[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
For a while now I have the following problem. After boot and login things look OK, however moving any window shows terrible artifacts.
Here is an example using xterm.
20200402_093920.jpg I open a small xterm Looks OK.
20200402_100028.jpg I do a reverse search: ^Rls -l At this point the whole line is filled with a repeated quote character. Doing other things will repeat a substring of what the text holds. Hitting 'end' key will show the full text followed by the quotes. Very difficult to work when parts of the text disappear or get mangled.
20200402_094034.jpg Moving on, I grab the window and move it a bit. The whole window is filled with a pattern, here is is just a color pattern.
If the window gets repainted it looks OK until I move it again. The only way I found so far to fix it is to restart X, so logout then login, not nice.
I am on fc30, fully up-to-date, using the onboard graphics of a 'Gigabyte Z390 UD' with a "Core i7-9700".
TIA
The following is OT of the subject line.
On 2020-04-03 09:16, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 08:51 +1100, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
It's better to post images on a public file sharing site rather than splitting your message into multiple posts.
I know. The list guidlines says to post files to fedorapeople.org but my login failed (but is now OK). I am not convinced that this is where people casually post content, it looks more like a contributors site, for developers/testers etc.
I thought I should try the pastebin link (mentioned in the guidlines) but it seems to be for text only (?).
Nevertheless, I reduced the images as much as is usable.
BTW, does anyone know how I ask to delete the original post (with everything in the one message) which "awaits moderator approval"?
poc
Regards,
On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 09:51 +1100, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
I thought I should try the pastebin link (mentioned in the guidlines) but it seems to be for text only (?).
Not that I'm aware of. There are also plenty of other pastebin equivalents. Some people use Google Drive, which works for anyone with a Gmail account.
poc
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:51:27 +1100 fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
No definitive answers, just some questions to point you to troubleshooting.
[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
For a while now I have the following problem. After boot and login things look OK, however moving any window shows terrible artifacts.
Desktop? Desktop manager? What if you try a different desktop, or desktop manager?
20200402_100028.jpg I do a reverse search: ^Rls -l At this point the whole line is filled with a repeated quote character. Doing other things will repeat a substring of what the text holds. Hitting 'end' key will show the full text followed by the quotes. Very difficult to work when parts of the text disappear or get mangled.
Sounds like the input is being altered. Is it possible the keyboard is having issues? Could you try unplugging it and re-plugging it? How about memory, power supply? Heat? Is there dust buildup?
What happens in virtual consoles? Say Ctrl-Alt-F2. Are there problems with text changes or color?
How about with a different terminal in X? Problem still there?
20200402_094034.jpg Moving on, I grab the window and move it a bit. The whole window is filled with a pattern, here is is just a color pattern.
Again, this seems like the data is being mis-read, and color characteristics are being altered unintentionally and randomly.
If the window gets repainted it looks OK until I move it again. The only way I found so far to fix it is to restart X, so logout then login, not nice.
Does it stay fixed after the restart of X? Hardware errors should recur, while software errors will be fixed by reloading.
Thanks Stan,
On 2020-04-03 12:54, stan via users wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:51:27 +1100 fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
No definitive answers, just some questions to point you to troubleshooting.
[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
For a while now I have the following problem. After boot and login things look OK, however moving any window shows terrible artifacts.
Desktop? Desktop manager? What if you try a different desktop, or desktop manager?
Plain XFCE with defaults. xfwm4 xfdesktop lxdm
20200402_100028.jpg I do a reverse search: ^Rls -l At this point the whole line is filled with a repeated quote character. Doing other things will repeat a substring of what the text holds. Hitting 'end' key will show the full text followed by the quotes. Very difficult to work when parts of the text disappear or get mangled.
Sounds like the input is being altered.
What input? I assume you mean keyboard and mouse.
Is it possible the keyboard is having issues? Could you try unplugging it and re-plugging it? How about memory, power supply? Heat? Is there dust buildup?
I will try to re-plug the keyboard. Locking the screen (then unlocking) does not help.
This is a new computer that is clean and did not show any other problem so far. The fact that restarting X by logout/login fixes the problem is a clue but I do not know what to try.
What happens in virtual consoles? Say Ctrl-Alt-F2. Are there problems with text changes or color?
No problem there. Switching VT (GUI->text->GUI) does not help.
How about with a different terminal in X? Problem still there?
20200402_094034.jpg Moving on, I grab the window and move it a bit. The whole window is filled with a pattern, here is is just a color pattern.
Again, this seems like the data is being mis-read, and color characteristics are being altered unintentionally and randomly.
Does not look like a colour thing. If I move the screen at an angle then I get diagonal bars across the window window (not the whole desktop) and no text visible.
If the window gets repainted it looks OK until I move it again. The only way I found so far to fix it is to restart X, so logout then login, not nice.
Does it stay fixed after the restart of X? Hardware errors should recur, while software errors will be fixed by reloading.
It always stays fixed. It starts (some time) on first login after a reboot.
Regards,
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:14:54 +1100 fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
Thanks Stan,
On 2020-04-03 12:54, stan via users wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:51:27 +1100 fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
No definitive answers, just some questions to point you to troubleshooting.
[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
For a while now I have the following problem. After boot and login things look OK, however moving any window shows terrible artifacts.
Desktop? Desktop manager? What if you try a different desktop, or desktop manager?
Plain XFCE with defaults. xfwm4 xfdesktop lxdm
20200402_100028.jpg I do a reverse search: ^Rls -l At this point the whole line is filled with a repeated quote character. Doing other things will repeat a substring of what the text holds. Hitting 'end' key will show the full text followed by the quotes. Very difficult to work when parts of the text disappear or get mangled.
Sounds like the input is being altered.
What input? I assume you mean keyboard and mouse.
Yeah, you type something, and somewhere along the line between the keyboard and the screen it is not processed correctly.
Is it possible the keyboard is having issues? Could you try unplugging it and re-plugging it? How about memory, power supply? Heat? Is there dust buildup?
I will try to re-plug the keyboard. Locking the screen (then unlocking) does not help.
This is a new computer that is clean and did not show any other problem so far. The fact that restarting X by logout/login fixes the problem is a clue but I do not know what to try.
That answers that.
What happens in virtual consoles? Say Ctrl-Alt-F2. Are there problems with text changes or color?
No problem there. Switching VT (GUI->text->GUI) does not help.
So, somehow connected with X.
How about with a different terminal in X? Problem still there?
20200402_094034.jpg Moving on, I grab the window and move it a bit. The whole window is filled with a pattern, here is is just a color pattern.
Again, this seems like the data is being mis-read, and color characteristics are being altered unintentionally and randomly.
Does not look like a colour thing. If I move the screen at an angle then I get diagonal bars across the window window (not the whole desktop) and no text visible.
If the window gets repainted it looks OK until I move it again. The only way I found so far to fix it is to restart X, so logout then login, not nice.
Does it stay fixed after the restart of X? Hardware errors should recur, while software errors will be fixed by reloading.
It always stays fixed. It starts (some time) on first login after a reboot.
It doesn't make any sense. Could there be some configuration initialization that is only occurring during the start of X, and then when you logout and log back in, it gets those needed parts and works correctly? If that's true, it might be that X doesn't handle your graphics device properly. Or could it be XFCE. I took a quick look at bugzilla for XFCE, and this issue has not been reported by anyone else. At least you have a workaround, if clumsy.
Maybe open a bugzilla against X, with the information from your posts here. Someone with expertise might recognize the issue immediately.
In case this matters - the system runs in 4k (3840x2160@30) mode which is on spec for the mobo.
On 3/4/20 1:31 pm, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
In case this matters - the system runs in 4k (3840x2160@30) mode which is on spec for the mobo.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure you are using X and not Wayland? I am running F31 in a vm under Windows 10, and when I use Gnome under Wayland with the screen in the equivalent of 3840x2160 I get double overlays in windows when expanded past a certain size, which was initially highlighted when I ran with windows maximized to 3840x2160, but this issue did not occur in Gnome running on X, and did not occur in KDE. Just one further question, are you able to increase the refresh rate and see if that makes a difference? I run my system in 3840x2160@60 mode when running X (Wayland scaled, X didn't) by adding a file into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d specifying the relevant modeline to run X in that mode.
regards, Steve
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 at 00:00, Stephen Morris samorris@netspace.net.au wrote:
On 3/4/20 1:31 pm, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
In case this matters - the system runs in 4k (3840x2160@30) mode which is on spec for the mobo.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure you are using X and not Wayland? I am running F31 in a vm under Windows 10, and when I use Gnome under Wayland with the screen in the equivalent of 3840x2160 I get double overlays in windows when expanded past a certain size, which was initially highlighted when I ran with windows maximized to 3840x2160, but this issue did not occur in Gnome running on X, and did not occur in KDE. Just one further question, are you able to increase the refresh rate and see if that makes a difference? I run my system in 3840x2160@60 mode when running X (Wayland scaled, X didn't) by adding a file into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d specifying the relevant modeline to run X in that mode.
regards, Steve
Just to move along the troubleshooting, it's lxdm with XFCE. no chance of wayland there. It's a good point though, that the next steps for this should be: Try awesomewm or gnome or another de/wm. Try lightdm, gdm, etc. Try wayland :D Try different resolutions / configurations as suggested above by Steve. After all that, we should be in a better position to troubleshoot further....
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 at 00:40, Anthony F McInerney afm404@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 at 00:00, Stephen Morris samorris@netspace.net.au wrote:
On 3/4/20 1:31 pm, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
In case this matters - the system runs in 4k (3840x2160@30) mode which is on spec for the mobo.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure you are using X and not Wayland? I am running F31 in a vm under Windows 10, and when I use Gnome under Wayland with the screen in the equivalent of 3840x2160 I get double overlays in windows when expanded past a certain size, which was initially highlighted when I ran with windows maximized to 3840x2160, but this issue did not occur in Gnome running on X, and did not occur in KDE. Just one further question, are you able to increase the refresh rate and see if that makes a difference? I run my system in 3840x2160@60 mode when running X (Wayland scaled, X didn't) by adding a file into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d specifying the relevant modeline to run X in that mode.
regards, Steve
Just to move along the troubleshooting, it's lxdm with XFCE. no chance of wayland there. It's a good point though, that the next steps for this should be: Try awesomewm or gnome or another de/wm. Try lightdm, gdm, etc. Try wayland :D Try different resolutions / configurations as suggested above by Steve. After all that, we should be in a better position to troubleshoot further....
OK, at that the top of the list should be Try as a new user with fresh config.
On 2020-04-05 09:59, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 3/4/20 1:31 pm, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
In case this matters - the system runs in 4k (3840x2160@30) mode which is on spec for the mobo.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure you are using X and not Wayland? I am running F31 in a vm under Windows 10, and when I use Gnome under Wayland with the screen in the equivalent of 3840x2160 I get double overlays in windows when expanded past a certain size, which was initially highlighted when I ran with windows maximized to 3840x2160, but this issue did not occur in Gnome running on X, and did not occur in KDE. Just one further question, are you able to increase the refresh rate and see if that makes a difference? I run my system in 3840x2160@60 mode when running X (Wayland scaled, X didn't) by adding a file into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d specifying the relevant modeline to run X in that mode.
regards, Steve
$ ps aux|grep X root 3108 4.5 1.3 1387896 430160 tty1 Ssl+ Apr04 67:48 /usr/libexec/Xorg -background none :0 vt01 -nolisten tcp -novtswitch -auth /var/run/lxdm/lxdm-:0.auth $ ls -l /var/log/Xorg.0.log* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 257217 Apr 5 07:57 /var/log/Xorg.0.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 53570 Apr 4 09:32 /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
[the images will be posted as replies due to size limits]
For a while now I have the following problem. After boot and login things look OK, however moving any window shows terrible artifacts.
Here is an example using xterm.
20200402_093920.jpg I open a small xterm Looks OK.
20200402_100028.jpg I do a reverse search: ^Rls -l At this point the whole line is filled with a repeated quote character. Doing other things will repeat a substring of what the text holds. Hitting 'end' key will show the full text followed by the quotes. Very difficult to work when parts of the text disappear or get mangled.
20200402_094034.jpg Moving on, I grab the window and move it a bit. The whole window is filled with a pattern, here is is just a color pattern.
If the window gets repainted it looks OK until I move it again. The only way I found so far to fix it is to restart X, so logout then login, not nice.
I am on fc30, fully up-to-date, using the onboard graphics of a 'Gigabyte Z390 UD' with a "Core i7-9700".
TIA
Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 boot with i915.alpha_support=1
kernel parameter.
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> wrote:
[trimmed]
Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 boot with i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter.
fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au 5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:
fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
[trimmed]
Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 boot with i915.alpha_support=1
kernel parameter.
fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au 5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
-- Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au) _______________________________________________
OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature.
On 2020-04-04 02:57, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> wrote:
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>>> wrote: [trimmed] > Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 boot with i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter. fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au> 5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>) _______________________________________________OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature.
CPU temps are monitored/logged and there is no indication of a problem.
Next time this happens I will save Xorg.0.log and compare it to a "good" one.
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 22:32, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 2020-04-04 02:57, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:
fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto: fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
[trimmed] > Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 bootwith i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter.
fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au>5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
-- Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>) _______________________________________________OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature.
CPU temps are monitored/logged and there is no indication of a problem.
Next time this happens I will save Xorg.0.log and compare it to a "good" one.
Ah!. Another thought - Have you turned off the XFCE Compositor? Settings Window Manager Tweaks > Compositing > Untick
On 2020-04-04 10:31, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 22:32, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> wrote:
On 2020-04-04 02:57, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > > > On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>>> wrote: > > On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>>>> wrote: > > [trimmed] > > > Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 boot with i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter. > > fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: > Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au> <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au> 5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > -- > Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>>) > _______________________________________________ > > OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature. CPU temps are monitored/logged and there is no indication of a problem. Next time this happens I will save Xorg.0.log and compare it to a "good" one.Ah!. Another thought - Have you turned off the XFCE Compositor? Settings > Window Manager Tweaks > Compositing > Untick
Did not visit those settings for a long while. Yes, the compositor is not enabled.
On Sat, 2020-04-04 at 00:31 +0100, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 22:32, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 2020-04-04 02:57, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:
fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto: fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
[trimmed] > Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 bootwith i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter.
fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au>5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
-- Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>) _______________________________________________OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature.
CPU temps are monitored/logged and there is no indication of a problem.
Next time this happens I will save Xorg.0.log and compare it to a "good" one.
Ah!. Another thought - Have you turned off the XFCE Compositor? Settings Window Manager Tweaks > Compositing > Untick
Please fix your quoting style. You appear to be quoting your own comment, making it very easy to miss.
poc
On 4/4/20 8:02 pm, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2020-04-04 at 00:31 +0100, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 22:32, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 2020-04-04 02:57, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 04:30, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:
fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
On 2020-04-03 13:50, Anthony F McInerney wrote: > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 22:52, <fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au> <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au mailto: fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>> wrote:
[trimmed] > Not sure what kernel. If still pre 5.2 bootwith i915.alpha_support=1 kernel parameter.
fc30 is on a decently recent kernel: Linux e7.eyal.emu.id.au <http://e7.eyal.emu.id.au>5.5.10-100.fc30.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 18 14:34:46 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
-- Eyal at Home (fedora@eyal.emu.id.au <mailto:fedora@eyal.emu.id.au>) _______________________________________________OK , another shot in the dark. CPU Temperature.
CPU temps are monitored/logged and there is no indication of a problem.
Next time this happens I will save Xorg.0.log and compare it to a "good" one.
Ah!. Another thought - Have you turned off the XFCE Compositor? Settings Window Manager Tweaks > Compositing > Untick
Please fix your quoting style. You appear to be quoting your own comment, making it very easy to miss.
Hi patrick, just one question, what mail package are you using? I'm using Thunderbird Daily and as displayed to me his comments display unquoted in exactly the same way as your comments are unquoted.
regards, Steve
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Sun, 2020-04-05 at 10:03 +1000, Stephen Morris wrote:
Hi patrick, just one question, what mail package are you using? I'm using Thunderbird Daily and as displayed to me his comments display unquoted in exactly the same way as your comments are unquoted.
I could see he was using Evolution, it's in the headers: User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.4 (3.34.4-1.fc31)
I'm using Evolution 3.28.5 (3.28.5-5.el7)
There are a number of things that fool mail clients into joining replies in with the quotes. One of the main ones is when just start typing replies in the middle of quotes. Another is when people start replying immediately below a quote without adding a blank line between them.
Thunderbird is particularly hideous at quoting, especially with plain text. You see this smattering of variable amounts of blank spaces between the quote prefix indicators (either > or | symbols). HTML mail ought to be able to do quoting better, simply because there are tags actually marking where a quote starts and ends, yet HTML mailers still do a diabolical job at quoting.
Whenever I reply to an email, it's almost guaranteed that I will have to hand-edit every line to turn a jumbled mess into something that's easy to read.
For a very long time, about the only way to do neat quoting is to jam all the quote symbols to the left, with no blank spaces before any of them, and one blank space to the right of the last one. Do anything else, and it becomes an eyesore. I wish mail programmers would get their act together, they've had decades to learn what doesn't work.
Good example:
oldest quote of a prior message, with several lines of text where each line is neatly wrapped AFTER the damn quote indicators, not in the middle of them
next oldest quote replying to the previous messages
then the next
and the last
Shitty quoting example:
> old quote| > oldish quote
}| a reply, maybe the latest, but you can't tell
|| oldish quote
I've seen very few mail (or news clients) that could do decent quoting (or even typing of your own message), none on Linux. There was Thor on the Amiga, eventually YAM got better. The Bat! and Forte Agent on Windows. PINE could do it quite well, but it was a text-only system that was a nightmare to use in other ways.
-
Anthony F McInerney -
fedora＠eyal.emu.id.au -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
stan -
Stephen Morris -
Tim