Using yum to update livna nvidia packages?

[D. D. Brierton]

I use the RPM packages of the NVIDIA drivers from rpm.livna.org. The
latest version of the drivers hit livna.testing today, and I'm trying to
install them, but yum won't let me. I can't quite get my head round what
is going on. This is what I have installed (excluding a couple of
irrelevant lines):

$ rpm -qa | grep "kernel\|nvidia" | sort

kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3

I'll edit the output of the next command to show you just the relevant
bits:

$ yum list available *nvidia*

kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing

Now it seems to me that I ought to able to do a straightforward update
of nvidia-glx and kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3. However, any of
these invocations of yum:

sudo yum update
sudo yum update nvidia-glx
sudo yum update kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
sudo yum update nvidia-glx kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3

fail with the same error:

Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
is not available.

I've attached the full messages from the above four commands to this
email in case it is of further help.

Am I invoking yum incorrectly, is yum doing something wrong, or are the
packages broken? I'm certain this has worked in the past ...

TIA, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Paul Howarth]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 19:09 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:
>  I use the RPM packages of the NVIDIA drivers from rpm.livna.org. The
>  latest version of the drivers hit livna.testing today, and I'm trying to
>  install them, but yum won't let me. I can't quite get my head round what
>  is going on. This is what I have installed (excluding a couple of
>  irrelevant lines):
>  
>  $ rpm -qa | grep "kernel\|nvidia" | sort
>  
>  kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  
>  I'll edit the output of the next command to show you just the relevant
>  bits:
>  
>  $ yum list available *nvidia*
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  
>  Now it seems to me that I ought to able to do a straightforward update
>  of nvidia-glx and kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3. However, any of
>  these invocations of yum:
>  
>  sudo yum update
>  sudo yum update nvidia-glx
>  sudo yum update kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  sudo yum update nvidia-glx kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  
>  fail with the same error:
>  
>  Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
>  Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
> is not available.
>  
>  I've attached the full messages from the above four commands to this
>  email in case it is of further help.
>  
>  Am I invoking yum incorrectly, is yum doing something wrong, or are the
>  packages broken? I'm certain this has worked in the past ... 
Does this work?

sudo yum install \
	kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 \
	nvidia-glx-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3

?

If not, try switching to runlevel 3 (telinit 3) and doing this:

# rpm -e kernel-module-nvidia
# yum install kernel-module-nvidia

Warning: I use neither livna packages nor nvidia graphics cards so if
this doesn't work your X may be horribly broken.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[D. D. Brierton]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:27 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  Does this work?
>  
>  sudo yum install \
>  	kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 \
>  	nvidia-glx-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 
It might, but I would like to work out why the update won't work. (It
may be that it isn't meant to and the above is what I'm supposed to be
doing, but then I'd like to determine that for sure.)

>  If not, try switching to runlevel 3 (telinit 3) and doing this:
>  
>  # rpm -e kernel-module-nvidia
>  # yum install kernel-module-nvidia 
I'm fairly certain that that will work, but of course it doesn't really
narrow down why the update doesn't work, as this indicates it should:

$ sudo yum list updates
[snip]
Updated Packages
kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing

If there is a bug in either the packages or yum I'd rather try to find
out what it is and report it rather than circumvent it. I'm not
*desperate* for the nvidia update :-)

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Paul Howarth]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:51 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:
>  On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:27 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  > Does this work?
>  > 
>  > sudo yum install \
>  > 	kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 \
>  > 	nvidia-glx-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3
>  
>  It might, but I would like to work out why the update won't work. (It
>  may be that it isn't meant to and the above is what I'm supposed to be
>  doing, but then I'd like to determine that for sure.)
>  
>  > If not, try switching to runlevel 3 (telinit 3) and doing this:
>  > 
>  > # rpm -e kernel-module-nvidia
>  > # yum install kernel-module-nvidia
>  
>  I'm fairly certain that that will work, but of course it doesn't really
>  narrow down why the update doesn't work, as this indicates it should:
>  
>  $ sudo yum list updates
>  [snip]
>  Updated Packages
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  
>  If there is a bug in either the packages or yum I'd rather try to find
>  out what it is and report it rather than circumvent it. I'm not
>  *desperate* for the nvidia update :-) 
What's happening is this:

You currently have kernel-module-
nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 and nvidia-
glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 installed. The kernel module, being a kernel
module, is only ever installed, not upgraded, by yum. So when a new
version comes out, the old one is still kept by yum. However, nvidia-glx
is not a kernel module and so when a new version of that comes out, it
gets upgraded, deleting the old version.

So, if you want to install the nice new kernel-module-
nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 package, yum will see that it
requires to update the nvidia-glx package to version 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3.
However, doing that would break the existing kernel-module-
nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 module, which requires
nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[D. D. Brierton]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:02 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:

>  What's happening is this: 
Paul, thanks for helping out. You may well be right, but let me just
give you my reasoning on the issue:

>  You currently have kernel-module-
>  nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 and nvidia-
>  glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 installed. The kernel module, being a kernel
>  module, is only ever installed, not upgraded, by yum. 
But yum lists it as an available update! The kernel modules have a name
which includes the kernel version they are a module for, and they have a
version number:

kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3

is 

version no	1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3

of

package		kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3

>  So when a new version comes out, the old one is still kept by yum.
I could be imagining this, but I am sure I have upgraded using yum in
the past. Now if a new kernel comes out then a new package called
kernel-module-nvidia-<kernel-name> will become available, and *that*
needs to be installed alongside any modules already installed for older
kernels. But,

kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3

is just a newer version (1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3) of an already installed
package:

kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3

>  However, nvidia-glx
>  is not a kernel module and so when a new version of that comes out, it
>  gets upgraded, deleting the old version. 
Yes.

>  So, if you want to install the nice new kernel-module-
>  nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 package, yum will see that it
>  requires to update the nvidia-glx package to version 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3. 
Yes.

>  However, doing that would break the existing kernel-module-
>  nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 module, which requires
>  nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3. 
No. It should just upgrade the existing kernel-module! (At least that is
what I think it should, and what I thought it used to do. I might be
wrong on the last point.)

Note, when a new kernel comes out and the nvidia kernel module is
rebuilt for it yum (correctly) does not list it as an update. You have
to check for its availability with "yum list available kernel-module-
nvidia-*", and then yum install it when it becomes available. That's
exactly right, and what you have described above. The kernel module
under discussion is a newer version of an existing kernel module, and
yum does indeed list it as an available update:

$ sudo yum list updates
[snip]
Updated Packages
kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing

Do you see how I have reasoned myself into suspecting that there is
either a packaging bug or a yum bug here? As I said, maybe I'm just
missing some fundamental thing here, but I'm not quite sure what ...

Thanks for the help.

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Jeff Vian]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:28 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:
>  On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:02 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  
>  > What's happening is this:
>  
>  Paul, thanks for helping out. You may well be right, but let me just
>  give you my reasoning on the issue:
>  
>  > You currently have kernel-module-
>  > nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 and nvidia-
>  > glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 installed. The kernel module, being a kernel
>  > module, is only ever installed, not upgraded, by yum.
>  
>  But yum lists it as an available update! The kernel modules have a name
>  which includes the kernel version they are a module for, and they have a
>  version number:
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  
>  is 
>  
>  version no	1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  
>  of
>  
>  package		kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  
>  > So when a new version comes out, the old one is still kept by yum.
>  
>  I could be imagining this, but I am sure I have upgraded using yum in
>  the past. Now if a new kernel comes out then a new package called
>  kernel-module-nvidia-<kernel-name> will become available, and *that*
>  needs to be installed alongside any modules already installed for older
>  kernels. But,
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3
>  
>  is just a newer version (1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3) of an already installed
>  package:
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  
>  > However, nvidia-glx
>  > is not a kernel module and so when a new version of that comes out, it
>  > gets upgraded, deleting the old version.
>  
>  Yes.
>  
>  > So, if you want to install the nice new kernel-module-
>  > nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3 package, yum will see that it
>  > requires to update the nvidia-glx package to version 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3.
>  
>  Yes.
>  
>  > However, doing that would break the existing kernel-module-
>  > nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 module, which requires
>  > nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3.
>  
>  No. It should just upgrade the existing kernel-module! (At least that is
>  what I think it should, and what I thought it used to do. I might be
>  wrong on the last point.)
>   
Update the kernel module,  NO.

Yum by default does an install on new kernels and modules.  That is so
it does not break the existing installation.

However, as Paul has stated, other packages are not installed but
upgraded. (The older package is removed)

I would be willing to guess that using Paul's procedure it will work or
you simply might try
     yum install kernel-module-nvidia.....  nvidia-glx.....  
with the matching 7167 version numbers and it should work.
You might need to use a force or nodeps option.

This might be a failed dependency configuration of the nvidia-glx
package and since that comes from livna the issue at that point would
need to be addressed to Axel there.

>  Note, when a new kernel comes out and the nvidia kernel module is
>  rebuilt for it yum (correctly) does not list it as an update. You have
>  to check for its availability with "yum list available kernel-module-
>  nvidia-*", and then yum install it when it becomes available. That's
>  exactly right, and what you have described above. The kernel module
>  under discussion is a newer version of an existing kernel module, and
>  yum does indeed list it as an available update:
>  
>  $ sudo yum list updates
>  [snip]
>  Updated Packages
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  
>  Do you see how I have reasoned myself into suspecting that there is
>  either a packaging bug or a yum bug here? As I said, maybe I'm just
>  missing some fundamental thing here, but I'm not quite sure what ...
>   
As I said above, it may be a packaging issue.  That would need to be
addressed to the packager directly,  Livna.

>  Thanks for the help.
>  
>  Best, Darren
>  
>  -- 
>  =====================================================================
>  D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
>         Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
>  =====================================================================
>

[D. D. Brierton]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:19 -0600, Jeff Vian wrote:
>  Yum by default does an install on new kernels and modules.  That is
> so
>  it does not break the existing installation.
>  
>  However, as Paul has stated, other packages are not installed but
>  upgraded. (The older package is removed)
>  
>  I would be willing to guess that using Paul's procedure it will work or
>  you simply might try
>       yum install kernel-module-nvidia.....  nvidia-glx.....  
>  with the matching 7167 version numbers and it should work.
>  You might need to use a force or nodeps option.
>  
>  This might be a failed dependency configuration of the nvidia-glx
>  package and since that comes from livna the issue at that point would
>  need to be addressed to Axel there.
>  
>  As I said above, it may be a packaging issue.  That would need to be
>  addressed to the packager directly,  Livna. 
Thanks, Jeff.

I've already added comments to this bug:

http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=385

You and Paul are bringing me round to the idea that "yum install" is
what is needed, but I think that is a failure in yum. Or, it could be a
packaging bug. But I don't think a user, especially one who is not as
experienced as I am (I've been using GNU/Linux for years, I'm a web
developer, etc.), should ever be confronted with this conundrum:

$ sudo yum list updates
[snip]
Updated Packages
kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing

$ sudo yum update
[snip]
Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
is not available.

Yum may be hard-coded to not update kernel modules, but that shouldn't
include a newer version of the *same* (i.e. built for exactly the same
kernel) module. Maybe the shortcoming is in rpm, maybe yum has no way of
telling what is a new version of an existing kernel module and what is a
kernel module for a totally different kernel. But whether the fault is
with yum or rpm it still needs an RFE. Now if I can just determine what
exactly is going on, I'm happy to do the honours. Yum RFE? RPM RFE? or
Livna packaging bug?

Suggestions welcome!

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Jeff Vian]

On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 03:33 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:
>  On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:19 -0600, Jeff Vian wrote:
>  > Yum by default does an install on new kernels and modules.  That is so
>  > it does not break the existing installation.
>  > 
>  > However, as Paul has stated, other packages are not installed but
>  > upgraded. (The older package is removed)
>  > 
>  > I would be willing to guess that using Paul's procedure it will work or
>  > you simply might try
>  >      yum install kernel-module-nvidia.....  nvidia-glx.....  
>  > with the matching 7167 version numbers and it should work.
>  > You might need to use a force or nodeps option.
>  > 
>  > This might be a failed dependency configuration of the nvidia-glx
>  > package and since that comes from livna the issue at that point would
>  > need to be addressed to Axel there.
>  > 
>  > As I said above, it may be a packaging issue.  That would need to be
>  > addressed to the packager directly,  Livna.
>  
>  Thanks, Jeff.
>  
>  I've already added comments to this bug:
>  
>  http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=385
>  
>  You and Paul are bringing me round to the idea that "yum install" is
>  what is needed, but I think that is a failure in yum. Or, it could be a
>  packaging bug. But I don't think a user, especially one who is not as
>  experienced as I am (I've been using GNU/Linux for years, I'm a web
>  developer, etc.), should ever be confronted with this conundrum:
>  
>  $ sudo yum list updates
>  [snip]
>  Updated Packages
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  
>  $ sudo yum update
>  [snip]
>  Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
>  Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
> is not available.
>   
I see the issue here.  You already have kernel-module-nvidia for the
6629 drive installed for the existing kernel 2.6.10-1.770.   So when you
install the new driver level for the same kernel it breaks the
dependency for the nvidia-glx.  You will need to do an uninstall of the
old driver and an install of the new driver since they are for the same
kernel level.

>  Yum may be hard-coded to not update kernel modules, but that
> shouldn't
>  include a newer version of the *same* (i.e. built for exactly the same
>  kernel) module. Maybe the shortcoming is in rpm, maybe yum has no way of
>  telling what is a new version of an existing kernel module and what is a
>  kernel module for a totally different kernel. But whether the fault is
>  with yum or rpm it still needs an RFE. Now if I can just determine what
>  exactly is going on, I'm happy to do the honours. Yum RFE? RPM RFE? or
>  Livna packaging bug?
>   
That would be 1) rpm related and 2) packager related.

However, since a driver needs to be exactly one driver for that piece of
hardware, then the rpm packager needs to do an uninstall of the existing
driver as he installs the new driver.

I would file that with Livna as a packaging issue.  It needs to remove
the old package, and everything else that depends on that package before
it installs the new one.

As I see it, the new kernel module is being installed, but that would
break the related nvidia-glx package, so it also should remove the glx
package as part of installing the new kernel module package.

It still seems a packager issue since they apparently did not handle
removing packages that depend on the module when upgrading the module.

>  Suggestions welcome!
>  
>  Best, Darren
>  
>  -- 
>  =====================================================================
>  D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
>         Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
>  =====================================================================
>

[D. D. Brierton]

On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 19:13 -0600, Jeff Vian wrote:

>  I see the issue here.  You already have kernel-module-nvidia for the
>  6629 drive installed for the existing kernel 2.6.10-1.770.   So when you
>  install the new driver level for the same kernel it breaks the
>  dependency for the nvidia-glx.  You will need to do an uninstall of the
>  old driver and an install of the new driver since they are for the same
>  kernel level. 
Yes, that's exactly it, and it seems that Peter (the maintainer) has
fixed the problem. I'm guessing it was a packaging bug. New packages
came out today and yum update worked just fine.

I think I'm more relieved to discover that my memory wasn't playing
tricks on me and that this is meant to work (as it just did) than I am
to have the new drivers!

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[D. D. Brierton]

On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 01:34 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:

>  Yes, that's exactly it 
Sigh. I can't believe I wrote that having managed to quote the wrong
section of your email. So in my previous email the bit where I say
"that's exactly is" is precisely not it. The problem was a packaging
bug.

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Paul Howarth]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 20:19 -0600, Jeff Vian wrote:
>  I would be willing to guess that using Paul's procedure it will
> work or
>  you simply might try
>       yum install kernel-module-nvidia.....  nvidia-glx.....  
>  with the matching 7167 version numbers and it should work.
>  You might need to use a force or nodeps option. 
Arrgh! Just say NO! to --force or --nodeps!!!!

>  This might be a failed dependency configuration of the nvidia-glx
>  package and since that comes from livna the issue at that point would
>  need to be addressed to Axel there. 
Axel might be your contact for ATrpms but not for livna...

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[Paul Howarth]

On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:28 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote: 
>  On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:02 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  
>  > What's happening is this:
>  
>  Paul, thanks for helping out. You may well be right, but let me just
>  give you my reasoning on the issue:
>  
>  > You currently have kernel-module-
>  > nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 and nvidia-
>  > glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 installed. The kernel module, being a kernel
>  > module, is only ever installed, not upgraded, by yum.
>  
>  But yum lists it as an available update! The kernel modules have a name
>  which includes the kernel version they are a module for, and they have a
>  version number:
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  
>  is 
>  
>  version no	1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>  
>  of
>  
>  package		kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 
Agreed.

>  > So when a new version comes out, the old one is still kept by
> yum.
>  
>  I could be imagining this, but I am sure I have upgraded using yum in
>  the past. Now if a new kernel comes out then a new package called
>  kernel-module-nvidia-<kernel-name> will become available, and *that*
>  needs to be installed alongside any modules already installed for older
>  kernels. But,
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3
>  
>  is just a newer version (1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3) of an already installed
>  package:
>  
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 
The key difference here is that what you have done before is install a
new package for a new kernel, based on the same underlying nvidia module
version. So you can have multiple kernel-module-nvidia packages
installed, one for each kernel, all depending on one matching nvidia-glx
package.

What's happening now is that there is a new version of the nvidia
module, which means that you need a new version of the kernel module for
each of your installed kernels and a new version of nvidia-glx. Since (I
think) there can only be one version of nvidia-glx installed at once,
this means that all the updates need to be done in a single rpm
transaction, and yum can't do that because it doesn't want to remove the
older version of the kernel modules. That's why it's behaving
differently this time.

>  > However, doing that would break the existing kernel-module-
>  > nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3 module, which requires
>  > nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3.
>  
>  No. It should just upgrade the existing kernel-module! (At least that is
>  what I think it should, and what I thought it used to do. I might be
>  wrong on the last point.) 
What it used to do was install a *new* kernel module for a new kernel.

>  Note, when a new kernel comes out and the nvidia kernel module is
>  rebuilt for it yum (correctly) does not list it as an update. You have
>  to check for its availability with "yum list available kernel-module-
>  nvidia-*", and then yum install it when it becomes available. That's
>  exactly right, and what you have described above. The kernel module
>  under discussion is a newer version of an existing kernel module, and
>  yum does indeed list it as an available update:
>  
>  $ sudo yum list updates
>  [snip]
>  Updated Packages
>  kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>  
>  Do you see how I have reasoned myself into suspecting that there is
>  either a packaging bug or a yum bug here? As I said, maybe I'm just
>  missing some fundamental thing here, but I'm not quite sure what ... 
Do you see it now?

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

[D. D. Brierton]

On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 08:50 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:

>  The key difference here is that what you have done before is install
> a
>  new package for a new kernel, based on the same underlying nvidia module
>  version. So you can have multiple kernel-module-nvidia packages
>  installed, one for each kernel, all depending on one matching nvidia-glx
>  package.
>  
>  What's happening now is that there is a new version of the nvidia
>  module, which means that you need a new version of the kernel module for
>  each of your installed kernels and a new version of nvidia-glx. Since (I
>  think) there can only be one version of nvidia-glx installed at once,
>  this means that all the updates need to be done in a single rpm
>  transaction, and yum can't do that because it doesn't want to remove the
>  older version of the kernel modules. That's why it's behaving
>  differently this time. 
My memory may well be failing me, but I seem to remember doing *both*
things in the past. That is: (a) using yum to *install* a new kernel
module when a new kernel comes out, and (b) using yum to *update* an
existing kernel module when a new version of the driver comes out.

However, my memory may be wrong, and perhaps yum has never been able to
do (b). It is possible that I have performed such updates with some
other package management tool, such as red-carpet, or possibly just done
the update by hand using rpm -U.

>  Do you see it now? 
Well what I think I am seeing is that yum can't do what I think it
should be able to do, and that I probably am misremembering being able
to do it in the past. I am not the only one who thinks this undesirable,
see:

https://devel.linux.duke.edu/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=394

My main concern here is about making this stuff more user friendly for
newbies. I know I can easily circumvent my yum problem and install the
new drivers in a jiffy. It's no problem for me. But I don't think we
should tell people that it's much better to use the nvidia and ati
drivers packaged by livna, because then they are part of your rpm
database and you can use yum to update your system just like you would
for any other update, and then have the user faced with this:

$ sudo yum list updates
[snip]
Updated Packages
kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing

$ sudo yum update
[snip]
Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
is not available.

which will just confuse them no end.

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[D. D. Brierton]

On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 08:50 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:

>  What's happening now is that there is a new version of the
> nvidia
>  module, which means that you need a new version of the kernel module for
>  each of your installed kernels and a new version of nvidia-glx. Since (I
>  think) there can only be one version of nvidia-glx installed at once,
>  this means that all the updates need to be done in a single rpm
>  transaction, and yum can't do that because it doesn't want to remove the
>  older version of the kernel modules. That's why it's behaving
>  differently this time. 
Paul, this is just an FYI and to make sure that there is a permanent
record on the list archive of the answer to this: it was a packaging
bug. Peter released new packages today and yum update worked fine. My
memory wasn't playing tricks on me!

Your analysis BTW was partly correct. Yum was trying to update the
existing driver (nvidia-glx) and the kernel module (kernel-module-
nvidia-<kernel>) in a single RPM transaction, but something was wrong
with the newer packages which prevented them from properly obsoleting
the older version of the driver. The new packages seem to fix this
problem.

But, importantly, you *can* update an existing driver and kernel module
with yum. I'm not suggesting you said you can't, but a casual reader of
this thread might get that impression.

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================

[Paul Howarth]

On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 01:42 +0000, D. D. Brierton wrote:
>  On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 08:50 +0000, Paul Howarth wrote:
>  
>  > What's happening now is that there is a new version of the nvidia
>  > module, which means that you need a new version of the kernel module for
>  > each of your installed kernels and a new version of nvidia-glx. Since (I
>  > think) there can only be one version of nvidia-glx installed at once,
>  > this means that all the updates need to be done in a single rpm
>  > transaction, and yum can't do that because it doesn't want to remove the
>  > older version of the kernel modules. That's why it's behaving
>  > differently this time.
>  
>  Paul, this is just an FYI and to make sure that there is a permanent
>  record on the list archive of the answer to this: it was a packaging
>  bug. Peter released new packages today and yum update worked fine. My
>  memory wasn't playing tricks on me!
>  
>  Your analysis BTW was partly correct. Yum was trying to update the
>  existing driver (nvidia-glx) and the kernel module (kernel-module-
>  nvidia-<kernel>) in a single RPM transaction, but something was wrong
>  with the newer packages which prevented them from properly obsoleting
>  the older version of the driver. The new packages seem to fix this
>  problem.
>  
>  But, importantly, you *can* update an existing driver and kernel module
>  with yum. I'm not suggesting you said you can't, but a casual reader of
>  this thread might get that impression. 
They key may be in what yum decides is a "kernel" package and thus
"install rather than upgrade". I don't know how exactly yum makes that
decision. Perhaps it's just for a specific list of packages hard-coded
into yum, or perhaps it's for any package starting with "kernel-"? I
don't know.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt;

Using yum to update livna nvidia packages? - solution

[Gerald Thompson]

D. D. Brierton wrote:

> I use the RPM packages of the NVIDIA drivers from rpm.livna.org. The
> latest version of the drivers hit livna.testing today, and I'm trying to
> install them, but yum won't let me. I can't quite get my head round what
> is going on. This is what I have installed (excluding a couple of
> irrelevant lines):
>
> $ rpm -qa | grep "kernel\|nvidia" | sort
>
> kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
> kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
> nvidia-glx-1.0.6629-0.lvn.6.3
>
> I'll edit the output of the next command to show you just the relevant
> bits:
>
> $ yum list available *nvidia*
>
> kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3.i6 1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
> nvidia-glx.i586                          1.0.7167-0.lvn.1.3     livna-testing
>
> Now it seems to me that I ought to able to do a straightforward update
> of nvidia-glx and kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3. However, any of
> these invocations of yum:
>
> sudo yum update
> sudo yum update nvidia-glx
> sudo yum update kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
> sudo yum update nvidia-glx kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>
> fail with the same error:
>
> Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies
> Error: Package kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 needs nvidia-glx = 0:1.0.6629, this
> is not available.
>
> I've attached the full messages from the above four commands to this
> email in case it is of further help.
>
> Am I invoking yum incorrectly, is yum doing something wrong, or are the
> packages broken? I'm certain this has worked in the past ...
>
> TIA, Darren
>  
Hi Darren;

I had the same issue; here is my solution
yum remove *nvidia*
- that removes all kernel modules and the nvidia-glx

yum install kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
- that installed the 1.0.7167-0 kernel-module and the nvidia-glx as a 
dependency
- of course you won't have the kernel-module-nvidia if you try to boot 
up in an old kernel

Sincerely,
Gerald

Using yum to update livna nvidia packages? - solution

[D. D. Brierton]

On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 03:19 -0700, Gerald Thompson wrote:

>  I had the same issue; here is my solution
>  yum remove *nvidia*
>  - that removes all kernel modules and the nvidia-glx
>  
>  yum install kernel-module-nvidia-2.6.10-1.770_FC3
>  - that installed the 1.0.7167-0 kernel-module and the nvidia-glx as a 
>  dependency
>  - of course you won't have the kernel-module-nvidia if you try to boot 
>  up in an old kernel 
Yep, I know that will work. I was trying to determine whether there was
a way of getting yum to do the update for us. This isn't the most user-
friendly way of presenting this stuff to newbies.

Best, Darren

-- 
=====================================================================
D. D. Brierton            darren(a)dzr-web.com          www.dzr-web.com
       Trying is the first step towards failure (Homer Simpson)
=====================================================================