use at least one of them to find the one or two missing but wanted ones.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:09:28 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I adopted your practice, with thanks; but it kept putting them back. Now I see only "disable" buttons instead of "uninstall" -- I hope at least disabling lasts longer.
That's because you didn't run firefox as root. You have to be root in order to uninstall the language packs. Users can only disable them, not uninstall them.
My procedure is this to su to root, then run firefox. Uninstall the languages (and that dom-inspector thing). Close firefox. Run firefox again (as root.) Close firefox. Exit root user. Done.
Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:09:28 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I adopted your practice, with thanks; but it kept putting them back. Now I see only "disable" buttons instead of "uninstall" -- I hope at least disabling lasts longer.
That's because you didn't run firefox as root. You have to be root in order to uninstall the language packs. Users can only disable them, not uninstall them.
My procedure is this to su to root, then run firefox. Uninstall the languages (and that dom-inspector thing). Close firefox. Run firefox again (as root.) Close firefox. Exit root user. Done.
Language packs? What language packs? I don't see any extraneous language packs in my FF3 install. Is it just the "rpm"'d version that does that because the Mozilla install doesnt' appear to have extraneous language packs.
Kevin
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:22:34 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:09:28 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I adopted your practice, with thanks; but it kept putting them back. Now I see only "disable" buttons instead of "uninstall" -- I hope at least disabling lasts longer.
That's because you didn't run firefox as root. You have to be root in order to uninstall the language packs. Users can only disable them, not uninstall them.
But I did. Over and over, once you told me I could do it with a CLI launch from a root prompt; and it kept putting them back.
My procedure is this to su to root, then run firefox. Uninstall the languages (and that dom-inspector thing). Close firefox. Run firefox again (as root.) Close firefox. Exit root user. Done.
I'll try it once more. And dollars to doughnuts they all come back. Probably the very next time I update Firefox; certainly when I upgrade my OS.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I'll try it once more. And dollars to doughnuts they all come back. Probably the very next time I update Firefox; certainly when I upgrade my OS.
They will, when you update Firefox. The language packs are part of the Firefox rpms. So you have to remove them each time after you do a Firefox update.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:57:16 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I'll try it once more. And dollars to doughnuts they all come back. Probably the very next time I update Firefox; certainly when I upgrade my OS.
They will, when you update Firefox. The language packs are part of the Firefox rpms. So you have to remove them each time after you do a Firefox update.
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
*Why* are the rpms that way?? Can an ordinary non-technoid get them out? Or get rpms without them somewhere?? If the latter, what will happen when something involving Firefox turns up on a yum update??
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 21:32 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:57:16 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
I'll try it once more. And dollars to doughnuts they all come back. Probably the very next time I update Firefox; certainly when I upgrade my OS.
They will, when you update Firefox. The language packs are part of the Firefox rpms. So you have to remove them each time after you do a Firefox update.
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
*Why* are the rpms that way?? Can an ordinary non-technoid get them out? Or get rpms without them somewhere?? If the latter, what will happen when something involving Firefox turns up on a yum update??
Do you mean you update FF using its builtin updater rather than with yum? (I'm talking about FF itself of course, not the add-ons). In my system the "Check for updates" menu item is greyed out.
And I don't see any language packs other than English and Spanish, which are the ones I've enabled. The others are there of course (I can enable them if I want), but they don't get in the way and I strongly doubt they using any resources other than a modest amount of disk space (11MB on my system).
I'd seriously doubt this has anything to do with slow start-times.
poc
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:45:52 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 21:32 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:57:16 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
[....]
The language packs are part of the Firefox rpms. So you have to remove them each time after you do a Firefox update.
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
*Why* are the rpms that way?? Can an ordinary non-technoid get them out? Or get rpms without them somewhere?? If the latter, what will happen when something involving Firefox turns up on a yum update??
Do you mean you update FF using its builtin updater rather than with yum? (I'm talking about FF itself of course, not the add-ons). In my system the "Check for updates" menu item is greyed out.
Yes, the Firefox updater, which always finishes by telling you to restart Firefox -- whereupon, of course, it usually hangs ....
That's as big a reason as any why I'm thinking -- very reluctantly, but seriously -- of giving up on it, at least for a year or three.
And I don't see any language packs other than English and Spanish, which are the ones I've enabled. The others are there of course (I can enable them if I want), but they don't get in the way and I strongly doubt they using any resources other than a modest amount of disk space (11MB on my system).
I'd seriously doubt this has anything to do with slow start-times.
Probably true, except perhaps on the older smaller EEEPCs (one of which I have -- but seldom use), where every megabyte matters. But it was worth trying.
I don't suppose I'll have much idea for a few days whether any of this has hit some magic button somewhere. If not, I'll just start uninstalling apps I can do without if I have to, nice or not ....
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 22:59 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:45:52 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 21:32 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:57:16 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
[....]
The language packs are part of the Firefox rpms. So you have to remove them each time after you do a Firefox update.
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
*Why* are the rpms that way?? Can an ordinary non-technoid get them out? Or get rpms without them somewhere?? If the latter, what will happen when something involving Firefox turns up on a yum update??
Do you mean you update FF using its builtin updater rather than with yum? (I'm talking about FF itself of course, not the add-ons). In my system the "Check for updates" menu item is greyed out.
Yes, the Firefox updater, which always finishes by telling you to restart Firefox -- whereupon, of course, it usually hangs ....
The only reason I have to restart FF is if I update one of my add-ons. The rpm version of FF distributed via yum does *not* update itself, i.e. that funcionality is disabled. On Fedora it relies on you using the normal "yum update" (or PackageKit) mechanisms. It's not ideal because the updates consist in a new copy of the entire rpm, rather than the incremental changes the builtin updater uses, but at least it's consistent with the rest of Fedora.
Of course you can also download the tarball version from getfirefox.org and just run it from your own directory. I've also done that on occasion. What is probably not a good idea is to mix them. I'm wondering if that's what's happening to you.
That's as big a reason as any why I'm thinking -- very reluctantly, but seriously -- of giving up on it, at least for a year or three.
And I don't see any language packs other than English and Spanish, which are the ones I've enabled. The others are there of course (I can enable them if I want), but they don't get in the way and I strongly doubt they using any resources other than a modest amount of disk space (11MB on my system).
I'd seriously doubt this has anything to do with slow start-times.
Probably true, except perhaps on the older smaller EEEPCs (one of which I have -- but seldom use), where every megabyte matters. But it was worth trying.
Of course you want to save space on a small disk, but once again: AFAIK this has *no* effect on the running FF either in memory consumption or cpu usage.
poc
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:32:16 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
Why would you do that? Firefox updates are relatively few (at least, not more than once every couple of months or so). There's no need or purpose served by update Firefox daily or weekly -- what are you updating it that often?
If you subscribe to the "Fedora Package announce" mailing list you'll receive an email notifying you of updates to Firefox, and everything else.
*Why* are the rpms that way??
I have no idea. Possibly to insure that all bases are covered -- if you have a Chinese installation then you already have the Chinese language pack for Firefox, and so on.
Can an ordinary non-technoid get them out?
Just delete them after the (infrequent) Firefox updates.
Or get rpms without them somewhere??
Mozilla distributes binary files directly, but I'm not sure if they are rpms or not. I suspect they're just regular tar files. Whether they also come with all of those language packs is another thing that I'm not sure of.
If the latter, what will happen when something involving Firefox turns up on a yum update??
That would depend on the naming, epoch and dependencies of the Firefox rpms that you already have installed.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:05:17 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:32:16 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Aaarrgghhhh : I update firefox more days than not.
Why would you do that?
Very simple -- I'm talking about what the firefox updater calls updates : i.e., new releases of any or several add-ons, *not* new releases of Firefox itself.
What else am I supposed to call them, instead of what Firefox itself calls them??
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:43:28 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Very simple -- I'm talking about what the firefox updater calls updates : i.e., new releases of any or several add-ons, *not* new releases of Firefox itself.
If you remove the extraneous language packs as I instructed earlier, they will not come back until you update Firefox. Updating the add-ons is not updating Firefox.
What else am I supposed to call them, instead of what Firefox itself calls them??
I would call it updating a Firefox add-on or extension. Which is a completely different issue than updating Firefox.
Here, by the way, probably lies your problem. Your original issue was long start-up times and instability. If you're really loading that many extensions and add-ons into Firefox, that's the reason. The higher you pile the load on the wagon, the harder it is to pull and the more likely it is that something will fall off.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:02:53 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:43:28 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
[....]
What else am I supposed to call them, instead of what Firefox itself calls them??
I would call it updating a Firefox add-on or extension. Which is a completely different issue than updating Firefox.
Well, I wish I had guessed that at the outset.
Here, by the way, probably lies your problem. Your original issue was long start-up times and instability. If you're really loading that many extensions and add-ons into Firefox, that's the reason. The higher you pile the load on the wagon, the harder it is to pull and the more likely it is that something will fall off.
All right, at least, at last, we get down to it. What is a reasonable number of extensions to run? I.e., a number that will still keep Firefox fast and stable? And are all extensions equal, in the loads they add, whether to speed or to stability? (I doubt that, come to think of it.) Is there any way to identify, or even guess, which ones are prime candidates for jettisoning?
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:43:48 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Is there any way to identify, or even guess, which ones are prime candidates for jettisoning?
"Everything that you don't actually need" would be a good place to start.
Go through the list and uninstall the un-necessary stuff. It's hard for me to tell you what you need as you're the one who's using your computer.
I can, however, tell you that you probably don't need 70+ extensions.
It all depends on what you're doing and how you like to do it.
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 19:43 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
All right, at least, at last, we get down to it. What is areasonable number of extensions to run? I.e., a number that will still keep Firefox fast and stable?
That's like asking how long is a piece of string, since everyone's needs are different. However I can comment that I currently have 22 add-ons installed and enabled, and another half dozen or so installed but disabled.
And are all extensions equal, in the loads they add, whether to speed or to stability? (I doubt that, come to think of it.)
Obviously not. FlagFox shows a little flag for the country of the website you're visiting, and I doubt it takes as many resources as some Gmail add-ons I have.
Is there any way to identify, or even guess, which ones are prime candidates for jettisoning?
Not as far as I know. It would be a Good Thing (tm) of course.
poc
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:06:45 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 19:43 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
All right, at least, at last, we get down to it. What is areasonable number of extensions to run? I.e., a number that will still keep Firefox fast and stable?
That's like asking how long is a piece of string, since everyone's needs are different. However I can comment that I currently have 22 add-ons installed and enabled, and another half dozen or so installed but disabled.
And are all extensions equal, in the loads they add, whether to speed or to stability? (I doubt that, come to think of it.)
Obviously not. FlagFox shows a little flag for the country of the website you're visiting, and I doubt it takes as many resources as some Gmail add-ons I have.
Is there any way to identify, or even guess, which ones are prime candidates for jettisoning?
Not as far as I know. It would be a Good Thing (tm) of course.
OK, I've been uninstalling hand over fist on three machines. The fourth behind the KVM switch is an erstwhile server whose data has been put in a better place; I wiped it with DBAN and did a fresh install of F8.
I'm not entirely sure at this point what I have on which machine; I'm afraid I may have inadvertently removed *all* the extensions on one of them -- emptied out /home/btth/FEBE after a lot of deletions, without thinking to do a fresh backup before telling it to restore. <sigh>
But I *think* two of them are down to about fifty each, and close to the same fifty. I'd like to believe those two now run better, but it's too early to be sure. If that pans out, it should be straightforward to copy the FEBE file from one of them onto the new install or the stripped one, do a restore, and have a working collection.
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:25:02 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
But I *think* two of them are down to about fifty each,
Fifty extensions? Wow.
My Firefox currently has 8 extension installed and I don't think I'm really missing out on anything.
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:49:54 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:25:02 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
But I *think* two of them are down to about fifty each,
Fifty extensions? Wow.
My Firefox currently has 8 extension installed and I don't think I'm really missing out on anything.
I just got through counting; on the machine I'm on right now, ignoring things grayed out, there are three dozen. At least eight defenses -- NoScript, noreferrer, adblock, flashblock, redirect remover, etc.; half a dozen or more are for tweaking tabbed browsing; and the rest are either reference tools like the Mozilla Internet Dictionary, or conveniences like colorful tabs, no squint, and speed dial.
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 06:20:46PM +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:49:54 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:25:02 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
But I *think* two of them are down to about fifty each,
Fifty extensions? Wow.
My Firefox currently has 8 extension installed and I don't think I'm really missing out on anything.
I just got through counting; on the machine I'm on right now, ignoring things grayed out, there are three dozen. At least eight defenses -- NoScript, noreferrer, adblock, flashblock, redirect remover, etc.; half a dozen or more are for tweaking tabbed browsing; and the rest are either reference tools like the Mozilla Internet Dictionary, or conveniences like colorful tabs, no squint, and speed dial.
I have about four or five extensions and even that seems a bit excessive to me!
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:20:46 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
NoScript, noreferrer, adblock, flashblock, redirect remover,
Some of these are redundant. For example, Noscript can block flash, so you don't need flashblock if you have noscript installed. And so on. I'm less than shocked that you're having problems. You are loading far too many extensions (the mere fact that it can be done does not imply that it should be done) and some of them are stepping on each other trying to do the same job.
If you want to set up a new Firefox correctly and reasonably securely (for certain values of correct and secure, of course), read my article here:
http://www.melvilletheatre.com/articles/squid-privoxy/index.html
You can tweak the privoxy configuration to determine how it handles many things (including referrers) and you won't have to have 6 million (or three dozen) Firefox extensions loaded.
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:54:11 -0600, Frank Cox wrote: [....]
If you want to set up a new Firefox correctly and reasonably securely (for certain values of correct and secure, of course), read my article here:
http://www.melvilletheatre.com/articles/squid-privoxy/index.html
You can tweak the privoxy configuration to determine how it handles many things (including referrers) and you won't have to have 6 million (or three dozen) Firefox extensions loaded.
OK, I've never had the nerve to try tweaking privoxy, either. But I went to your site, copied the sample squid config file, installed squid, cd'd root to /etc/squid, moved squid.conf.default to a backup, created a new one with "nano -w squid.conf.default," and copied your version into it.
Then I got this :
[root@Hbsk2 squid]# cd [root@Hbsk2 ~]# /usr/sbin/squid -z FATAL: Could not determine fully qualified hostname. Please set 'visible_hostname'
Squid Cache (Version 3.0.STABLE7): Terminated abnormally. CPU Usage: 0.012 seconds = 0.007 user + 0.005 sys Maximum Resident Size: 0 KB Page faults with physical i/o: 0 [root@Hbsk2 ~]#
I don't know what a qualified hostname is, fully or not.
Since these posts I've had a thread called "VDQ : machine names??"
I did two of the three things recommended by Phil Meyer, and was warned about the third before doing it.
I now have
[root@Hbsk2 ~]# cat /etc/sysconfig/network NETWORKING=yes HOSTNAME=Hbsk2.localdomain [root@Hbsk2 ~]#
and [root@Hbsk2 ~]# cat /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 # nVidia Corporation MCP61 Ethernet DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=dhcp HWADDR=00:1e:8c:a3:89:22 ONBOOT=yes NM_CONTROLLED=no DHCP_HOSTNAME=Hbsk2.localdomain TYPE=Ethernet [.... etc....]
but I remain confused about /etc/hosts, and the same Phil Meyer had also said
It looks like your 'hostname' was not in /etc/hosts, so don't change it. :) Mostly folks with fixed IPs or servers mess with /etc/hosts and then forget they did it. :)
So I have not touched /etc/hosts.
What need I do to make /usr/sbin/squid -z work?
Maybe I'm just outta my depth here. I have to say that config file would take me years of effort just to read through.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Maybe I'm just outta my depth here. I have to say that config file would take me years of effort just to read through.
It only takes a second to run a text search on squid.conf, you don't have to read the whole thing.
# TAG: visible_hostname # If you want to present a special hostname in error messages, etc, # define this. Otherwise, the return value of gethostname() # will be used. If you have multiple caches in a cluster and # get errors about IP-forwarding you must set them to have individual # names with this setting. # #Default: # none
I don't have any special setting for that in the squid.conf file on my F8 and Centos 5 computers. I vaguely remember having to set that option previously; I think it was when I was using a single-word name for my computer. After I started using a "fully qualified" name, I no longer had to set it. (This computer is named mutt.melvilletheatre.net -- if I had named it mutt then I would have to put a fully qualified name in the squid.conf file.)
What do you get when you type
hostname
at a bash prompt?
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:48:29 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Maybe I'm just outta my depth here. I have to say that config file would take me years of effort just to read through.
It only takes a second to run a text search on squid.conf, you don't have to read the whole thing.
A text search on what? Hostname? I'll try to remember that trick next time.
# TAG: visible_hostname # If you want to present a special hostname in error messages, etc, # define this. Otherwise, the return value of gethostname() # will be used.
With that parenthesis, that looks like a command; so I tried it :
[btth@Hbsk2 ~]$ gethostname bash: gethostname: command not found [btth@Hbsk2 ~]$
(Same result as root, btw)
If you have multiple caches in a cluster and # get errors about IP-forwarding you must set them to have individual # names with this setting.
Caches? Cluster?? Geek to me...
# #Default: # none
I don't have any special setting for that in the squid.conf file on my F8 and Centos 5 computers. I vaguely remember having to set that option previously; I think it was when I was using a single-word name for my computer. After I started using a "fully qualified" name, I no longer had to set it. (This computer is named mutt.melvilletheatre.net -- if I had named it mutt then I would have to put a fully qualified name in the squid.conf file.)
Hmmm .... I left "localdomain" on all mine, for fear of getting in trouble if I changed it. Maybe I should?
What do you get when you type
hostname
at a bash prompt?
[btth@Hbsk2 ~]$ hostname Hbsk2.localdomain [btth@Hbsk2 ~]$
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:46:11 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
[btth@Hbsk2 ~]$ hostname Hbsk2.localdomain
That's your hostname. Specify that hostname in your squid.conf file and see what happens.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:36:18 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
[btth@Hbsk2 ~]$ hostname Hbsk2.localdomain
That's your hostname. Specify that hostname in your squid.conf file and see what happens.
Where in squid.conf??
I just kept telling nano ^W till it looped -- and found the term innumerable times in commented discussion which might as well have been in Cuneiform Hittite, but no uncommented line such as "hostname= "
Meanwhile, I went ahead with your other directions, including setting a network proxy (which I've never looked at, let alone used) -- and now none of my browsers connect. I feel like Mickey Mouse fighting brooms ....
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:53:30 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Where in squid.conf??
FATAL: Could not determine fully qualified hostname. Please set 'visible_hostname'
Meanwhile, I went ahead with your other directions, including setting a network proxy (which I've never looked at, let alone used) -- and now none of my browsers connect.
Not surprising, as your proxy (i.e. squid) isn't running at the moment.
Slow down, read the instructions carefully, and follow each direction EXACTLY AS WRITTEN and IN ORDER, without adding or changing anything.
Solve the problem with the fully qualified host name by doing what the error message told you to do.
And then see if it works.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:59:09 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
visible_hostname
That section talks about error messages, and about the output of something called gethostname, which I don't seem to have. I don't see the relevance.
I tried blindly adding a line -- so that the passage now reads :
# TAG: visible_hostname # If you want to present a special hostname in error messages, etc, # define this. Otherwise, the return value of gethostname() # will be used. If you have multiple caches in a cluster and # get errors about IP-forwarding you must set them to have #individual names with this setting. # #Default: # none Hbsk2.localdomain
-- except that I can't make it format right in this post.
Was that supposed to make it work?
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:11:46 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
That section talks about error messages, and about the output of something called gethostname, which I don't seem to have. I don't see the relevance.
squid.conf is a CONFIGURATION FILE that happens to have a lot of instructions for use embedded in it. Everything that starts with a # sign is a "remark" and is ignored by the program. That way, you can have the instructions for use right beside and along with the actual configuration directions that the program reads and follows.
I tried blindly adding a line -- so that the passage now reads :
# TAG: visible_hostname # If you want to present a special hostname in error messages, etc, # define this. Otherwise, the return value of gethostname() # will be used. If you have multiple caches in a cluster and # get errors about IP-forwarding you must set them to have #individual names with this setting. # #Default: # none Hbsk2.localdomain
-- except that I can't make it format right in this post.
Was that supposed to make it work?
Close, but not quite. Notice that the instructions tell you that the tag is visible_hostname. You have to tell squid what Hbsk2.localdomain means using the specified tag.
visible_hostname Hbsk2.localdomain
Like that.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:17:28 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
squid.conf is a CONFIGURATION FILE that happens to have a lot of instructions for use embedded in it. Everything that starts with a # sign is a "remark" and is ignored by the program.
Yes, I understand the use of # in "commenting out"
That way, you can have the instructions for use right beside and along with the actual configuration directions that the program reads and follows.
Yes, of course; but when the instructions are pure geekish ...
I tried blindly adding a line -- so that the passage now reads :
# TAG: visible_hostname # If you want to present a special hostname in error messages, etc, # define this. Otherwise, the return value of gethostname() # will be used. If you have multiple caches in a cluster and # get errors about IP-forwarding you must set them to have #individual names with this setting. # #Default: # none Hbsk2.localdomain
-- except that I can't make it format right in this post.
Was that supposed to make it work?
Close, but not quite. Notice that the instructions tell you that the tag is visible_hostname. You have to tell squid what Hbsk2.localdomain means using the specified tag.
"tag" is not only geekish, but spark-nail-new geekish to me.
visible_hostname Hbsk2.localdomain
Like that.
OK, I changed it to that. And neither Ffx not galeon can see any site not p[rotected from proxies even yet. :-(
Gotta go. Talk atcha tomorrow. Don't think I don't appreciate it.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:53:30 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
Meanwhile, I went ahead with your other directions, including setting a network proxy (which I've never looked at, let alone used) -- and now none of my browsers connect. I feel like Mickey Mouse fighting brooms ....
Correction : Galeon and Epiphany don't connect. Opera and Dillo do; I haven't checked the others yet.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
Galeon and Epiphany don't connect.
That's because you either told them to use the proxy (that isn't currently running) or because they use the desktop proxy setting that you may or may not have set.
Opera and Dillo do;
That's because you didn't tell them to use the proxy. (Usually found under Network Settings or wording similar to that.)
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
But I went to your site, copied the sample squid config file, installed squid, cd'd root to /etc/squid, moved squid.conf.default to a backup, created a new one with "nano -w squid.conf.default," and copied your version into it.
If I'm following this, I think you have a file named squid.conf.default but no file named squid.conf?
The file should be named squid.conf. Not squid.conf.default. Just copy the example file to /etc/squid/squid.conf. That's all.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:53:02 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
If I'm following this, I think you have a file named squid.conf.default but no file named squid.conf?
The file should be named squid.conf. Not squid.conf.default. Just copy the example file to /etc/squid/squid.conf. That's all.
I had both originally; I move the .default to a backup and replaced it. The plain squid.conf shows up in nautilus with an X by it; Properites shows it as a 154.9K file, "Type: unknown" -- and trying to open it with nautilus gets an error message saying it couldn't display, and that there is no application installed for it. nano -w as user gets
[ Error reading squid.conf: Permission denied ]
As root :
# WELCOME TO SQUID 3.0.STABLE7 # ---------------------------- # and 4683 more lines of stuff.
Fwiw, I think you're using a slightly different version, no?
On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 18:00 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
FATAL: Could not determine fully qualified hostname. Please set 'visible_hostname'
I don't know what a qualified hostname is, fully or not.
There's plenty of places on the WWW that explain that, but here goes.
A "hostname" is the (generally) one-word name that you address your machine by (the name associated with a numerical IP address).
e.g. localhost is the hostname associated with 127.0.0.1 - the local loopback address (internal networking that doesn't leave the PC).
The same applies for associating a hostname with an IP address that can be connected to from another PC on the network. e.g. This PC is called gonzales (since it was the fastest box on the LAN), I set that as its hostname, and it's IP address is 192.168.1.11.
A fully-qualified domain name (FQDN) is the complete address, hostname plus the domain name. e.g. www.example.com.
Strictly speaking, it ends with a dot (representing the top of the tree), though few people see that unless they're working with domain name servers. The dot means that it's the full address, otherwise its (probably) a hostname, and the system will try and work out what domain name should be appended to it, to turn it into a FQDN.
The process of working it out *CAN* be done like this. I am "gonzales" lookup this to find my IP, I find I am 192.168.1.11. Okay, now lets lookup 192.168.1.11 (a reverse lookup) to find my FQDN, and I get told that I'm "gonzales.example.com.", and that's the end of that story.
However, if I'd queried 192.168.1.11 and been told that I'm "gonzales.lan" (note the lack of a trailing dot), I'd know that's not a FQDN, just a hostname (albeit one with a dot in it), so I'd go through the query cycle again - find the IP for gonzales.lan, then find the address associated with that IP, hopefully getting a FQDN.
This sort of thing can be a bit of a pain when someone sets up machines with multiple names, that need to be stepped through to work out the FQDN. And this set of resolution steps (find the IP, find the name, rinse, lather, repeat) is the process SSH goes through before allowing a connection (checking that names and IPs match, in both directions).
ALTERNATIVELY: Your network can be configured to prepend specific domain names to hostnames. So if a hostname is used (a name that doesn't *END* with a dot), it automatically prepends the preferred domain name to it. See the "domain" and "search" parameters that are used in the /etc/resolv.conf (man resolv.conf). Basically "domain" means providing one answer for a domain that you are part of, whereas "search" allows you to give a list of domain names to try.
e.g. If I had example.com and example.net as search parameters, and I did "ping www", my system would first see if it found an answer (finds an IP address) for just "www", then "www.example.com", then "www.example.net", in turn. The first answer wins.
There's also configuration options for what constitutes the domain name if there's multiple dots in it. e.g. Given "mail.lan.example.com", the domain could be lan.example.com or it could be example.com. You can configure whether the domain starts after the first dot, or after how many dots. The dividing line between what you consider to be a domain, or a sub-domain, is up to how you want your network configuration.
In the simple case, the /etc/hosts file is used for resolving names, but that involves putting the same hosts file on each machine on the network. I use a DNS server, which serves the same purpose, but on one central server.
Tim wrote:
The process of working it out *CAN* be done like this. I am "gonzales" lookup this to find my IP, I find I am 192.168.1.11. Okay, now lets lookup 192.168.1.11 (a reverse lookup) to find my FQDN, and I get told that I'm "gonzales.example.com.", and that's the end of that story.
I think you would have to explain what you mean by "lookup" for this explanation to be much use. There is no command "lookup" on my system.
Tim:
The process of working it out *CAN* be done like this. I am "gonzales" lookup this to find my IP, I find I am 192.168.1.11. Okay, now lets lookup 192.168.1.11 (a reverse lookup) to find my FQDN, and I get told that I'm "gonzales.example.com.", and that's the end of that story.
Timothy Murphy:
I think you would have to explain what you mean by "lookup" for this explanation to be much use. There is no command "lookup" on my system.
It's an explanation of a process, not a list of commands. "Lookup" means "get an answer *about* something," it's a dictionary word, not a computer command.
e.g. I am "gonzales" lookup this (the hostname gonzales) to find...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:41:52 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Tim wrote:
The process of working it out *CAN* be done like this. I am "gonzales" lookup this to find my IP, I find I am 192.168.1.11. Okay, now lets lookup 192.168.1.11 (a reverse lookup) to find my FQDN, and I get told that I'm "gonzales.example.com.", and that's the end of that story.
I think you would have to explain what you mean by "lookup" for this explanation to be much use. There is no command "lookup" on my system.
Fwiw, I took "lookup" as a typo for plain English "look up," and it made sense. (It may take quite a while to learn properly, but it did make sense at that point for him to say, in effect, "Now let's look jiggamadiddle up ..."
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:00:09 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:54:11 -0600, Frank Cox wrote: [....]
If you want to set up a new Firefox correctly and reasonably securely (for certain values of correct and secure, of course), read my article here:
http://www.melvilletheatre.com/articles/squid-privoxy/index.html
[...]
OK, I've never had the nerve to try tweaking privoxy, either. But I went to your site, copied the sample squid config file, installed squid, cd'd root to /etc/squid, moved squid.conf.default to a backup, created a new one with "nano -w squid.conf.default," and copied your version into it.
Then I got this :
[root@Hbsk2 squid]# cd [root@Hbsk2 ~]# /usr/sbin/squid -z FATAL: Could not determine fully qualified hostname. Please set 'visible_hostname'
Squid Cache (Version 3.0.STABLE7): Terminated abnormally. CPU Usage: 0.012 seconds = 0.007 user + 0.005 sys Maximum Resident Size: 0 KB Page faults with physical i/o: 0 [root@Hbsk2 ~]#
[...]
What need I do to make /usr/sbin/squid -z work?
[....] After some further steps, posted here, I decided (and don't remember why) that the /usr/sbin/squid -z *had* done something or other -- and tried to go on from ther with the procedure detailed in Frank Cox's article.
That got me royally snarled. Finally I just did this : [root@Hbsk2 ~]# yum remove squid [...] Running Transaction Erasing : squid [1/1] warning: /etc/squid/squid.conf.default saved as /etc/squid/ squid.conf.default.rpmsave warning: /etc/squid/squid.conf saved as /etc/squid/squid.conf.rpmsave
Removed: squid.i386 7:3.0.STABLE7-1.fc9 Complete! [root@Hbsk2 ~]#
Then I went back and changed what I could find to set browsers back to using privoxy. I couldn't find any option to set network proxy to none; so I made that privoxy, too, and gave a long list of things to connect directly to.
I mean to start over from scratch -- after a long rest, so I can have forgotten my confusions, and maybe miss some of them.
Meanwhile, I don't like that warning, nor the fact that at least some squid folders are still there; am I really back to scratch?? Do I need to go delete some folders??
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:05:48 +0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
warning: /etc/squid/squid.conf.default saved as /etc/squid/ squid.conf.default.rpmsave warning: /etc/squid/squid.conf saved as /etc/squid/squid.conf.rpmsave
Removed: squid.i386 7:3.0.STABLE7-1.fc9 Complete! [root@Hbsk2 ~]#
Meanwhile, I don't like that warning, nor the fact that at least some squid folders are still there; am I really back to scratch?? Do I need to go delete some folders??
That's just telling you that rpm found some files in /etc/squid that were changed from what they were when squid was initially installed so it renamed them to *.rpmsave and kept them for you in case you still want them.
If you want to delete everything related to squid, you can delete them (and the /etc/squid directory) too.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:14:10 -0700, Craig White wrote: [...]
slow startup is because Firefox looks at all installed extensions to determine whether an update is available and then Firefox looks to see if a newer version of Firefox is available. The more extensions, the longer the startup delay. You can configure this...
Firefox => Edit (menu) => Preferences => Advanced (tab) => Update (tab)
OK, I unchecked everything on all machines; maybe that'll help. (I usually KVM-switch my way through, testing for Fedora updates *and* Firefox updates every day or two anyway.)
Then it will either all go away, or I'll get a lasting window telling me it's already running but not responding. Sometimes after that Firefox will actually launch, sometimes not.
[...]
Firefox creates a 'lock' file - in .mozilla/firefox/$YOUR_SALTED_PROFILE/.parentlock which is intended to prevent multiple launches.
Multiple launches often occur when double clicking to start from a launcher rather than a single click or 4 clicks when a double click is sufficient.
The first thing I do on any fresh install is rejigger my desktop, which includes going into the file manager and making everything single- click; been doing it for donkey's years, ever since I discovered it was possible -- along about RH8, iirc. Among other things, it halves the carpal tunnel strain ...
I run into this far too often because I sysadmin a network with a lot of less skilled computer users. This should probably be improved because the cure seems to be as bad as the problem. ----
It is consistently worse on some machines than others -- but not, afaict, on F8 more than F9 or vice versa, nor with Ffx 2 more or less than the other.
I try to keep it as nearly standardized as I can. The best way is to add FEBE to any new install of Firefox, and then copy in a FEBE folder by scp or sneakermail, and run a restore.
pardon my ignorance, what is FEBE ?
http://customsoftwareconsult.com/extensions/febe/febeFAQ.html --
I find it a convenience as well as a safety feature. [...]
Are there extensions that Fedora will allow but not get along with, or that don't get along with Fedora? Do I have too many? (The latest FEBE restore tab listed 79 items.) Or what?
I find all of the language extensions to be pointless for my usage but I can't tell if it's because my system/profile has existed for quite some time and has been upgraded from like FC-4, FC-5, etc.
I've been doing upgrades and fresh installs, over and over, on various machines, for years; the blasted things are worse than cats -- they always come back. I think firefox sometimes runs out and gets them, unasked and unhinderable, on ordinary updates. I've known them to re- appear even after having used Frank Cox's trick of launching Ffx as root and deleting them that way.I would make restoration unasked punishable by death.
*Something* has to be done. Firefox is a fine browser when it runs; but getting it to run is within a hair of not being worth it any more.
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:33 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
*Something* has to be done. Firefox is a fine browser when itruns; but getting it to run is within a hair of not being worth it any more.
None of the things you complain about have happened to me in several years of using Firefox (basically since version 1), so I'm inclined to think it's something in your environment or add-ons.
Have you tried it on a fresh user account with no add-ons, just to check?
poc
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:10:56 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: [...]
None of the things you complain about have happened to me in several years of using Firefox (basically since version 1), so I'm inclined to think it's something in your environment or add-ons.
Oh good. That's what I wanted to hear : there is hope.
Have you tried it on a fresh user account with no add-ons, just to check?
No; good idea. I added a user; did su to the user, and invoked Ffx from the CLI; it came right up -- with all the lousy language cruft (even though I had just tried to rid it of that as root), but at least without extensions.
Just before, as root, I had invoked it from a CLI, and gone after those languages -- only to find a "disable" button and *NO* uninstall button on each, even for root.
In each case, it left a bunch of messages on the CLI, which look remarkably similar -- and failed to return my command line :
===== ===== ===== ===== [root@localhost ~]# GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetMIMEDescription GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetMIMEDescription return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue: returning plugin name. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue: returning plugin description. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x92c1430: NP_GetValue return
===== ===== ===== =====
===== ===== ===== ===== [btth@localhost ~]$ su - FxT Password: [FxT@localhost ~]$ firefox & [1] 20501 [FxT@localhost ~]$ GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetMIMEDescription GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetMIMEDescription return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue: returning plugin name. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue: returning plugin description. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0x8b0d430: NP_GetValue return
===== ===== ===== =====
So: that's the latest. If, as I hope, the trouble is on my end, does anybody have an approach to finding it any less tedious than uninstalling and reinstalling every extension, one by one, on every machine??
Are there at least any to be particularly suspicious of? Extensions more likely than others not to play nice with Fedora, or with other supposedly compatible extensions?
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:27:14 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:10:56 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: [...]
None of the things you complain about have happened to me in several years of using Firefox (basically since version 1), so I'm inclined to think it's something in your environment or add-ons.
Oh good. That's what I wanted to hear : there is hope.
Have you tried it on a fresh user account with no add-ons, just to check?
No; good idea. I added a user; did su to the user, and invoked Ffx from the CLI; it came right up -- with all the lousy language cruft (even though I had just tried to rid it of that as root), but at least without extensions.
On my present #1 machine, with the add-ond cut down to about three dozen, it has been arrantly refusing to launch from a launcher. I finally tried "firefox &" as my regular user. It did launch -- and I have a growing wad of messages like these :
===== ===== ===== ===== [btth@localhost ~]$ firefox & [1] 29425 [btth@localhost ~]$ Sun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: VERBOSE (initDailyDilbert): enter methodSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: ERROR (initDailyDilbert): dailyDilbertLogger could not be initiatedSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: DEBUG (initDailyDilbert): dailyDilbertLocalizer initiatedSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: VERBOSE (loadDailyDilbertPreferences): enter methodSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: VERBOSE (loadDailyDilbertPreferences): leave methodSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: DEBUG (initDailyDilbert): dailyDilbertPreferences initiatedSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: INFO (initDailyDilbert): initDailyDilbert initiatedSun 28 Sep 2008 02:09:49 PM EDT: VERBOSE (initDailyDilbert): leave method ColorfulTabs Log: clrtabsInit ColorfulTabs Log: setCtPref name: ColorfulTabs version: 3.4 cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78 ColorfulTabs Log: initTabcontext true appending*** Failed to get string msg239 in bundle: chrome://febe/locale/febe.properties *** Failed to get string msg239 in bundle: chrome://febe/locale/ febe.properties *** Failed to get string msg239 in bundle: chrome://febe/locale/ febe.properties [nosquint] start init [nosquint] zooming all tabs; attach listeners = true [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] initialization took 59 ms [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 1 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120
cl: calcTabClr Tab readonly? 30 95 68 78[nosquint] Location change: http://www.vtluug.org/forum/ index.php#3 [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 7 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=80, full=115 [nosquint] EATING ZOOM REQUEST: 1 [nosquint] Location change: http://titan.lserv.com/mailman/admindb/ babblexia [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 6 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: https://www.freedomfirstcu.com/ [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 6 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=180, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: https://www.freedomfirstcu.com/ [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 23 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=180, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: http://titan.lserv.com/mailman/admin/ babblexia/members/list [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 6 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: http://www.hypernews.org/HyperNews/get/trails/ PATC.html [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=110, full=110 [nosquint] Location change: http://caracal.info/staff%20and%20% 20collaborators/staff%20and%20collaborators.htm# [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: http://www.myheritage.com/ [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=100 [nosquint] Location change: http://www.myheritage.com/ [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=100 [nosquint] Location change: http://speedtest.citizens.coop/ [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi? bug_status=NEW&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=ON_DEV&bug_status=QA_READY&bug_status=ON_QA&bug_status=FAILS_QA&bug_status=NEEDINFO_REPORTER&bug_status=RELEASE_PENDING&bug_status=POST&email1=karhunhammas % 40lserv.com&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1&emailcc1=1 [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi? bug_status=NEW&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=ON_DEV&bug_status=QA_READY&bug_status=ON_QA&bug_status=FAILS_QA&bug_status=NEEDINFO_REPORTER&bug_status=RELEASE_PENDING&bug_status=POST&email1=karhunhammas % 40lserv.com&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1&emailcc1=1 [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] Location change: http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php? pid=286696#p286696 [nosquint] aborting next ZoomManager zoom [nosquint] getSiteFromURI took 0 ms [nosquint] set zoom: text=100, full=120 [nosquint] sites save took: 0ms ===== ===== ===== =====
I can't even tell whether those are error messages or something else, much less which (if some are and some not). ....
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[....]
I'm getting confused as between machines, which is which; but Firefox has come up with another little nasty trick on at least two of them : when it does launch, it does so in offline mode -- and then complains because it can't refresh various sites.
Surely there has to be a setting somewhere for whether to launch in online or offline mode? I haven't seen it, much less changed it on purpose ...
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever tolaunch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[....] I'm getting confused as between machines, which is which; butFirefox has come up with another little nasty trick on at least two of them : when it does launch, it does so in offline mode -- and then complains because it can't refresh various sites.
Surely there has to be a setting somewhere for whether to launchin online or offline mode? I haven't seen it, much less changed it on purpose ...
Is there an option like File->Work Offline checked in the browser?
~af
On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 18:42 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[....]
I'm getting confused as between machines, which is which; but Firefox has come up with another little nasty trick on at least two of them : when it does launch, it does so in offline mode -- and then complains because it can't refresh various sites.
Are you running NetworkManager? If so, is NM managing your default interface? If it's running but thinks it's offline (even if it really isn't), Firefox may also think it's offline. This happens with Evolution as well, which is why I mention it as a possibility.
poc
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:16:14 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 18:42 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
[....]
I'm getting confused as between machines, which is which; but Firefox has come up with another little nasty trick on at least two of them : when it does launch, it does so in offline mode -- and then complains because it can't refresh various sites.
Are you running NetworkManager? If so, is NM managing your default interface? If it's running but thinks it's offline (even if it really isn't), Firefox may also think it's offline. This happens with Evolution as well, which is why I mention it as a possibility.
When I clicked the launcher for system-config-services and gave it root's password, NM came up marked Disabled. But the minute I highlighted it, it both enabled and started itself. So I re-disabled and re-stopped it.
Then I restarted Firefox -- id est, tried to, with its updater. It flashed something into the proper square on the workspace switcher; I clicked to go there, and found it trying to open Firefox. It failed immediately.
Beartooth wrote:
I'm getting confused as between machines, which is which; but Firefox has come up with another little nasty trick on at least two of them : when it does launch, it does so in offline mode -- and then complains because it can't refresh various sites.
Surely there has to be a setting somewhere for whether to launch in online or offline mode? I haven't seen it, much less changed it on purpose ...
In my case, at least, this is a bye-product of NM (Network Manager). If I shutdown running Firefox (I assume it would be the same with any other browser) then when I boot Fedora re-starts Firefox before NM has connected me to my wireless access point. So Firefox has to start in offline mode.
I wish there was at least an option to start NM before login, if it can see the last AP it connected to. In my case, and I suspect the vast majority of users, I use the same AP for weeks or even months on end.
I find the philosophy of NM bizarre in many respects. Admittedly it works, while the network service used to cause me at least endless trouble.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[...]
Until such time as I gird up my electronic loins for another lunge at the Cox Method, I've been cutting back and back -- and mostly having to launch Firefox from the CLI. After a while, I started removing whatever extension it seemed from the messages on the terminal to have been trying to deal with before any failure.
Then a couple times I went from machine to machine, trying to remove such an extension from all four -- and absolutely could not get it to launch on one. So I went looking, with nautilus, through my .mozilla folder. I didn't find any method to do the job I wanted to that way, but I did stumble on something else, which looked relevant and seems to've helped.
There are two things I've long made a practice of moving from machine to machine, either with scp or by sneakermail, whichever seemed easier at the time : FEBE, and my collection of desktop background pictures (aka wallpaper, I believe).
I had noticed a new problem with the pix, but hadn't thought to check for it with FEBE : a lot of files a/o folders would show up in nautilus with a padlock emblem. Lo and behold, the extension folders, and some others, were littered all over with those blasted padlocks.
I had also discovered that I could clear away the padlocks by right-clicking a parent folder, choosing Properties, going to the Permissions tab, and making changes.
(Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder, belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user, inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
Anyway, I applied the same method to the padlock-littered firefox folders in my user's .mozilla -- several times, from the firefox folder itself on down -- and the various installs of firefox on F8 and F9 did at least start launching better than before.
Question, while I'm at it : is there any simple way for us subtechnoids, who can't read code, to find out which extensions overlap? And how to decide, of a given pair with an overlap, which to keep?
Fwiw, I'm down to 25 or 26 extensions under F9 and 28 under F8 -- almost exactly the same 25 or 26, I believe -- still not counting ones grayed out, usually because they're Ffx3 only or Ffx2 only. Six or seven of those are defenses, and may be readily eliminable if/when I once gain competence with the Cox Method at http://www.melvilletheatre.com/articles/ squid-privoxy/index.html
Beartooth wrote, On 10/08/2008 12:49 PM:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever to launch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[...]
<SNIP>
There are two things I've long made a practice of moving from machine to machine, either with scp or by sneakermail, whichever seemed easier at the time : FEBE, and my collection of desktop background pictures (aka wallpaper, I believe).
I had noticed a new problem with the pix, but hadn't thought to check for it with FEBE : a lot of files a/o folders would show up in nautilus with a padlock emblem. Lo and behold, the extension folders, and some others, were littered all over with those blasted padlocks.
do the 'padlocks' indicate read only? [I never use those GUI file manglers on anything but MS.]
I had also discovered that I could clear away the padlocks by right-clicking a parent folder, choosing Properties, going to the Permissions tab, and making changes.
(Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder, belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user,
Assumption, you burned the file to the CD with out putting it into an archive file, i.e., you did not use tar or zip. When you copied the files you (or the GUI file mangler) told it to keep the permissions it had on the source media, and a CD is _ALWAYS_ read only if you are not using UDF(??), so the files at the destination are read only.
use tar or zip to create an archive of multiple files which then goes on the CD|DVD|USBdrive which you move around, it will give you less surprises. or learn to use `chmod u+w -R my_moved_dir`
inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
Anyway, I applied the same method to the padlock-littered firefox folders in my user's .mozilla -- several times, from the firefox folder itself on down -- and the various installs of firefox on F8 and F9 did at least start launching better than before.
<SNIP>
Todd Denniston wrote:
Beartooth wrote, On 10/08/2008 12:49 PM:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:03:44 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
I'm running Firefox under F8 and F9 on five different machines, and it's a pain on every one of them, albeit in slightly different ways; but the differences differ, too.
The first thing they have in common is that it takes forever tolaunch -- when it does launch. The second is that it mostly doesn't. It will try, and the little blue dots will circle for a while, and the window list on the panel will show a mark for it -- for a while. Sometimes one or another window will flash up and disappear, usually too fast even to identify.
[...]<SNIP> > There are two things I've long made a practice of moving from > machine to machine, either with scp or by sneakermail, whichever > seemed easier at the time : FEBE, and my collection of desktop > background pictures (aka wallpaper, I believe). > > I had noticed a new problem with the pix, but hadn't thought to > check for it with FEBE : a lot of files a/o folders would show up in > nautilus with a padlock emblem. Lo and behold, the extension folders, > and some others, were littered all over with those blasted padlocks. >
do the 'padlocks' indicate read only? [I never use those GUI file manglers on anything but MS.]
I had also discovered that I could clear away the padlocks byright-clicking a parent folder, choosing Properties, going to the Permissions tab, and making changes. (Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder, belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user,
Assumption, you burned the file to the CD with out putting it into an archive file, i.e., you did not use tar or zip. When you copied the files you (or the GUI file mangler) told it to keep the permissions it had on the source media, and a CD is _ALWAYS_ read only if you are not using UDF(??), so the files at the destination are read only.
use tar or zip to create an archive of multiple files which then goes on the CD|DVD|USBdrive which you move around, it will give you less surprises. or learn to use `chmod u+w -R my_moved_dir`
inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
Anyway, I applied the same method to the padlock-littered firefoxfolders in my user's .mozilla -- several times, from the firefox folder itself on down -- and the various installs of firefox on F8 and F9 did at least start launching better than before.
<SNIP>
I am running Fedora 9 / KDE 4.1 and I have no problems with Firefox on any of my computers. Maybe your OS is corrupted?
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Beartooth Beartooth@swva.net wrote:
(Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder,belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user, inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
Are you sure they belong to the same user? Must be same UID, not just same username. I've never experienced anything like this problem except when I accidentally took default UID in /etc/passwd.
Dave
Beartooth wrote:
[...]
I had noticed a new problem with the pix, but hadn't thought to check for it with FEBE : a lot of files a/o folders would show up in nautilus with a padlock emblem. Lo and behold, the extension folders, and some others, were littered all over with those blasted padlocks.
I had also discovered that I could clear away the padlocks by right-clicking a parent folder, choosing Properties, going to the Permissions tab, and making changes.
(Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder, belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user, inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
If you just burned the files to CD, then copied them, you wound up with READ ONLY copies. That is likely the cause of the problems you encountered.
Mike
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:21:53 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote: [...]
If you just burned the files to CD, then copied them, you wound up with READ ONLY copies. That is likely the cause of the problems you encountered.
That much has always been true -- in the sense that, if for instance I tried to drag a newly acquired pic from my user's home directory into the wrong pix file (i.e., the one on the CD instead of the one with the same name on the hard drive), it would balk.
Also, dragging one file (or many, or all) from the folder on the CD to one on the hard drive would copy, not move -- i.e., not remove from the CD -- even though the same action would move (not copy) the file if I did it between most hard drive folders. (The ones in the backgrounds tab of what "gnome-appearance-properties %F" opens, I believe, are an exception in that they aren't removed from the donating folder.)
That's all fine, and no problem. What's new is these padlocks -- the ones on the copies that dragging & dropping to the hard drive folder makes there.
I don't know exactly what the padlock means; it seems to vary. Sometimes, when I try to open one, I get an error message -- which may or may not have anything discernible to do with permissions -- and sometimes not.
In particular, Fedora will usually open a pic with a padlock -- at least in the sense that it will display it; but it often won't open some other file at all.
My uninformed rough wild intuitive guess is ownership: if the default app for a text file is gedit, and I have read-only permission, I would expect opening to fail; but I don't *know* that's what the padlock is, and I don't know how to find out, or even to test the hypothesis, except anecdotally.
Nor do I have any inkling why ownership should change. If I copy something -- text, pic, or executable -- successfully to the clipboard (I guess Gnome has a clipboard.), and then paste it into a file that I create, don't I own that file?
Is it even possible to set permissions in such a way that a user can copy a file, but not own the copy?? That sounds like some M$ trick ...
Color me bewildered.
On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 15:42 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
Also, dragging one file (or many, or all) from the folder on the CD to one on the hard drive would copy, not move -- i.e., not remove from the CD -- even though the same action would move (not copy) the file if I did it between most hard drive folders. (The ones in the backgrounds tab of what "gnome-appearance-properties %F" opens, I believe, are an exception in that they aren't removed from the donating folder.)
In general, dragging between folders on the same mount point, does a move. But dragging across different mount points (different partitions, different drives, etc.), does a copy. I've had mixed results in dragging and dropping across to something over NFS.
I don't know exactly what the padlock means; it seems to vary.
In general, you cannot make changes to that file, but you may be able read it, but sometimes you have no sort of access allowed to it (in short, "not yours"). Someone else owns it, and you don't have the appropriate permissions to modify it.
In particular, Fedora will usually open a pic with a padlock -- at least in the sense that it will display it; but it often won't open some other file at all.
Look at the permissions: rw-rwr-r-- (that's three sequences of readable, writeable, and executable, for owner's, group's, & others').
There's also SELinux, some files aren't allowed to be read by some processes. But that's more the sort of thing you encounter when trying to webserve some file that shouldn't be served.
Nor do I have any inkling why ownership should change. If I copy something -- text, pic, or executable -- successfully to the clipboard (I guess Gnome has a clipboard.), and then paste it into a file that I create, don't I own that file?
In general, yes. Ownership oughtn't to change, unless you take a file off your system. e.g. You put it onto a removable disc, then later on that disc is mounted and owned by someone else. Or you're logged in twice, as different users, moving files about between them. Or you're doing things over a network. With NFS, for instance, the files are owned by a user, using the user ID, it doesn't matter what the user names are. If you're user 500 on one box and 502 on another, you're a different user going by the numbers.
Is it even possible to set permissions in such a way that a user can copy a file, but not own the copy?? That sounds like some M$ trick ...
It's doable with Samba, at least. It can be set so that files written to one spot are owned by some particular user, no matter how they got there.
-
Aldo Foot -
Alex Makhlin -
Beartooth -
Chris G -
Craig White -
Dave Burns -
Frank Cox -
Kevin Martin -
Mike McCarty -
Mikkel -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Tim -
Timothy Murphy -
Todd Denniston