Picking a new laptop

I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but I'm probably going to
need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't really have enough memory
and it's maxed out.

Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer Aspire 1,
and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the USB.  I'm not
comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you
have had good experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions
would be very welcome.

[Richard England]

Consider Framework (https://frame.work/) depending on your needs.

I have F35 installed and everything "just works" ©  :-)

~~R

On 1/31/22 14:16, joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't
> really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer Aspire 1,
> and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the USB.  I'm not
> comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you
> have had good experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions
> would be very welcome.
>

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2022-01-31 at 17:16 -0500, joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm
>  probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one
>  doesn't really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>  
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's
>  Acer Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot
>  from the USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would
>  rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good
>  experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop,
>  suggestions would be very welcome. 
I have F35 running on an Aspire 1 I inherited from my daughter. It
wasn't particularly difficult once I figured out the hotkeys for
booting from USB. I also replaced the internal HDD with an old SSD I
had lying around and it made a huge difference.

poc

[Roger Wells]

On 1/31/22 17:16, joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't
> really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer Aspire 1,
> and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the USB.  I'm not
> comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you
> have had good experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions
> would be very welcome. 
I have been running Fedora on IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad X Series (so far x220, 
x240, x260, x280 at least) with no issues at all.  I have humorously 
surmised in the past that I believed Fedora developers are probably 
doing their work on x series thinkpads.
HTH


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[Geoffrey Leach]

Hmmmm ... well how's about a company that designs *for* Linux?
Star Labs https://starlabs.systems/ is a UK company that sells direct.
I have their Starlite laptops and had absolutely no problem loading
Fedora 32, even though it's not one of their "guaranteed to run" distos.

Oh, and if something should go wrong, its nice to know that you won't
get the, "Oh, we don't support Linux" response.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:16:40 -0500 (EST)
joe(a)zeff.us wrote:

>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm
>  probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one
>  doesn't really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>  
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's
>  Acer Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot
>  from the USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would
>  rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good
>  experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop,
>  suggestions would be very welcome.
>  _______________________________________________ users mailing list --
>  users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to
>  users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List
>  Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure

[Neal Becker]

I believe both lenovo and dell ship laptops with linux installed.

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:37 PM Geoffrey Leach <geoff(a)hughes.net&gt; wrote:

>  Hmmmm ... well how's about a company that designs *for* Linux?
>  Star Labs https://starlabs.systems/ is a UK company that sells direct.
>  I have their Starlite laptops and had absolutely no problem loading
>  Fedora 32, even though it's not one of their "guaranteed to run" distos.
>
>  Oh, and if something should go wrong, its nice to know that you won't
>  get the, "Oh, we don't support Linux" response.
>
>  On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:16:40 -0500 (EST)
>  joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>
>  > I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but I'm
>  > probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one
>  > doesn't really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>  >
>  > Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's
>  > Acer Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot
>  > from the USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would
>  > rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good
>  > experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop,
>  > suggestions would be very welcome.
>  > _______________________________________________ users mailing list --
>  > users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to
>  > users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List
>  > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > List Archives:
>  >
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
>  _______________________________________________
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>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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>  

-- 
*Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*

[George N. White III]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 08:17, Neal Becker <ndbecker2(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  I believe both lenovo and dell ship laptops with linux installed.
>  
They do, but sometimes they use very new chips and drivers that
aren't yet available for other distros, so you may be stuck with the
vendor-supported distro until drivers become more widely available.

I recommend looking for a model from a couple years ago -- long
enough for user reports of any issues to be findable by Google.

At present, large organizations are replacing relatively new laptops
that won't run Windows 11 (e.g., some models of Dell Latitude 7480,
but see Setting up Linux in 7480 - Dell Community
<https://www.dell.com/community/Latitude/Setting-up-Linux-in-7480/td-p/784...>)
so you might want
to check Dell's "refurbished" systems or eBay.  One problem is that such
laptops are often sold with a variety of wifi cards, so you may
need to swap in a more linux-friendly component.   Higher end
Dell and Lenovo are generally easier to service than some
consumer laptops, but you can often find online instructions for
SSD and wifi upgrades.


>  On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:37 PM Geoffrey Leach
> <geoff(a)hughes.net&gt; wrote:
>
> > Hmmmm ... well how's about a company that designs *for* Linux?
> > Star Labs https://starlabs.systems/ is a UK company that sells direct.
> > I have their Starlite laptops and had absolutely no problem loading
> > Fedora 32, even though it's not one of their "guaranteed to run"
> distos.
> >
> > Oh, and if something should go wrong, its nice to know that you won't
> > get the, "Oh, we don't support Linux" response.
> >
> > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:16:40 -0500 (EST)
> > joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
> >
> > > I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but I'm
> > > probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one
> > > doesn't really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
> > >
> > > Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's
> > > Acer Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot
> > > from the USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would
> > > rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good
> > > experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop,
> > > suggestions would be very welcome.
> > > _______________________________________________ users mailing list --
> > > users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to
> > > users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List
> > > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > > List Archives:
> > >
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
> > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
> > _______________________________________________
> > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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> >
>
>
>  --
>  *Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*
>  _______________________________________________
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>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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>  

-- 
George N. White III

[ja]

On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 09:28 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
>  On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 08:17, Neal Becker <ndbecker2(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  > I believe both lenovo and dell ship laptops with linux installed.
>  > 
>  
>  
>  They do, but sometimes they use very new chips and drivers that
>  aren't yet available for other distros, so you may be stuck with the
>  vendor-supported distro until drivers become more widely available.
>  
>  I recommend looking for a model from a couple years ago -- long
>  enough for user reports of any issues to be findable by Google.
>  
>  At present, large organizations are replacing relatively new laptops
>  that won't run Windows 11 (e.g., some models of Dell Latitude 7480, 
>  but see Setting up Linux in 7480 - Dell Community) so you might want 
>  to check Dell's "refurbished" systems or eBay.  One problem is that such
>  laptops are often sold with a variety of wifi cards, so you may
>  need to swap in a more linux-friendly component.   Higher end
>  Dell and Lenovo are generally easier to service than some
>  consumer laptops, but you can often find online instructions for 
>  SSD and wifi upgrades.  
>  
>  > 
>  > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:37 PM Geoffrey Leach <geoff(a)hughes.net&gt; wrote:
>  > > Hmmmm ... well how's about a company that designs *for* Linux?
>  > > Star Labs https://starlabs.systems/ is a UK company that sells direct.
>  > > I have their Starlite laptops and had absolutely no problem loading
>  > > Fedora 32, even though it's not one of their "guaranteed to run"
> distos.
>  > > 
>  > > Oh, and if something should go wrong, its nice to know that you won't
>  > > get the, "Oh, we don't support Linux" response.
>  > > 
>  > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:16:40 -0500 (EST)
>  > > joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>  > > 
>  > > > I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but I'm
>  > > > probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one
>  > > > doesn't really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>  > > > 
>  > > > Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's
>  > > > Acer Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot
>  > > > from the USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would
>  > > > rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good
>  > > > experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop,
>  > > > suggestions would be very welcome.
>  > > > _______________________________________________ users mailing list --
>  > > > users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to
>  > > > users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List
>  > > > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > > > List Archives:
>  > > >
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > > List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
>  > 
>  > 
>  > -- 
>  > Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it
>  > _______________________________________________
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>  > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
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Interested to see the UK StarLabs site.

I have been using Fedora 34 & 35 on a customised version from here

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

Very pleased with it.

John

[Kevin Becker]

On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 09:28 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
>  
>  I recommend looking for a model from a couple years ago -- long
>  enough for user reports of any issues to be findable by Google.
>  
>  At present, large organizations are replacing relatively new laptops
>  that won't run Windows 11 (e.g., some models of Dell Latitude 7480, 
>  but see Setting up Linux in 7480 - Dell Community) so you might want 
>  to check Dell's "refurbished" systems or eBay.  One problem is that
>  such
>  laptops are often sold with a variety of wifi cards, so you may
>  need to swap in a more linux-friendly component.   Higher end
>  Dell and Lenovo are generally easier to service than some
>  consumer laptops, but you can often find online instructions for 
>  SSD and wifi upgrades.   
I've run fedora for years on an old Dell Latitude E7440 and it still
works great.  Very easy to upgrade and service as well.  I also have it
running on a newer XPS13, not sure which specific version but it's a
least 3 years old, and it also has run great with no issues at all.

[Tim]

On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 09:28 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
>  I recommend looking for a model from a couple years ago -- long
>  enough for user reports of any issues to be findable by Google. 
That's a bit of a difficult thing to do.  Unless a supplier has been
saddled with unsold stock, you can only buy new.  And buying second-
hand runs the usual risk that many scumbags just rip people off by
selling worn out, and knowingly broken, things without any conscience.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 5.11.22-100.fc32.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed May 19 18:58:25 UTC 2021 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

[George N. White III]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 15:04, Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 09:28 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
>  > I recommend looking for a model from a couple years ago -- long
>  > enough for user reports of any issues to be findable by Google.
>
>  That's a bit of a difficult thing to do.  Unless a supplier has been
>  saddled with unsold stock, you can only buy new.  And buying second-
>  hand runs the usual risk that many scumbags just rip people off by
>  selling worn out, and knowingly broken, things without any conscience.
>  
There are established, reputable sellers who provide a warranty:

Refurbished Laptops, Desktops & Monitors | Dell USA
<https://www.dell.com/en-us/dfh/shop/refurbished/cp/outlet-dfh>
Certified Refurbished Products - Apple
<https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished>
Apple Refurbished Products: Should You Buy Them? - MacRumors
<https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-refurbished/>

There are some independent resellers who have been in business
for years and have built up a good reputation.  Some of my friends
have been buying used Apple gear for years

For me, putting linux on a system that was introduced 2 years ago means
someone else has done the work of sorting out issues with drivers and
any fixes have made it into distributions.  Sometimes there are features
that still don't work (sound, network) but cheap workarounds are known.

-- 
George N. White III

[Jonathan Billings]

On Feb 1, 2022, at 07:18, Neal Becker <ndbecker2(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  I believe both lenovo and dell ship laptops with linux installed.
I know that Dell ships some laptops with Ubuntu, but I don’t follow too closely because we
use RHEL.  I have tested several models and many of the non-nvidia GPU models work great.
Nvidia stuff is usually working with some quirks and caveats.  Fedora typically works
quite well with it, due to newer Nouveau drivers and updated kernels.

Lenovo certifies many of its models with RHEL, and any of those should be fine with
Fedora.  Most of the time, the fixes for RHEL support start in Fedora.  Check their
support page for what is certified:

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426

(Keep in mind, if it says “RHEL 8.3” that means 8.3+ or 8.3 or newer.  I’ve been bugging
them to make that clearer.)

Part of my job is supporting RHEL on laptops so this subject is near and dear to my
heart.

—
Jonathan Billings

[Richard Shaw]

I have an HP ENVY x360 with Ryzen 5 4500U that has been working great.

Early on I had some weird issues where the mouse / trackpad would work
during login, but not once the desktop loaded. Rebooting fixed it. But with
the 5.15+ kernels I have had zero issues.

It's got enough HP to play Tomb Raider from Steam. I did upgrade the memory
to 16GB.

It is a thin model, no optical drive and no Ethernet port. On the rare
occasion I need Ethernet I have a USB-C adapter. I've gotten 24MB/s over
wireless doing updates with my UniFi AC Lite (Wifi 5) APs.

Thanks,
Richard

[George N. White III]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 18:17, <joe(a)zeff.us&gt; wrote:

>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm probably
>  going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't really
>  have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer
>  Aspire 1, and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the
>  USB.  I'm not comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get
>  myself an Acer.  If any of you have had good experiences recently with
>  getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions would be very welcome.
>  
My brother used to work for USDA.  His experience was that Lenovo laptops
held up much better
under "field" conditions than Dell models, but then USDA required that they
dispose of the Lenovo gear.

-- 
George N. White III

[Robert Moskowitz]

I have been using Lenovo for years and versions of Fedora.  I want the 
eraserhead mouse.

Currently I have an x140e which is quad core.  Nice.

I have replaced the stock HD with a 500GB SSD to lengthen battery life 
and such.

Recently I upgraded to beyond spec 16GB memory and it is working just 
fine.  Evidence is you can take it up to 32GB with 'current' memory cards.

I AM having weirdness with video and Xfce.  Can't get VLC to show 
videos, system locks.  Never had this problem in the past, so I may 
eventually get to the bottom of this latest challenge.

For me, the x240 has no advantage over the x140e.

On 1/31/22 17:16, joe(a)zeff.us wrote:
>  I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but
> I'm probably going to need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't
> really have enough memory and it's maxed out.
>
>  Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer Aspire 1,
> and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the USB.  I'm not
> comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you
> have had good experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions
> would be very welcome.
>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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[James Szinger]

I have had good results from ThinkPads over the years.  The newest
addition is an E595 which "just works" with Fedors 35 and was
relatively affordable.  Business-class laptops and desktops also tend
to be designed with service in mind, so they can be fixed.

Another family member has an older HP Spectre X360 which runs mostly
fine—the main issue is that scales correctly to the 4k display.  This
affect both Linux and Windows.

Finally, I am enjoying the MacBook I use for work.  It runs all the
Unix software I want and 'Ctrl-A' and 'Ctrl-E' do the right thing in
Emacs, the terminal, and the web browser.  I wish there were a Linux
desktop that did that and used the Command key the right way also.

Jim

[Neal Becker]

My 'Ctrl-A' and 'Ctrl-E' work just fine (ctrl mapped to capslock where
the
unix gods intended)..  Alt is meta.  What do you mean by "I wish there were
a Linux
desktop that did that and used the Command key the right way also."?

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 9:21 AM James Szinger <jszinger(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  I have had good results from ThinkPads over the years.  The newest
>  addition is an E595 which "just works" with Fedors 35 and was
>  relatively affordable.  Business-class laptops and desktops also tend
>  to be designed with service in mind, so they can be fixed.
>
>  Another family member has an older HP Spectre X360 which runs mostly
>  fine—the main issue is that scales correctly to the 4k display.  This
>  affect both Linux and Windows.
>
>  Finally, I am enjoying the MacBook I use for work.  It runs all the
>  Unix software I want and 'Ctrl-A' and 'Ctrl-E' do the right thing in
>  Emacs, the terminal, and the web browser.  I wish there were a Linux
>  desktop that did that and used the Command key the right way also.
>
>  Jim
>
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-- 
*Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it*

[James Szinger]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:27:57 -0500
Neal Becker <ndbecker2(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  My 'Ctrl-A' and 'Ctrl-E' work just fine (ctrl mapped
> to capslock
>  where the unix gods intended)..  Alt is meta.  What do you mean by "I
>  wish there were a Linux
>  desktop that did that and used the Command key the right way also."? 
Not for me.  Under F35 Mate:

    emacs    Ctrl-A  beginning of line
    bash     Ctrl-A  beginning of line
    firefox  Ctrl-A  select all

Mac OS:

    emacs    Ctrl-A  beginning of line
    bash     Ctrl-A  beginning of line
    firefox  Ctrl-A  beginning of line

The Linux keybindings are not consistent and thus do not work fine,
for my definition of fine.

For the command (or super) key, I want the follow global bindings:

    command-A  select all
    command-C  copy
    command-P  print
    command-Q  quit
    etc.

Most of these are bound to the control key in Linux GUI applications.
This is annoying since in my brain the control key is bound to the
emacs-like functions.

Jim

[Dorian ROSSE]

For Ubuntu I use a Lenovo ThinkPad X250 fourteen inch after some line of command it froze
but get a new life it leaves to froze (maybe because I put it in a DMZ),

I don't receive often update but it run very fast I was bought for replace an IBM
laptop become too much older after Ubuntu leave processor i386,

This is an Intel i5 four core and run too windows ten,

I was bought for two hundred euro in occasion,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.
________________________________
From: joe(a)zeff.us <joe(a)zeff.us&gt;
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 11:16:40 PM
To: users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
Subject: Picking a new laptop

I'm still trying to get my current laptop running again, but I'm probably going to
need to get a new one.  If nothing else, this one doesn't really have enough memory
and it's maxed out.

Right now, I'm also trying to get Xubuntu loaded onto my sister's Acer Aspire 1,
and having considerable difficulty getting it to boot from the USB.  I'm not
comfortable with her new laptop and would rather not get myself an Acer.  If any of you
have had good experiences recently with getting Fedora installed on a laptop, suggestions
would be very welcome.
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