Screen Freeze

[Per Anton Rønning]

Hi all.
A very annoying feature has suddenly caught up with me,  now when 
running FC5.
This has been a plague earlier with other distros, and after installing 
FC5 it was "clean" for quite some time, until suddenly and with no 
apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing and no 
mouseclicks are accepted.  Programs are still running, I have a back 
door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a 
SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If I am 
runnig emacs it seems to save the latest input in a #<filename.cc># 
file, so nothing is lost. But it is annoying hainv to restart the 
computer so frequently.
Has anyone else experienced this? Has anyone (in case) found a cure, or 
is this something I have to live with?
Could it be hardware related? Or driver related?
I would be very thankful to have some comments on this.

PA

[Andy Green]

Per-Anton Rønning wrote:

>  apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing and
> no 
>  mouseclicks are accepted.  Programs are still running, I have a back 
>  door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a 
>  SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If I am  
If you are in fact running Xorg, can it be some problem with X or 
between the video card and its bus somehow?  In this case, next time it 
freezes, try to ssh in and only

killall -9 Xorg

and see if the (hopefully provoked) subsequent respawning of Xorg gets 
you back working again without a reboot.

-Andy

[Lonni J Friedman]

What kind of graphics card are you using, and which X driver?

On 11/7/06, Andy Green <andy(a)warmcat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>
>  > apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing and no
>  > mouseclicks are accepted.  Programs are still running, I have a back
>  > door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a
>  > SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If I am
>
>  If you are in fact running Xorg, can it be some problem with X or
>  between the video card and its bus somehow?  In this case, next time it
>  freezes, try to ssh in and only
>
>  killall -9 Xorg
>
>  and see if the (hopefully provoked) subsequent respawning of Xorg gets
>  you back working again without a reboot. 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman                                    netllama(a)gmail.com
LlamaLand                       http://netllama.linux-sxs.org

[Per Anton Rønning]

My card is NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 - re. X driver I am not sure. Have 
never tried to find out, where should I look?
PA
Lonni J Friedman wrote:
>  What kind of graphics card are you using, and which X driver?
>
>  On 11/7/06, Andy Green <andy(a)warmcat.com&gt; wrote:
> > Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
> >
> > > apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing 
> > and no
> > > mouseclicks are accepted.  Programs are still running, I have a back
> > > door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a
> > > SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If 
> > I am
> >
> > If you are in fact running Xorg, can it be some problem with X or
> > between the video card and its bus somehow?  In this case, next time it
> > freezes, try to ssh in and only
> >
> > killall -9 Xorg
> >
> > and see if the (hopefully provoked) subsequent respawning of Xorg gets
> > you back working again without a reboot.
>

[Andy Green]

Per-Anton Rønning wrote:

>  My card is NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 - re. X driver I am not sure. Have 
>  never tried to find out, where should I look? 
You can try this:

cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf | sed -n '/Section.*\"Device/,/EndSection/ 
s/.*/&/p' | grep Driver

or run

system-config-display

and click on the Hardware tab, then the Configure... button for "Video 
Card".

-Andy

[Lonni J Friedman]

On 11/7/06, Andy Green <andy(a)warmcat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>
>  > My card is NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 - re. X driver I am not sure. Have
>  > never tried to find out, where should I look?
>
>  You can try this:
>
>  cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf | sed -n '/Section.*\"Device/,/EndSection/
>  s/.*/&/p' | grep Driver
>
>  or run
>
>  system-config-display
>
>  and click on the Hardware tab, then the Configure... button for "Video
>  Card". 
If you don't know, then odds are you're using the 'nv' X driver.
Regardless you should try whichever one you're not currently using.


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman                                    netllama(a)gmail.com
LlamaLand                       http://netllama.linux-sxs.org

[Per Anton Rønning]

Hi Andy,
system-config-display showed this default setting:
nv  nVidia Riva 128 RIVA TNT GeForce nForce and QUADRO Cards, so Lonni 
seems to be right  ("nv").
There are several other  alternatives in the list, but which one should 
one try?

I am not alone having this problem obviously (ref. Nigel - FC2), and I 
have also had it with SuSE, Mandrake and Mandriva. But never with good 
old Red Hat 7.2!

PA

Andy Green wrote:
>  Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>
> > My card is NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 - re. X driver I am not sure. Have 
> > never tried to find out, where should I look?
>
>  You can try this:
>
>  cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf | sed -n '/Section.*\"Device/,/EndSection/ 
>  s/.*/&/p' | grep Driver
>
>  or run
>
>  system-config-display
>
>  and click on the Hardware tab, then the Configure... button for "Video 
>  Card".
>
>  -Andy
>

[Andy Green]

Per-Anton Rønning wrote:

>  I am not alone having this problem obviously (ref. Nigel - FC2), and
> I 
>  have also had it with SuSE, Mandrake and Mandriva. But never with good 
>  old Red Hat 7.2! 
Well a lot of code changed since RH7.2 :-)  Maybe the nVidia binary can 
solve your problem, but I would be tempted to try to see if I could find 
the direction it is coming from first, because otherwise one is just 
swapping things out hoping for a magic result without even a little 
understanding of what the rules of the game are.  That would mean next 
time you must ssh in, do

less /var/log/Xorg.0.log

and hit the End key to see what the last kind of happenings are in the 
log.  Also

dmesg

and again look for any funnies.  Then

killall Xorg

and see if your box comes back okay without needing a reboot.

Also if there is a BIOS update for your motherboard possible, maybe that 
is worth a go.

A lot of folks report having luck with the livna packaged version of the 
nVidia binary if you do have to go that route.

-Andy

[Per Anton Rønning]

Hi again Andy,
Yes, killall -9 Xorg worked fine, I got back the KDE login screen, no 
need to reboot. That is a definite improvement, so thanks! Then I won't 
need to spend time waiting for the complete bootup procedure.

I have also looked at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and dmesg. Since I have no 
formal training as to what to look for here, I cannot identify any 
funnies either.  Where can I find litterature to study what is really 
going on behind the curtain? My knowledge of Linux is not that detailed, 
I know (some of) what I need to know, but I also realize that I have to 
know more. Could you point me in any direction as to what to look for in 
the Xorg log, and the dmesg log? What would funnies look like?
I dmesg the last (several) messages are "audit" something, what it means 
I do not know.
The very last entry reads:

audit(1162987192.127:65): avc:  granted  { execmem } for  pid=2958 
comm="thunderbird-bin" scontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0 
tcontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0 tclass=process
But if this is an ordinary entry or if it reports some  trouble I cannot 
say.


The last 4 lines in Xorg.0.log are:
(**) Keyboard0: CustomKeycodes disabled
(II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Keyboard0" (type: KEYBOARD)
(II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Mouse0" (type: MOUSE)
(II) Mouse0: ps2EnableDataReporting: succeeded

I cannot conclude anything from this.

I was working with Open Office spreadsheet when the freeze occured, but 
I see no mention of OO in the logs.
But I think this is arbitrary, the freeze seems not to be triggered by 
any particular application. It can happen in emacs, Firefox, 
Thunderbird, Open Office, you name it.

PA

Andy Green wrote:
>  Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>
> > I am not alone having this problem obviously (ref. Nigel - FC2), and 
> > I have also had it with SuSE, Mandrake and Mandriva. But never with 
> > good old Red Hat 7.2!
>
>  Well a lot of code changed since RH7.2 :-)  Maybe the nVidia binary 
>  can solve your problem, but I would be tempted to try to see if I 
>  could find the direction it is coming from first, because otherwise 
>  one is just swapping things out hoping for a magic result without even 
>  a little understanding of what the rules of the game are.  That would 
>  mean next time you must ssh in, do
>
>  less /var/log/Xorg.0.log
>
>  and hit the End key to see what the last kind of happenings are in the 
>  log.  Also
>
>  dmesg
>
>  and again look for any funnies.  Then
>
>  killall Xorg
>
>  and see if your box comes back okay without needing a reboot.
>
>  Also if there is a BIOS update for your motherboard possible, maybe 
>  that is worth a go.
>
>  A lot of folks report having luck with the livna packaged version of 
>  the nVidia binary if you do have to go that route.
>
>  -Andy
>

[Paul Howarth]

Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>  Hi again Andy,
>  Yes, killall -9 Xorg worked fine, I got back the KDE login screen, no 
>  need to reboot. That is a definite improvement, so thanks! Then I won't 
>  need to spend time waiting for the complete bootup procedure.
>  
>  I have also looked at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and dmesg. Since I have no 
>  formal training as to what to look for here, I cannot identify any 
>  funnies either.  Where can I find litterature to study what is really 
>  going on behind the curtain? My knowledge of Linux is not that detailed, 
>  I know (some of) what I need to know, but I also realize that I have to 
>  know more. Could you point me in any direction as to what to look for in 
>  the Xorg log, and the dmesg log? What would funnies look like?
>  I dmesg the last (several) messages are "audit" something, what it means 
>  I do not know.
>  The very last entry reads:
>  
>  audit(1162987192.127:65): avc:  granted  { execmem } for  pid=2958 
>  comm="thunderbird-bin" scontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0 
>  tcontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0 tclass=process
>  But if this is an ordinary entry or if it reports some  trouble I cannot 
>  say. 
This was a common log entry in early FC5 systems. It's harmless but can 
tend to fill the log files. However, it indicates that you have not 
installed updates (specifically for selinux, probably not for anything 
else either) as the logging of these events was turned off in one of the 
updates.

It's conceivable that installing updated X packages might fix the 
problem you've been writing about.

Paul,

[Lonni J Friedman]

On 11/8/06, Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt; wrote:
>  Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>  > Hi again Andy,
>  > Yes, killall -9 Xorg worked fine, I got back the KDE login screen, no
>  > need to reboot. That is a definite improvement, so thanks! Then I won't
>  > need to spend time waiting for the complete bootup procedure.
>  >
>  > I have also looked at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and dmesg. Since I have no
>  > formal training as to what to look for here, I cannot identify any
>  > funnies either.  Where can I find litterature to study what is really
>  > going on behind the curtain? My knowledge of Linux is not that detailed,
>  > I know (some of) what I need to know, but I also realize that I have to
>  > know more. Could you point me in any direction as to what to look for in
>  > the Xorg log, and the dmesg log? What would funnies look like?
>  > I dmesg the last (several) messages are "audit" something, what it means
>  > I do not know.
>  > The very last entry reads:
>  >
>  > audit(1162987192.127:65): avc:  granted  { execmem } for  pid=2958
>  > comm="thunderbird-bin" scontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0
>  > tcontext=user_u:system_r:unconfined_t:s0 tclass=process
>  > But if this is an ordinary entry or if it reports some  trouble I cannot
>  > say.
>
>  This was a common log entry in early FC5 systems. It's harmless but can
>  tend to fill the log files. However, it indicates that you have not
>  installed updates (specifically for selinux, probably not for anything
>  else either) as the logging of these events was turned off in one of the
>  updates.
>
>  It's conceivable that installing updated X packages might fix the
>  problem you've been writing about. 
All of this sounds like an X or nv driver bug.  Its doubtful that
you're going to see a change of behavior without updating to a more
recent version of FC, and/or using the nvidia X driver.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman                                    netllama(a)gmail.com
LlamaLand                       http://netllama.linux-sxs.org

[Andy Green]

Lonni J Friedman wrote:

> > It's conceivable that installing updated X packages might fix
> the
> > problem you've been writing about. 
>  you're going to see a change of behavior without updating to a
> more
>  recent version of FC, and/or using the nvidia X driver. 
I failed to notice this was on FC5.  FC6 had a newer version of Xorg, 
updating the box to FC6 may well improve matters.  Or, you can try the 
binary drivers from nVidia, but it seems a shame to do that when you 
don't need the 3D features.

-Andy

[Tony Nelson]

At 7:27 PM +0100 11/7/06, Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
> Hi all.
> A very annoying feature has suddenly caught up with me,  now when
> running FC5.
> This has been a plague earlier with other distros, and after installing
> FC5 it was "clean" for quite some time, until suddenly and with no
> apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing and no
> mouseclicks are accepted. 
It sounds like X is stuck.  Does Ctl-Alt-F1 (or F2) give you a Virtual
Terminal?

> Programs are still running, I have a back
> door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a
> SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If I am
> runnig emacs it seems to save the latest input in a #<filename.cc>#
> file, so nothing is lost. But it is annoying hainv to restart the
> computer so frequently.
> Has anyone else experienced this? Has anyone (in case) found a cure, or
> is this something I have to live with?
> Could it be hardware related? Or driver related?
> I would be very thankful to have some comments on this. 
-- 
____________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'    The Great Writ     <mailto:[e-mail]>
      '      is no more.             <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>

[Per Anton Rønning]

Tony Nelson wrote:
>  It sounds like X is stuck.  Does Ctl-Alt-F1 (or F2) give you a Virtual
>  Terminal?
>     
Sorry, no. All keystrokes are blocked out.

PA

[Nigel Henry]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 23:42, Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>  Tony Nelson wrote:
>  > It sounds like X is stuck.  Does Ctl-Alt-F1 (or F2) give you a Virtual
>  > Terminal?
>
>  Sorry, no. All keystrokes are blocked out.
>
>  PA 
I've had the same thing on FC2 today, and on odd occasions before. No mouse, 
and no keyboard. Today with nothing running but Gkrellm, and Kget fetching 
the elive iso, I noticed a time difference between the 2 machines. Looking 
closer the one machine had completely locked up. Kget was presumably still 
downloading, but everything on the desktop was locked up. Another hard reset. 
Thankfully Kget continued where it left off, but I would like to find out why 
this happens.

Nigel.

[Lonni J Friedman]

On 11/7/06, Nigel Henry <cave.dnb(a)tiscali.fr&gt; wrote:
>  On Tuesday 07 November 2006 23:42, Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>  > Tony Nelson wrote:
>  > > It sounds like X is stuck.  Does Ctl-Alt-F1 (or F2) give you a Virtual
>  > > Terminal?
>  >
>  > Sorry, no. All keystrokes are blocked out.
>  >
>  > PA
>
>  I've had the same thing on FC2 today, and on odd occasions before. No mouse,
>  and no keyboard. Today with nothing running but Gkrellm, and Kget fetching
>  the elive iso, I noticed a time difference between the 2 machines. Looking
>  closer the one machine had completely locked up. Kget was presumably still
>  downloading, but everything on the desktop was locked up. Another hard reset.
>  Thankfully Kget continued where it left off, but I would like to find out why
>  this happens. 
Which X driver are you using?


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman                                    netllama(a)gmail.com
LlamaLand                       http://netllama.linux-sxs.org

[Nigel Henry]

On Wednesday 08 November 2006 01:01, Lonni J Friedman wrote:
>  On 11/7/06, Nigel Henry <cave.dnb(a)tiscali.fr&gt; wrote:
>  > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 23:42, Per-Anton Rønning wrote:
>  > > Tony Nelson wrote:
>  > > > It sounds like X is stuck.  Does Ctl-Alt-F1 (or F2) give you a
>  > > > Virtual Terminal?
>  > >
>  > > Sorry, no. All keystrokes are blocked out.
>  > >
>  > > PA
>  >
>  > I've had the same thing on FC2 today, and on odd occasions before. No
>  > mouse, and no keyboard. Today with nothing running but Gkrellm, and Kget
>  > fetching the elive iso, I noticed a time difference between the 2
>  > machines. Looking closer the one machine had completely locked up. Kget
>  > was presumably still downloading, but everything on the desktop was
>  > locked up. Another hard reset. Thankfully Kget continued where it left
>  > off, but I would like to find out why this happens.
>
>  Which X driver are you using? 
I know FC2 is a bit ancient, but all of the X stuff according to synaptic is 
xorg 6.7.0-14.1.legacy. This may not be an X problem though, because I 
recently had the same thing happen on either Kubuntu, or Debian Sarge on the 
same machine, (can't remember which), so perhaps it's a mobo problem. The 
machine is clean, as I recently gave it a good blow out.

Nigel.
>  --
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  L. Friedman                                    netllama(a)gmail.com
>  LlamaLand                       http://netllama.linux-sxs.org

[Robin Laing]

Per-Anton Running wrote:
>  Hi all.
>  A very annoying feature has suddenly caught up with me,  now when 
>  running FC5.
>  This has been a plague earlier with other distros, and after installing 
>  FC5 it was "clean" for quite some time, until suddenly and with no 
>  apparent motivation the screen freezes, i.e., no keyboard typing and no 
>  mouseclicks are accepted.  Programs are still running, I have a back 
>  door via my old backup machine, that is, I can establish a 
>  SSH-connection and do a controlled shutdown via that back door. If I am 
>  runnig emacs it seems to save the latest input in a #<filename.cc># 
>  file, so nothing is lost. But it is annoying hainv to restart the 
>  computer so frequently.
>  Has anyone else experienced this? Has anyone (in case) found a cure, or 
>  is this something I have to live with?
>  Could it be hardware related? Or driver related?
>  I would be very thankful to have some comments on this.
>  
>  PA
>  
>  
>  
>   
Just in case, check your power supply voltages.  I had the same thing 
happen and it turned out to be a low +5v rail from the PS.  Just a thought.

-- 
Robin Laing