I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
Until recently, I also made minor but important use of Konqueror and K3B; I've noticed, when sometimes I've added them to a straight Mate install, that I seem to get a whopping share of the rest of KDE with them. I do not use anything else from KDE as far as I know; but I know I don't know much.
BQ1 (Big Question 1) If I were to remove all of KDE, how would I do it? Find KDE in dnfdragora and follow my nose?? I had thought I could command "dnf remove kde" or "dnf remove KDE," and then go through the resulting list with a fine-tooth comb; but neither of those commands does anything, claiming instead not to have found anything.
BQ2 How much, at an educated guess, would I remove? Or is there a way actually to ascertain how much? Would it be worth it?
On 05/06/2019 00:52, Beartooth wrote:
I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
Until recently, I also made minor but important use of Konqueror and K3B; I've noticed, when sometimes I've added them to a straight Mate install, that I seem to get a whopping share of the rest of KDE with them. I do not use anything else from KDE as far as I know; but I know I don't know much.
BQ1 (Big Question 1) If I were to remove all of KDE, how would I do it? Find KDE in dnfdragora and follow my nose?? I had thought I could command "dnf remove kde" or "dnf remove KDE," and then go through the resulting list with a fine-tooth comb; but neither of those commands does anything, claiming instead not to have found anything.
BQ2 How much, at an educated guess, would I remove? Or is there a way actually to ascertain how much? Would it be worth it?
What are you looking to gain from this exercise?
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:52:18 -0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@comcast.net wrote:
BQ1 (Big Question 1) If I were to remove all of KDE, how would I do it? Find KDE in dnfdragora and follow my nose?? I had thought I could command "dnf remove kde" or "dnf remove KDE," and then go through the resulting list with a fine-tooth comb; but neither of those commands does anything, claiming instead not to have found anything.
You could try removing Konqueror and K3B and seeing what they want to take with them. Make sure you don't have --assumeyes set, so that you can just say n when it asks for confirmation to avoid doing anything. e.g. dnf autoremove Konqueror
BQ2 How much, at an educated guess, would I remove? Or is there a way actually to ascertain how much? Would it be worth it?
Unless disk space is an issue, why do you care? Is it the updates? Is it space for backups? Personally, I keep all the desktops installed so that if I want to use something from them, or try one of them, I don't have to wait. You don't have to go that far, but if you want to use an application that depends on a specific desktop, you have to have those dependency parts installed. If the package brought them in, they are needed because they were explicitly coded into the spec file.
Translation: You're chasing wild geese here.
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 02:06:07 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/06/2019 00:52, Beartooth wrote:
I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
[....]
What are you looking to gain from this exercise?
Space (which I probably don't really need); celerity maybe; slightly better security maybe (with fewer idle apps for some nogoodnik to attack through); a little more play with my nice toys, which might teach me something. You see why I wonder if it's worth it.
On Wed, 2019-06-05 at 17:11 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 02:06:07 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/06/2019 00:52, Beartooth wrote:
I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
[....]
What are you looking to gain from this exercise?
Space (which I probably don't really need); celerity maybe; slightly better security maybe (with fewer idle apps for some nogoodnik to attack through); a little more play with my nice toys, which might teach me something. You see why I wonder if it's worth it.
None of KDE is going to be running unless you actually run it, either via one of its apps, or by using the Plasma desktop. The only thing you're going to save is space.
poc
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:11:29 -0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@comcast.net wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 02:06:07 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/06/2019 00:52, Beartooth wrote:
I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
[....]
What are you looking to gain from this exercise?
Space (which I probably don't really need); celerity maybe; slightly better security maybe (with fewer idle apps for some nogoodnik to attack through); a little more play with my nice toys, which might teach me something. You see why I wonder if it's worth it.
Take what I say with a grain of salt, I too am a mostly clueless Mate on Fedora user.
Don't know if you are a user of the Mate GUI for Dnf found in System > Administration > dnfdragora > Information > History. This provides a nice graphical view of the dnf history sorted by date/time/name of the updated and installed programs. If you install one program at a time, it is really easy to see what dependencies were pulled in for which program.
For example: It shows that on 30 May I installed VLC which pulled in 50 other packages with it. One of them being the kde-filesystem.
2019-06-05 19:16 GMT+02:00, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com:
On Wed, 2019-06-05 at 17:11 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 02:06:07 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/06/2019 00:52, Beartooth wrote:
I run Mate under F30. I assume Mate calls a lot of Gnome code (most or all of what Gnome3 didn't change). So I never worry about any new app bringing Gnome stuff with it.
[....]
What are you looking to gain from this exercise?
Space (which I probably don't really need); celerity maybe; slightly better security maybe (with fewer idle apps for some nogoodnik to attack through); a little more play with my nice toys, which might teach me something. You see why I wonder if it's worth it.
None of KDE is going to be running unless you actually run it, either via one of its apps, or by using the Plasma desktop. The only thing you're going to save is space.
I think that Beartooth has a point.
1. What you don't have, doesn't cause problems later on (a package can, even if it's never used, for example, by causing various dependency problems). And can you guarantee that there isn't some daemon/service running because of an unused but installed package?
2. HDDs may be cheap, but SSDs are not. Bandwidth isn't either, especially when one's on the road. And on an SSD, every upgrade of a package means extra wear on the SSD. It may not be significant for one extra package, but for the hundreds of packages that KDE has, it may just be (although I hope it's not).
3. Even though HDDs are cheap, adjusting the size of the root partition is not if you have bare ext4 partitions. (I've just been bitten by this during an upgrade to f30. Thank God, no, the developers, for the --downloaddir option to dnf.)
Each of these problems may have a separate solution. But isn't it much easier not to have them in the first place?
Just my 2 cents.
Andras
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 10:30:45 -0800, Fred wrote:
Don't know if you are a user of the Mate GUI for Dnf found in System > Administration > dnfdragora > Information > History. This provides a nice graphical view of the dnf history sorted by date/time/name of the updated and installed programs. If you install one program at a time, it is really easy to see what dependencies were pulled in for which program.
For example: It shows that on 30 May I installed VLC which pulled in 50 other packages with it. One of them being the kde-filesystem.
New to me, and very interesting: many thanks!
I don't think I dare do everything one app at a time. I generally rely on 'dnf upgrade' to tell me what's new, and then just assent to it, unless I'm deliberately adding or removing something (lots of that, and easy to forget, after any new install).
If dnf looks like adding or removing something against my usage, I c&p the app name(s) to a second mate terminal tab logged in as root, with 'dnf install' or 'dnf remove'.
Then when dnf upgrade has finished, I go to the other tab, hit enter, and look *sharp* at what it proposes to do. Adding an app back, bless the developers!, usually brings back dependencies with it, but mostly fewer than I removed before. Deleting something crufty-looking is most dangerous, and may require a second round, or more likely a deep breath and a shrug.
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 16:48:01 -0000 (UTC) Beartooth Beartooth@comcast.net wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 10:30:45 -0800, Fred wrote:
Don't know if you are a user of the Mate GUI for Dnf found in System > Administration > dnfdragora > Information > History. This provides a nice graphical view of the dnf history sorted by date/time/name of the updated and installed programs. If you install one program at a time, it is really easy to see what dependencies were pulled in for which program.
For example: It shows that on 30 May I installed VLC which pulled in 50 other packages with it. One of them being the kde-filesystem.
New to me, and very interesting: many thanks!
I don't think I dare do everything one app at a time. I generally rely on 'dnf upgrade' to tell me what's new, and then just assent to it, unless I'm deliberately adding or removing something (lots of that, and easy to forget, after any new install).
Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. By installing one program at a time, I meant only the programs that you personally install over and above what, for example the install ISO for Fedora 30 Mate desktop includes. I use gnuchash, calibre, and vlc which aren't included in the live iso. So, rather than including those 3 programs in one dnf install command, I do dnf install gnucash, then when that finishes, do dnf install calibre, etc. That makes individual log entries that list only what dnf pulled in for gnucash.
This might be helpful removing programs you've installed. Removing anything installed by the original iso ...you live dangerously.
If dnf looks like adding or removing something against my usage, I c&p the app name(s) to a second mate terminal tab logged in as root, with 'dnf install' or 'dnf remove'.
Then when dnf upgrade has finished, I go to the other tab, hit enter, and look *sharp* at what it proposes to do. Adding an app back, bless the developers!, usually brings back dependencies with it, but mostly fewer than I removed before. Deleting something crufty-looking is most dangerous, and may require a second round, or more likely a deep breath and a shrug.
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Andras Simon -
Beartooth -
Ed Greshko -
Fred -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
stan