I have some questions regarding the info on this page: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html
I'll just try asking the questions in random order...
It says the "Update Lifetime" will be "2-3 months after next release". Combine that with a "Release Interval" of 4-6 months, and that would suggest an "Update Lifetime" of 6-9 months, not the 12 currently listed on: https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/
This looks like another change in errata policy. (In addition to the info on the chart, I'm assuming the current policy for "Red Hat Linux" does not automatically apply to "Fedora Core" based on the name change alone, if nothing else.) Is this a correct interpretation of the situation?
Also, the chart lists "Developer Community" as "Testers". To the best of my knowledge, Red Hat QA was involved with previous Red Hat Linux releases. Are they out of the loop now, or do they somehow fall under the "Developer Community" umbrella?
Finally, since the "Update Source" will be the "Developer Community", will Red Hat still list the errata on the https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/ site for Fedora Core, as it does now for Red Hat Linux?
Thanks in advance.
-Barry K. Nathan barryn@pobox.com
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 10:59, Barry K. Nathan wrote:
I have some questions regarding the info on this page: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html
I'll just try asking the questions in random order...
It says the "Update Lifetime" will be "2-3 months after next release". Combine that with a "Release Interval" of 4-6 months, and that would suggest an "Update Lifetime" of 6-9 months, not the 12 currently listed on: https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/
This looks like another change in errata policy. (In addition to the info on the chart, I'm assuming the current policy for "Red Hat Linux" does not automatically apply to "Fedora Core" based on the name change alone, if nothing else.) Is this a correct interpretation of the situation?
Also, the chart lists "Developer Community" as "Testers". To the best of my knowledge, Red Hat QA was involved with previous Red Hat Linux releases. Are they out of the loop now, or do they somehow fall under the "Developer Community" umbrella?
Finally, since the "Update Source" will be the "Developer Community", will Red Hat still list the errata on the https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/ site for Fedora Core, as it does now for Red Hat Linux?May i add another question, how does the above affect the RHCE/RHCT certification programs?
Walid
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 02:06, Walid Shaari wrote:
May i add another question, how does the above affect the RHCE/RHCT certification programs?
It does not. RHCE/RHCT are based on the enterprise RHL. This was announce when RHL9 came out.
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Barry K. Nathan wrote:
I have some questions regarding the info on this page: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html
I'll just try asking the questions in random order...
It says the "Update Lifetime" will be "2-3 months after next release". Combine that with a "Release Interval" of 4-6 months, and that would suggest an "Update Lifetime" of 6-9 months, not the 12 currently listed on: https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/
Well if Fedora was a Red Hat product it would be covered by that policy. It isnt a Red Hat product, it is a community driven project.
Also, the chart lists "Developer Community" as "Testers". To the best of my knowledge, Red Hat QA was involved with previous Red Hat Linux releases. Are they out of the loop now, or do they somehow fall under the "Developer Community" umbrella?
No idea.. probably they will be focusing on Enterprise stuff and will fall under Developer Community when they have time.
Finally, since the "Update Source" will be the "Developer Community", will Red Hat still list the errata on the https://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/ site for Fedora Core, as it does now for Red Hat Linux?
Doubtful beyond maybe a links saying:
Looking for Fedora updates? Please goto http://xyz.abc.org/errata
Dear Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Anderson" bill@noreboots.com
It does not. RHCE/RHCT are based on the enterprise RHL. This was announce when RHL9 came out.
I suspect that your basic point is correct, that the RHCE/RHCT will soon be based on RHEL 3.
However, according to the current Red Hat training page, http://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/ , these programs are "Updated for building skills on Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Red Hat Linux 9!"
Thanks, Mike
I was reading where Fedora plans a new version every 4-6 months. I am curious as to why the need for so many releases.
Is this just a by-product of being Open Source or by design?
My wild-ass guess is that quality would be much better improved if there were one final release per year and 12 months support.
For example, if the release date were July 1, there would be a team working on next year's product, and a team working on the current product to keep it debugged. Those wanting to be on the cutting edge would use and support the beta products, and those who prefer reliability would stick with the final release product.
This would give everyone a choice of 1 or two years support depending on which product they chose, not to mention a larger window in which to plan to upgrade.
I admit that I am ignorant in this area so tell me what I am missing here.
Buck
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 07:28, MJang wrote:
Dear Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Anderson" bill@noreboots.com
It does not. RHCE/RHCT are based on the enterprise RHL. This was announce when RHL9 came out.
I suspect that your basic point is correct, that the RHCE/RHCT will soon be based on RHEL 3.
However, according to the current Red Hat training page, http://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/ , these programs are "Updated for building skills on Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Red Hat Linux 9!"
Which was written when RH9 was released.
Also on that same page: """ The validity period for all RHCEs and RHCTs is now officially pegged to the release of the Enterprise product commercially available at the time certification was earned, and certification shall be current until after one (1) major release of the Enterprise product. All RHCEs earned on Red Hat Linux 7.3 or prior will be considered current until the release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS/ES/WS 4. All RHCEs and RHCTs earned on Red Hat Linux 8.0 or 9 will remain current until the release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5. Validity and current status of an RHCE certificate will continue to be verified at Certification Central. """
Fedora is not Red Hat Linux, so Fedora does not affect RHCE/RHCT.
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 09:31, Buck wrote:
I was reading where Fedora plans a new version every 4-6 months. I am curious as to why the need for so many releases.
Is this just a by-product of being Open Source or by design?
My wild-ass guess is that quality would be much better improved if there were one final release per year and 12 months support.
Which is the purpose of getting RHEL - longer lifetime, more stability. Fedora is meant to be cutting edge and fast pace. If that doesn't suit you (it won't suit a lot of people, for sure) then its time to buy up or switch. :(
For example, if the release date were July 1, there would be a team working on next year's product, and a team working on the current product to keep it debugged. Those wanting to be on the cutting edge would use and support the beta products, and those who prefer reliability would stick with the final release product.
There's always the possibility that *if* the community agrees to support security errata and the like, it will be done. Certainly, if a group with the time and dedication gets together and does the work, I don't (personally) see why Redhat would stop them.
The plan posted I believe is simply what Redhat themselves plan on supporting, giving that they only know how much effort *they* can and will put in to it.
This would give everyone a choice of 1 or two years support depending on which product they chose, not to mention a larger window in which to plan to upgrade.
There is no product to choose - just Fedora. If you want *real* Redhat products, the lifetime is drastically different than the Fedora lifetime.
I admit that I am ignorant in this area so tell me what I am missing here.
Buck
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Dear Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Anderson" bill@noreboots.com
Also on that same page: """ one (1) major release of the Enterprise product. All RHCEs earned on Red Hat Linux 7.3 or prior will be considered current until the release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS/ES/WS 4. All RHCEs and RHCTs earned on Red Hat Linux 8.0 or 9 will remain current until the release of Red Hat
Exactly my point. Until now, the RHCE and RHCT exams were based on (i.e. "earned on Red Hat Linux 8.0 or 9") Red Hat Linux. Their validity (but not full content) was pegged to RHEL.
While I think you're going to be right, I think it remains to be seen whether the RHCE/RHCT exams will be based on only RHEL.
I certainly hope it happens that way.
Thanks, Mike
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I was clear on a couple of things though. While I understand that we are talking about RH and Fedora, I may be referring to the Linux community at large. Of course it may only be Red Hat pushing for the fast releases.
The choice of products I was referring to here were the current release and the previous release (1 year or 2 year supported products). It would probably be better worded: choice of two releases, currently in the works, or released.
Buck
-----Original Message-----
This would give everyone a choice of 1 or two years support depending on which product they chose, not to mention a larger window in which to plan to upgrade.
There is no product to choose - just Fedora. If you want *real* Redhat products, the lifetime is drastically different than the Fedora lifetime.
My experience with support is that many open source projects were getting very tired of having to support old versions of 0.01 xyz app that shipped with Red Hat 7.3 because lots of people use it and hadnt updated to RHL9 or didnt want to put a non distro RPM of the latest and greatest.
The OS groups would tell the user to upgrade or else, and the user would tell RH or complain on lists that RH is soooo behind the curve.
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 08:17, Buck wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I was clear on a couple of things though. While I understand that we are talking about RH and Fedora, I may be referring to the Linux community at large. Of course it may only be Red Hat pushing for the fast releases.
The choice of products I was referring to here were the current release and the previous release (1 year or 2 year supported products). It would probably be better worded: choice of two releases, currently in the works, or released.
Buck
-----Original Message-----
This would give everyone a choice of 1 or two years support depending on which product they chose, not to mention a larger window in which to plan to upgrade.
There is no product to choose - just Fedora. If you want *real* Redhat products, the lifetime is drastically different than the Fedora lifetime.
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Bear with this newbie a moment... If I read you correctly, the open source projects you speak of are additional software and users want the newest software on the older operating systems.
That being the case, the user would need to either get the older program to go with the older os or get the newer os to use the newer program.
I still see that being more of a problem with faster os updates. Slow down the os updates and the other projects will be compatible longer.
Just from my point of view as a newbie to this arena.
Buck
-----Original Message----- From: fedora-list-admin@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-list-admin@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Smoogen Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 12:49 PM To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: RE: New Releases
My experience with support is that many open source projects were getting very tired of having to support old versions of 0.01 xyz app that shipped with Red Hat 7.3 because lots of people use it and hadnt updated to RHL9 or didnt want to put a non distro RPM of the latest and greatest.
The OS groups would tell the user to upgrade or else, and the user would tell RH or complain on lists that RH is soooo behind the curve.
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 08:17, Buck wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I was clear on a couple of things
though. While I understand that we are talking about RH and Fedora, I may be referring to the Linux community at large. Of course it may only be Red Hat pushing for the fast releases.
The choice of products I was referring to here were the current release and the previous release (1 year or 2 year supported products). It would probably be better worded: choice of two releases, currently in the works, or released.
Buck
-----Original Message-----
This would give everyone a choice of 1 or two years support depending on which product they chose, not to mention a larger window in which
to plan to upgrade.
There is no product to choose - just Fedora. If you want *real* Redhat products, the lifetime is drastically different than the Fedora
lifetime.
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 11:08, Buck wrote:
Bear with this newbie a moment... If I read you correctly, the open source projects you speak of are additional software and users want the newest software on the older operating systems.
That being the case, the user would need to either get the older program to go with the older os or get the newer os to use the newer program.
I still see that being more of a problem with faster os updates. Slow down the os updates and the other projects will be compatible longer.
Hasnt happened yet in 7+ years of watching Red Hat. Open Source projects can move at either dead, slow, or metero fast rate. Those projects that move the quickest usually are the most wanted by users also.. so what you end up with is a lot of bad emails and webpages about how sloooow Red Hat is and how they are being a Microsoft by holding back Open Source development with their slow updates and striving for backwards compatibility.
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:08:15 -0400, you wrote:
Bear with this newbie a moment... If I read you correctly, the open source projects you speak of are additional software and users want the newest software on the older operating systems.
They are projects like Python, whose community got very upset when Red Hat stuck with Python 1.5 for the entire Red Hat 7.* series (.0 -> .3, a 2 year period) for binary compatibility but caused many problems for the Python community who had moved on to Python 2.0 (and maybe even 2.2) by the time Red Hat 8 came out.
I still see that being more of a problem with faster os updates. Slow down the os updates and the other projects will be compatible longer.
This would be useful if all the projects released new versions at the same time. But they don't, which means somebody will always be out of sync with a long distribution release cycle. A shorter cycle minimizes this as it means you are typically at worst 6 months away from being included in the next release.
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 17:25, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:08:15 -0400, you wrote:
Bear with this newbie a moment... If I read you correctly, the open source projects you speak of are additional software and users want the newest software on the older operating systems.
They are projects like Python, whose community got very upset when Red Hat stuck with Python 1.5 for the entire Red Hat 7.* series (.0 -> .3,
I think very upset is an understatement. The number of Red Hat are nazi's, Microsoft, trying to fork python for their own interests, etc was quite a bit.
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 07:50, MJang wrote:
Dear Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Anderson" bill@noreboots.com
Also on that same page: """ one (1) major release of the Enterprise product. All RHCEs earned on Red Hat Linux 7.3 or prior will be considered current until the release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS/ES/WS 4. All RHCEs and RHCTs earned on Red Hat Linux 8.0 or 9 will remain current until the release of Red Hat
Exactly my point. Until now, the RHCE and RHCT exams were based on (i.e. "earned on Red Hat Linux 8.0 or 9") Red Hat Linux. Their validity (but not full content) was pegged to RHEL.
While I think you're going to be right, I think it remains to be seen whether the RHCE/RHCT exams will be based on only RHEL.
I certainly hope it happens that way.
It can't be any other way. Think about it. W/the merging of RHLProject and Fedora, there is RHEL and Fedora. The RH being Red Hat, RHCE and RCHT *must* be against RHEL, otherwise they'd be FCE and FCT.
:^)
AS2/2.1 was/is RHL7.x series. They are essentially identical, with some addons.
-
Barry K. Nathan -
Bill Anderson -
Buck -
Gerald Henriksen -
Mike Jang -
Sean Middleditch -
Stephen Smoogen -
Walid Shaari