Kernel 3.11 and Fedora 19...

[Fernando Cassia]

Hi folks,

A few questions considering the nice improvements [1] in Kernel 3.11

1. Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to compile
a 3.11 kernel with the same build parameters as the F19 one?

2. Which kernel does F20 expect to use?

3. Anyone on this list running kernel 3.11 with F19? Did you build it
yourself or did you use one provided by someone else? In the latter case:
who/where? :)

Thanks in advance,

FC
[1] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ1MDI

[Reindl Harald]

Am 07.09.2013 00:07, schrieb Fernando Cassia:
> A few questions considering the nice improvements [1] in Kernel 3.11
> Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to compile a 3.11 kernel with the same build
>
> parameters as the F19 one?

not now
> Which kernel does F20 expect to use?

3.11 or 3.12 or whatever is recent then
> Anyone on this list running kernel 3.11 with F19? Did you build it yourself or did you use one provided by
>
> someone else? In the latter case: who/where? :)

the F20 builds are running smooth on F19 for testing
currently they may be debug-builds
simply wait a few weeks and you see 3.11 for F18/F19 in a regular build

[root@testserver:~]$ uname -r
3.11.0-3.fc20.x86_64

[root@testserver:~]$ cat /etc/redhat-release
Fedora release 19 (Schrödinger’s Cat)

["Germán A. Racca"]

On 09/06/2013 07:07 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> A few questions considering the nice improvements [1] in Kernel 3.11
> Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to
>
> compile a 3.11 kernel with the same build parameters as the F19 one?

You can find here the different commits:

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/kernel.git/

HTH,
Germán.
> Which kernel does F20 expect to use?
>
> Anyone on this list running kernel 3.11 with F19? Did you build it
>
> yourself or did you use one provided by someone else? In the latter
> case: who/where? :)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> FC
> [1] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ1MDI
> --
> During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a
> revolutionary act
> George Orwell

[Heinz Diehl]

On 07.09.2013, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to compile
>
> a 3.11 kernel with the same build parameters as the F19 one?

I don't know. You could use the Fedora .config which usually resides
in /boot after installing a Fedora kernel.
> Which kernel does F20 expect to use?

Can't answer on that one.
> Anyone on this list running kernel 3.11 with F19? Did you build it
>
> yourself or did you use one provided by someone else? In the latter case:
> who/where? :)

I've never used any distribution kernel on any distribution
(incl. Fedora) longer than in the installation process. Usually, I run
a vanilla kernel with some minor own modifications.

Currently, I'm running 3.11 on this F19 laptop, without any major
problems.

[htd@kiera ~]$ uname -a
Linux kiera.fritha.org 3.11.0 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Sep 3 17:34:31 CEST 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

I can mail you my own .config if you want, but most probably you won't benefit
from it, because it's highly tailored to the hardware it's running
on. If you need advice on how to run your own kernel on F19, I can get
you on the way.

A good starting point would be to download one of the kernels from
kernel.org, and place the current F19 .config in it's main directory.
These few steps will get you a new kernel:

1. make oldconfig
2. make -jx (where x is the numbers of cores/threads of your CPU)
3. make modules_install
4. make install

[M A Young]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2013, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to compile a
>
> 3.11 kernel with the same build parameters as the F19 one?
> Which kernel does F20 expect to use?

F20 is scheduled to release with 3.11, and F19 should get a 3.11 kernel 
soon, see the recent Fedora Kernel meeting notes
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-09-06/fedora-meeting.20...

Michael Young

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:08 AM, M A Young  wrote:
> F20 is scheduled to release with 3.11, and F19 should get a 3.11 kernel soon, see the recent Fedora Kernel meeting notes

Thanks Michael (and Heinz, and everyone else who replied). I think I'm
gonna wait for 3.11 to come our way from the official repos. I didnt
think it was so close from reaching us.

Im specially interested in that feature of 3.11 I read about last week
-whose name I now forget, it wasnt 'lazy writes'' but close to it-
that would minimize writes to SSDs and extend their life.

FC

[Heinz Diehl]

On 07.09.2013, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Im specially interested in that feature of 3.11 I read about last week
> -whose name I now forget, it wasnt 'lazy writes'' but close to it-
> that would minimize writes to SSDs and extend their life.

I'm not aware of such a feature added to 3.11. In case you mean
"bcache": it works as a block layer cache (similar to dm-cache), which
allows to use a solid state drive to work as a cache for a
rotational harddisk on the same system.

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Heinz Diehl  wrote:
> I'm not aware of such a feature added to 3.11. In case you mean
> "bcache": it works as a block layer cache (similar to dm-cache), which
> allows to use a solid state drive to work as a cache for a
> rotational harddisk on the same system.

Exactly, thats the one and came with 3.10... versions move too fast I
ended up mixing up them.

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.10#head-a0ad787f2e030b53bdabbb4b6e22e7ed168...
---

Bcache, a block layer cache for SSD caching

Since SSD storage devices became popular, many people has used them to
speed up their storage stack. Bcache is an implementation of this
functionality, and it allows SSDs to cache other block devices. It's
analogous to L2Arc for ZFS, but Bcache also does writeback caching
(besides just write through caching), and it's filesystem agnostic.
It's designed to be switched on with a minimum of effort, and to work
well without configuration on any setup. By default it won't cache
sequential IO, just the random reads and writes that SSDs excel at.
It's meant to be suitable for desktops, servers, high-end storage
arrays, and perhaps even embedded.
---

FC

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 09:20:29 -0300
Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Heinz Diehl  wrote:
> > I'm not aware of such a feature added to 3.11. In case you mean
> > "bcache": it works as a block layer cache (similar to dm-cache),
> > which allows to use a solid state drive to work as a cache for a
> > rotational harddisk on the same system.
>
> Exactly, thats the one and came with 3.10... versions move too fast I
> ended up mixing up them.
>
> http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.10#head-a0ad787f2e030b53bdabbb4b6e22e7ed168...

Note though, that this feature will not minimize the writes to the SSD.
Quite the opposite, it will use SSD as a caching mechanism for slower
HDDs --- it will tend to *maximize* writes to SSD in order to minimize
the usage of HDDs, and thereby increase performance. Of course, at the
cost of wearing out SSDs sooner rather than later.

So if you want to maximize the life of your SSD, you want to make sure
that this feature is turned OFF.

Btw, what is the default for this option in Fedora, on or off? If the
default is on, how to turn it off in the cleanest possible way?

HTH, :-)
Marko

[Heinz Diehl]

On 07.09.2013, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> Btw, what is the default for this option in Fedora, on or off? If the
> default is on, how to turn it off in the cleanest possible way?

Enabling CONFIG_BCACHE alone doesn't do anything to your SSD. You have
to set up and register the devices you want to use in order to use
bcache. Don't panic, all is good :-)

[Reindl Harald]

Am 07.09.2013 16:04, schrieb Marko Vojinovic:
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 09:20:29 -0300
> Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Heinz Diehl  wrote:
> > > I'm not aware of such a feature added to 3.11. In case you mean
> > > "bcache": it works as a block layer cache (similar to dm-cache),
> > > which allows to use a solid state drive to work as a cache for a
> > > rotational harddisk on the same system.
> >
> > Exactly, thats the one and came with 3.10... versions move too fast I
> > ended up mixing up them.
> >
> > http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.10#head-a0ad787f2e030b53bdabbb4b6e22e7ed168...
>
> Note though, that this feature will not minimize the writes to the SSD.
> Quite the opposite, it will use SSD as a caching mechanism for slower
> HDDs --- it will tend to *maximize* writes to SSD in order to minimize
> the usage of HDDs, and thereby increase performance. Of course, at the
> cost of wearing out SSDs sooner rather than later.
>
> So if you want to maximize the life of your SSD, you want to make sure
> that this feature is turned OFF.
>
> Btw, what is the default for this option in Fedora, on or off? If the
> default is on, how to turn it off in the cleanest possible way?

how could this feature turned on at default?
if you think about it you know it's impossible
why? because that would mean using a *random??* SSD as cache for *what* devices?

[Heinz Diehl]

On 09.09.2013, Reindl Harald wrote:

[bcache]
> how could this feature turned on at default?
> if you think about it you know it's impossible
> why? because that would mean using a *random??* SSD as cache for *what* devices?

Compiling in bcache support *doesn't do anything*. You have to set up
your disks and get them registered before you can use your ssd as a
cache. You should read the documentation which comes with the Linux
kernel source, or one of the tutorials on the net, e.g. this one:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bcache

So I assume it will be turned on, to give the users the possibility to
use it if they want to.

[Reindl Harald]

Am 09.09.2013 21:03, schrieb Heinz Diehl:
> On 09.09.2013, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> [bcache]
> > how could this feature turned on at default?
> > if you think about it you know it's impossible
> > why? because that would mean using a *random??* SSD as cache for *what* devices?
>
> Compiling in bcache support *doesn't do anything*. You have to set up
> your disks and get them registered before you can use your ssd as a
> cache. You should read the documentation which comes with the Linux
> kernel source, or one of the tutorials on the net, e.g. this one:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bcache

exactly what i said............

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:
> Note though, that this feature will not minimize the writes to the SSD.
> Quite the opposite

Thanks for the heads up... ok, then Il'll put a HDD to cache writes to
the SSD that caches writes to the HDD... no,wait..

joke,joke...

FC

[Rex Dieter]

Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> A few questions considering the nice improvements [1] in Kernel 3.11
> Is there a kernel spec file for Fedora 19 that could be used to compile
>
> a 3.11 kernel with the same build parameters as the F19 one?

This may interest you,
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RawhideKernelNodebug

-- Rex

[Fernando Cassia]

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Rex Dieter  wrote:
> This may interest you,
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RawhideKernelNodebug

Thanks Rex!. Looks like a good way to try recent kernels without compiling.

FC