curious -- looking for thoughts/opinions

[bruce]

Hi.

Looking at getting another laptop.

Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the data
on the current drive to the new laptop.

Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not sure
what the new laptop will have.

I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).

I don't want RHEL/centos -- I'd like to be newer.

So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
this kind of process...

thanks!

[Samuel Sieb]

On 3/21/23 18:21, bruce wrote:
> Looking at getting another laptop.
>
> Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the data
> on the current drive to the new laptop.
>
> Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not sure
> what the new laptop will have.
>
> I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).

Since you don't want to use Fedora (which isn't bleeding edge unless you 
use rawhide), this really isn't the right place to be asking.

And if you're going to be changing distros, then you can't copy the 
system anyway.  Just copy your home directory files.

[Tim]

On Tue, 2023-03-21 at 21:21 -0400, Bruce wrote:
> So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
> this kind of process...

With older laptops it was quite easy to remove the hard drive, new very
slim laptops are more like a sealed unit.

But my method of your kind of upgrade would be to set up your new
laptop as a completely new device.  Get it working, experiment with it.
If you mess up the installation, it's perfectly safe to restart without
losing any of your data.  And you have the opportunity to try other
releases, too.

Then, when you're happy with it, unplug your old laptop hard drive,
connect it to the new system via a USB/SATA docking station of some
kind, *copy* your user data onto the new system.  Unplug your old hard
drive, and store it safely as a backup of your data.

For the "sealed device" problem, there are networking options you can
use to copy your own files over.

[bruce]

hi Tim.

thanks.  Hadn't even thought of the possibility issue of not being able to
access the internal components for upgrading.  Another issue.

What I've got on my rough process is a complete list of installed apps as
well as libs/files from the different sys dirs... and the var dirs..

I've tested some of this in the past with a cheap cloud instance to see how
well the basic process works.

Of course there would be all the rest of the stuff. security stuff. user
dirs/stuff

thanks

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 12:44 AM Tim via users 
wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-03-21 at 21:21 -0400, Bruce wrote:
> > So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
> > this kind of process...
>
> With older laptops it was quite easy to remove the hard drive, new very
> slim laptops are more like a sealed unit.
>
> But my method of your kind of upgrade would be to set up your new
> laptop as a completely new device.  Get it working, experiment with it.
> If you mess up the installation, it's perfectly safe to restart without
> losing any of your data.  And you have the opportunity to try other
> releases, too.
>
> Then, when you're happy with it, unplug your old laptop hard drive,
> connect it to the new system via a USB/SATA docking station of some
> kind, *copy* your user data onto the new system.  Unplug your old hard
> drive, and store it safely as a backup of your data.
>
> For the "sealed device" problem, there are networking options you can
> use to copy your own files over.
>
> --
>
> uname -rsvp
> Linux 3.10.0-1160.88.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 7 15:41:52 UTC 2023 x86_64
>
> Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
> I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
>
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[George N. White III]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:21 PM bruce  wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Looking at getting another laptop.
>
> Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the data
> on the current drive to the new laptop.

I populate my home directory on a new machine from the backup of the old
machine.  In the past I used NFS, but now my backups are on USB drives. It
Is helpful to have the old machine in working order to troubleshoot things
that break on the new system (usually my own programs that use a library
that
is no longer available from distros — a hint that I need to find a newer
library.
> Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not sure
> what the new laptop will have.
>
> I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).
>
> I don't want RHEL/centos -- I'd like to be newer.
>
> So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
> this kind of process...

I find there are often issues with newer systems.  At present, businesses
are
dumping windows systems that won’t run Win11, so you can find higher end
laptops 2 or 3 years old at bargain prices.  Many are excellent linux
platforms,
but you need to check on linux-hardware.org.  There are often issues with
display brightness, sound, or wifi.  I deal with  by updating the wifi and
using a USB
sound dongle or a high end USB sound device.

Laptops this age generally allow you to upgrade internal wifi, RAM, and
SSD.   If
you are considering a big-name laptop with linux pre-installed, you may be
able to
check the specs at linux-hardware.org.

[bruce]

Hi George.

The laptop in question would be one of the AMD 5 ryzen 6/10 core
systems from the hp site.

I'd add mem/1TB internal drive as well.

thanks for your comments!

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:05 AM George N. White III  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:21 PM bruce  wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Looking at getting another laptop.
> >
> > Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the data
> > on the current drive to the new laptop.
>
> I populate my home directory on a new machine from the backup of the old machine.  In the past I used NFS, but now my backups are on USB drives. It
> Is helpful to have the old machine in working order to troubleshoot things
> that break on the new system (usually my own programs that use a library that
> is no longer available from distros — a hint that I need to find a newer library.
> > Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not sure
> > what the new laptop will have.
> >
> > I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).
> >
> > I don't want RHEL/centos -- I'd like to be newer.
> >
> > So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
> > this kind of process...
>
> I find there are often issues with newer systems.  At present, businesses are
> dumping windows systems that won’t run Win11, so you can find higher end
> laptops 2 or 3 years old at bargain prices.  Many are excellent linux platforms,
> but you need to check on linux-hardware.org.  There are often issues with display brightness, sound, or wifi.  I deal with  by updating the wifi and using a USB
> sound dongle or a high end USB sound device.
>
> Laptops this age generally allow you to upgrade internal wifi, RAM, and SSD.   If
> you are considering a big-name laptop with linux pre-installed, you may be able to
> check the specs at linux-hardware.org.
>
> --
> George N. White III
>
> users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

[George N. White III]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 12:36 PM bruce  wrote:
> Hi George.
>
> The laptop in question would be one of the AMD 5 ryzen 6/10 core
> systems from the hp site.
>
> I'd add mem/1TB internal drive as well.

I'm careful to have a 2nd power source laptops (these days a 3rd party
USB C charger can often be used). They are often left behind in hotels
or meetings, and are prone to failure.   My youngest dog ran through the
charger cable for a laptop last night, killing the charger, so now I'm
using
a Dewalt USB C charger and cable (it came with an adapter I use to charge
devices from Dewalt batteries during power outages) in place of the original
proprietary charger.

Many new laptops (even high-end Dell XPS) now get only a 1-year warranty:

HP Dev One 1 year of parts, 1 year of labor and no onsite
coverage limited warranty (1/1/0 warranty). Standard one-year
limited warranty covers repairs or replacement of parts that are
deemed defective.

Apple gives a 1-year warranty on refurbished Intel macbooks.  They
are close to my 3-year "best before" limit, and has the silly touch bar
that may not ever work in linux.

HP Dev One is sold out, but it is worth comparing hardware specs with
ones you are considering and looking at user reports for the Dev One
models.

[Roger Heflin]

I have been buying the lowest priced HP/Acer/ASUS that has the
features I want.  I don't know that there is much difference between
them, and I am not sure who the real maker/designed of the laptop is.

See the ODM section on this page;  From that it becomes clear you have
zero idea who really made/designed the product and how good of a job
they did.   So pick the price and features that you want and ignore
the Brand as the brand seems to matter little anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manufacturers

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:36 AM bruce  wrote:
> Hi George.
>
> The laptop in question would be one of the AMD 5 ryzen 6/10 core
> systems from the hp site.
>
> I'd add mem/1TB internal drive as well.
>
> thanks for your comments!
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:05 AM George N. White III  wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:21 PM bruce  wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Looking at getting another laptop.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the data
> > > on the current drive to the new laptop.
> >
> > I populate my home directory on a new machine from the backup of the old machine.  In the past I used NFS, but now my backups are on USB drives. It
> > Is helpful to have the old machine in working order to troubleshoot things
> > that break on the new system (usually my own programs that use a library that
> > is no longer available from distros — a hint that I need to find a newer library.
> > > Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not sure
> > > what the new laptop will have.
> > >
> > > I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).
> > >
> > > I don't want RHEL/centos -- I'd like to be newer.
> > >
> > > So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use for
> > > this kind of process...
> >
> > I find there are often issues with newer systems.  At present, businesses are
> > dumping windows systems that won’t run Win11, so you can find higher end
> > laptops 2 or 3 years old at bargain prices.  Many are excellent linux platforms,
> > but you need to check on linux-hardware.org.  There are often issues with display brightness, sound, or wifi.  I deal with  by updating the wifi and using a USB
> > sound dongle or a high end USB sound device.
> >
> > Laptops this age generally allow you to upgrade internal wifi, RAM, and SSD.   If
> > you are considering a big-name laptop with linux pre-installed, you may be able to
> > check the specs at linux-hardware.org.
> >
> > --
> > George N. White III
> >
> > users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> > Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
> users mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

[Geoffrey Leach]

You might have a look at https://starlabs.systems/. Designed
and supported in the UK. Custom mfg in China.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:13:03 -0500
Roger Heflin  wrote:
> I have been buying the lowest priced HP/Acer/ASUS that has the
> features I want.  I don't know that there is much difference between
> them, and I am not sure who the real maker/designed of the laptop is.
>
> See the ODM section on this page;  From that it becomes clear you have
> zero idea who really made/designed the product and how good of a job
> they did.   So pick the price and features that you want and ignore
> the Brand as the brand seems to matter little anymore.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manufacturers
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:36 AM bruce  wrote:
> > Hi George.
> >
> > The laptop in question would be one of the AMD 5 ryzen 6/10 core
> > systems from the hp site.
> >
> > I'd add mem/1TB internal drive as well.
> >
> > thanks for your comments!
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:05 AM George N. White III
> >  wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 10:21 PM bruce 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at getting another laptop.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts on completely transferring as well as updating the
> > > > data on the current drive to the new laptop.
> > >
> > > I populate my home directory on a new machine from the backup of
> > > the old machine.  In the past I used NFS, but now my backups are
> > > on USB drives. It Is helpful to have the old machine in working
> > > order to troubleshoot things that break on the new system
> > > (usually my own programs that use a library that is no longer
> > > available from distros — a hint that I need to find a newer
> > > library.
> > > > Assume I might be dealing with a diff flavor of linux. I'm not
> > > > sure what the new laptop will have.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want bleeding edge fedora.. (unless I change my mind).
> > > >
> > > > I don't want RHEL/centos -- I'd like to be newer.
> > > >
> > > > So, give me your thoughts as well as best practice that you use
> > > > for this kind of process...
>
> [...]

[Tim]

On Wed, 2023-03-22 at 08:45 -0400, bruce wrote:
> What I've got on my rough process is a complete list of installed
> apps as well as libs/files from the different sys dirs... and the var
> dirs..

Most libs (and other system files) will be installed by whatever
packages you install (that's if you've been installing packages from
the repos).

One thing I do, post-installation, is when I'm adding any extra apps
that aren't default, I'll write a log into root's homespace.  As I'm
yum/dnf installing whatever, I'll copy the commands into my post-
install log.  That gives me a reminder, for next time, of the things I
added.

Yes, I know dnf has a history but it's handy to have some notes about
what you chose to install, without having to care about the extra bits
it dragged in as dependencies.  And a year later, your dnf history
might be quite long, as opposed to reading a text file of the 8 things
you added after a default install.