What's your fave--Gnome or KDE

[Temlakos]

In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece 
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.

I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than 
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements 
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop 
to beat?

Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as 
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you 
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App 
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've 
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem 
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.

I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?

Temlakos

[Fred Williams]

On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos  wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
> I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
> that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
> to beat?
>
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
> been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
>
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
> Temlakos
>
> users mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in comparison
to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox session. But if KDE
is good for you, have a look at the respin.

[Temlakos]

On 03/06/2010 10:52 AM, Fred Williams wrote:
> On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <[e-mail] 
> > wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
> piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
> I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive
> improvements
> that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the
> desktop
> to beat?
>
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop
> Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
> been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
>
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
>
> Temlakos
> --
> users mailing list
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
>
> There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in 
> comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox 
> session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.

Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?

Temlakos

[Fred Williams]

On 6 March 2010 15:56, Temlakos  wrote:
> On 03/06/2010 10:52 AM, Fred Williams wrote:
>
> On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos  wrote:
> > In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> > of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
> >
> > I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> > this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
> > that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
> > to beat?
> >
> > Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> > a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> > need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> > Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
> > been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> > loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
> >
> > I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
> > Temlakos
> >
> > users mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
> There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in comparison
> to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox session. But if KDE
> is good for you, have a look at the respin.
>
> Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
>
> Temlakos
>
> --
> users mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
> There are a number of GNOME panel applets that I've yet to find any way to

use in KDE, the Kicker menu, even in classic mode, I find difficult to
navigate, even running Gnomenu with the K Menu theme isn't easy for me, I
find the KDE Panel heavy and clunky in comparison to the relatively lighter
and easier to use gnome-panel, the combination of KWin and Compiz is too
slow for me, and I find the same holds true for most of KDE. There are some
few KDE apps that are useful, but they work just the same in a Gnome
session.
For Gnome, I use one panel, with applets that, as said, I've yet to find KDE
versions of - or a means to use the Gnome ones in a KDE panel, and with only
a few customizations, I can do everything I want from it without making it
all that heavier.
Even Compiz enabled Gnome, even with Emerald, I've found that Gnome is far
ligher and more usable than KWin alone.
The Gnome menu is simpler, and easier to customize via alacarte than KDE.

This isn't meant to be a rant against KDE - there have been times when I've
found it more useful than Gnome. But, I think it could benefit from learning
from Gnome and even Xfce. My opinion. I can't deny KDE has it's good points,
I just don't find any of them myself.

[Tom Horsley]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:56:48 -0500
Temlakos wrote:
> Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?

Seeing actual data on your screen because it is obscured by all
the fanatical eye candy? :-).

Actually, I can't stand either KDE or GNOME, they both take
up too much space and attention with things they (God knows
why) think are important rather than things I think are
important. Thankfully, since this is X11 instead of Windows,
I can chose not to use either and instead go with a very
spartan desktop and fvwm configured exactly the way I want
it running from my own ~/.xsession file.

[n2xssvv.g02gfr12930]

On 03/06/2010 04:17 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:56:48 -0500
> Temlakos wrote:
> > Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
>
> Seeing actual data on your screen because it is obscured by all
> the fanatical eye candy? :-).
>
> Actually, I can't stand either KDE or GNOME, they both take
> up too much space and attention with things they (God knows
> why) think are important rather than things I think are
> important. Thankfully, since this is X11 instead of Windows,
> I can chose not to use either and instead go with a very
> spartan desktop and fvwm configured exactly the way I want
> it running from my own ~/.xsession file.

Is surprised you use a GUI  at all, as for the clutter I can manage KDE
in an uncluttered way. Whatever, to each their own. I know it took me a
while to learn KDE 4, and for some bugs to be ironed out, but it suits
me now fine.

JB

[Steve Searle]

Around 04:38pm on Saturday, March 06, 2010 (UK time), n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 scrawled:
> Is surprised you use a GUI  at all, as for the clutter I can manage KDE

Someone choosing to not use KDE is not an attack on you. Choice is a
good thing.

Steve

[n2xssvv.g02gfr12930]

On 03/06/2010 04:44 PM, Steve Searle wrote:
> Around 04:38pm on Saturday, March 06, 2010 (UK time), n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 scrawled:
> > Is surprised you use a GUI  at all, as for the clutter I can manage KDE
>
> Someone choosing to not use KDE is not an attack on you. Choice is a
> good thing.
>
> Steve

Does not feel attacked,but surely a GUI could be considered to be
clutter and a resource hog. In any case, as I said, to each their
own,and in my case I can manage KDE without the clutter. Although the
default KDE config does cause clutter which will deter some folks. If I
need to boot to Bash command line I can, and sometimes that is most
definitely required. Apologies if anyone finds this in any way
threatening, that is most definitely not my intention.

JB

[n2xssvv.g02gfr12930]

On 03/06/2010 03:52 PM, Fred Williams wrote:
> On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <[e-mail]
> > wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
> I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
> that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
> to beat?
>
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
> been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
>
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
>
> Temlakos
> --
> users mailing list
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
>
> There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in
> comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox
> session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.

I've been a KDE fan for a long time and I even use knetworkmanager for
my network connection management. Once you get it setup, it really does
simplify networking. As for KDE being restrictive, I just reverted to
folder view for the desktop, and job done.

JB

[Fred Williams]

On 6 March 2010 16:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 <[e-mail]
> wrote:
> On 03/06/2010 03:52 PM, Fred Williams wrote:
> > On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <[e-mail]
> > > wrote:
> > In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
>
> piece
> > of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
> >
> > I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> > this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive
>
> improvements
> > that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the
>
> desktop
> > to beat?
> >
> > Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder
>
> as
> > a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever
>
> you
> > need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> > Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that
>
> I've
> > been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> > loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
> >
> > I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
> >
> > Temlakos
> > --
> > users mailing list
> > [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> >
> >
> > There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in
> > comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox
> > session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.
>
> I've been a KDE fan for a long time and I even use knetworkmanager for
> my network connection management. Once you get it setup, it really does
> simplify networking. As for KDE being restrictive, I just reverted to
> folder view for the desktop, and job done.
>
> JB
>
> --
> users mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

I find even then it's still inconvenient. using the Wicd network manager
ensures compatibility with any WM I choose, and in all honesty, I find an
Openbox session with the tint2 panel far more useable than any KDE session
has ever been.

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Saturday 06 March 2010 03:50:04 pm Temlakos wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.

KDE is not missing in Fedora (and never has been). It's just that Gnome is the 
default DE when you install Fedora and don't customize anything.
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome.

Sure. Since version 4, KDE has been completely redesigned and rewritten. It is 
now a much more powerful DE than KDE3 or Gnome. Just ask a Gnome user to 
configure the screen so that he can see icons from two different directories 
simultaneously on the desktop. ;-) Gnome just can't do that. And that is just 
scratching the surface. :-)

But Gnome developers are going to engage soon into a similar rewrite and 
redesign of Gnome, with a goal of providing equivalent functionality. When KDE 
devs did that and Fedora pushed the KDE 4.0, a lot of people got extremely 
disappointed (lack of previous features, plenty of bugs, learning curve...), 
and switched to Gnome. However, it is just a matter of time until this history 
repeats for Gnome users, and many will switch back to KDE --- which has by 
version 4.4 become a very stable, bug-free and feature-full DE, like no other 
before. :-)
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?

You are not the only one. There are plenty of us using and loving KDE.

But the bottomline is --- it's a matter of habit. Everyone likes what they are 
most used to. My beginner's days with Linux started with RedHat 6.2 back in 
spring of 2000, and my experience of Gnome in those days can be described only 
as a "miserable piece of s*** full of bugs", while KDE was a sensible and 
usable DE (for those times). I stuck with KDE, and since Fedora times I 
occasionally take a look at Gnome whenever a new Fedora release comes out. I 
have never got used to the idea of a "simplistic" Mac-like user experience 
that Gnome is targeting, and I stuck with KDE even in 4.0 days, since I knew 
it was not going to look so poor for too long. ;-)

So a lot of people will tell you "Gnome does this", "KDE doesn't do that", 
etc, but essentially it's all a matter of taste and developed habits.

Best, :-)
Marko

[Temlakos]

On 03/06/2010 12:48 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Saturday 06 March 2010 03:50:04 pm Temlakos wrote:
> > In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> > of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
> KDE is not missing in Fedora (and never has been). It's just that Gnome is the
> default DE when you install Fedora and don't customize anything.

I didn't express that properly. Of course KDE has always been available 
in every iteration of Fedora. What I don't see are any reviews that use 
KDE with Fedora. All I see are reviews that use Fedora with Gnome. Don't 
any reviewers ever try out KDE?
> > Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> > a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> > need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> > Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome.
>
> Sure. Since version 4, KDE has been completely redesigned and rewritten. It is
> now a much more powerful DE than KDE3 or Gnome. Just ask a Gnome user to
> configure the screen so that he can see icons from two different directories
> simultaneously on the desktop. ;-) Gnome just can't do that. And that is just
> scratching the surface. :-)

So that explains it--KDE is better than ever, and certainly better than 
I found it, way back in the Fedora Core 1 days. I just tried out KDE 
instead of Gnome as an experiment. Better yet, I tried first with Gnome, 
and then with KDE, and that's when I made my discovery.
> But Gnome developers are going to engage soon into a similar rewrite and
> redesign of Gnome, with a goal of providing equivalent functionality. When KDE
> devs did that and Fedora pushed the KDE 4.0, a lot of people got extremely
> disappointed (lack of previous features, plenty of bugs, learning curve...),
> and switched to Gnome. However, it is just a matter of time until this history
> repeats for Gnome users, and many will switch back to KDE --- which has by
> version 4.4 become a very stable, bug-free and feature-full DE, like no other
> before. :-)

Which illustrates, by the way, one key reason why Windows is "WinDoze": 
they lock you in to one desktop only. Whereas with Linux you have a 
choice--in fact, as I understand it, lots of choices. And the developers 
of those choices are always competing. Competition is wonderful--brings 
out the best.
> > I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
>
> You are not the only one. There are plenty of us using and loving KDE.
>
> But the bottomline is --- it's a matter of habit. Everyone likes what they are
> most used to. My beginner's days with Linux started with RedHat 6.2 back in
> spring of 2000, and my experience of Gnome in those days can be described only
> as a "miserable piece of s*** full of bugs", while KDE was a sensible and
> usable DE (for those times). I stuck with KDE, and since Fedora times I
> occasionally take a look at Gnome whenever a new Fedora release comes out. I
> have never got used to the idea of a "simplistic" Mac-like user experience
> that Gnome is targeting, and I stuck with KDE even in 4.0 days, since I knew
> it was not going to look so poor for too long. ;-)
>
> So a lot of people will tell you "Gnome does this", "KDE doesn't do that",
> etc, but essentially it's all a matter of taste and developed habits.
>
> Best, :-)
> Marko

So Gnome is trying to emulate Mac, while KDE is trying to emulate--what? 
Windows? I suspect so.

Actually, the thing that really made the deal with KDE was the Switch 
User feature. I had never been able to switch users in Gnome as 
seamlessly as I can do in KDE. And I've got four different user accounts 
that I have to manage, and it's a whole lot simpler if I can log into 
them all and switch among them as easily as switching desktops. (Of 
course, getting new hardware with 3 GB of RAM and a dual-core Pentium 
doesn't hurt.)

Temlakos

[Steven I Usdansky]

My fave today is LXDE. In the past, it's been GNOME, XFCE, jwm/rox, fluxbox/rox, blackbox/rox, and probably a few others I've long forgotten. Tomorrow, next week, or a month from now it may well be something else. For what it's worth, it's never been Enlightenment, and it's never been KDE. Not sure why, but it's really nice to have a choice.

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 10:50 -0500, Temlakos wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece 
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.

It's not missing, it's just not the default. IMHO most reviewers out
there are so clueless that they don't seem to realize this. There is no
problem at all installing and using KDE with Fedora.
> I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than 
> this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements 
> that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop 
> to beat?
>
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as 
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you 
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App 
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've 
> been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem 
> loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
>
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?

I assume that's a rhetorical question rather than an attempt at an
opinion poll (or flamewar as we call it). If you like KDE (as I do) then
maybe you should subscribe to the Fedora KDE list

poc