I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Thanks for help.
Mike
Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Thanks for help.
Mike
I have come across this before and in one case I had to close the sessions before they were all visible. I was going to do some work on this but never got the time.
Robin Laing wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Thanks for help.
Mike
I have come across this before and in one case I had to close the sessions before they were all visible. I was going to do some work on this but never got the time.
Ok, what do I need to do for that? I used the "Fixate After Write" selection for both sessions. What do I need to do now? Add one more file but not in multi-session mode?
Thanks!
Mike
On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 22:53 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Is the next session set up to add to the previous (importing the directory structure) or start afresh (just using up the left over space instead of a new disc)?
There are various different ways of using multi-session discs.
Mike McCarty wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Thanks for help.
Mike
I have come across this before and in one case I had to close the sessions before they were all visible. I was going to do some work on this but never got the time.
Ok, what do I need to do for that? I used the "Fixate After Write" selection for both sessions. What do I need to do now? Add one more file but not in multi-session mode?
Thanks!
Mike
The way I understand multisession is that you don't fixate after each session. This sounds like a time to do some searching on Google for me to learn.
I had a command that allowed me to see the previous session part but I couldn't mount it. I don't know why. I would have to find the CD that I had the issue with to play again.
The last time I tried to make a multisession CD, I was on RH 7.
On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 09:37 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Thanks for help.
Mike
I have come across this before and in one case I had to close the sessions before they were all visible. I was going to do some work on this but never got the time.
Ok, what do I need to do for that? I used the "Fixate After Write" selection for both sessions. What do I need to do now? Add one more file but not in multi-session mode?
Thanks!
Mike
The way I understand multisession is that you don't fixate after each session. This sounds like a time to do some searching on Google for me to learn.
I had a command that allowed me to see the previous session part but I couldn't mount it. I don't know why. I would have to find the CD that I had the issue with to play again.
The last time I tried to make a multisession CD, I was on RH 7.
Robin Laing
I will suggest you to use again Xcdroast, but this time try to 'read tracks' (Create CD/DVD -> Read Tracks) an then unpack the saved iso file. Your first session should be in the first track.
Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
You can access files in other sessions of a multi-session CD by manually unmounting and remounting with the 'session=x' option, where x is which number session to mount. You have to do it as root. I don't have a multi-session CD handy to test with, but it may work to do a remount for this, e.g. mount -o remount,session=1 /media/cdrecorder
Chris
Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 22:53 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Is the next session set up to add to the previous (importing the directory structure) or start afresh (just using up the left over space instead of a new disc)?
There are various different ways of using multi-session discs.
I don't know. When I created the disc, it seemed odd to me that the default was "Fixate". ISTM that one wouldn't want to fixate after writing to a multi-session. BUT when I deselected that option, a pop-up warned me that it might create a disc which was unusable.
I have tried
# mount -O session=<n> /mnt/cdrom
with <n> in the range 0 to 4 inclusive, and always see the files from the second session I created, but none of the files I put on the disc with the first session.
Mike
Mike McCarty wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 22:53 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Is the next session set up to add to the previous (importing the directory structure) or start afresh (just using up the left over space instead of a new disc)?
There are various different ways of using multi-session discs.
I don't know. When I created the disc, it seemed odd to me that the default was "Fixate". ISTM that one wouldn't want to fixate after writing to a multi-session. BUT when I deselected that option, a pop-up warned me that it might create a disc which was unusable.
I have tried
# mount -O session=<n> /mnt/cdromwith <n> in the range 0 to 4 inclusive, and always see the files from the second session I created, but none of the files I put on the disc with the first session.
Mike
From this am I to understand that you fixated each session?
If a disk isn't fixated, then it can be unusable in some situations. I learned this in the past.
If you fixated after the first session, you don't have multiple sessions but multiple writes. This is another issue.
Mike McCarty wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the next session set up to add to the previous (importing the directory structure) or start afresh (just using up the left over space instead of a new disc)?
There are various different ways of using multi-session discs.
I don't know. When I created the disc, it seemed odd to me that the default was "Fixate". ISTM that one wouldn't want to fixate after writing to a multi-session. BUT when I deselected that option, a pop-up warned me that it might create a disc which was unusable.
I have tried
# mount -O session=<n> /mnt/cdromwith <n> in the range 0 to 4 inclusive, and always see the files from the second session I created, but none of the files I put on the disc with the first session.
Mike
Ok, when I do this:
# mount -o session=0 /mnt/cdrom
I get the first session I wrote, and when I do this:
# mount -o session=1 /mnt/cdrom
I get the second session.
The man page showed the upper-case "O", and mount did not complain when I used the "-O", but still only gave me the second session.
When I use the "-o" rather than "-O" I can get the various sessions.
Mike
Robin Laing wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 22:53 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
I used xcdroast to create a multi-session CDROM. Then later, I added another session, also as multi-session. Now when I access the CDROM, I only see the files I added during the second session.
Where are the first files I put on there? How can I get to them?
Is the next session set up to add to the previous (importing the directory structure) or start afresh (just using up the left over space instead of a new disc)?
There are various different ways of using multi-session discs.
I don't know. When I created the disc, it seemed odd to me that the default was "Fixate". ISTM that one wouldn't want to fixate after writing to a multi-session. BUT when I deselected that option, a pop-up warned me that it might create a disc which was unusable.
I have tried
# mount -O session=<n> /mnt/cdromwith <n> in the range 0 to 4 inclusive, and always see the files from the second session I created, but none of the files I put on the disc with the first session.
Mike
From this am I to understand that you fixated each session?
You are to understand exactly that.
If a disk isn't fixated, then it can be unusable in some situations. I learned this in the past.
That's what xcdroast warned me of.
If you fixated after the first session, you don't have multiple sessions but multiple writes. This is another issue.
Hmm. Then what exactly is "Multi-session Mode"?
Mike
If you fixated after the first session, you don't have multiple sessions but multiple writes. This is another issue.
Hmm. Then what exactly is "Multi-session Mode"?
Mike
OK, let me try to explain.
A CD-R has a table of contents. When you write files to it, it not only writes the files, but the table of contents as well. It is this table of contents that the reading device sees when you for example get a list of files on the CD.
In multi-session mode, what basically happens in the burning software (if done properly), is that it reads this table of contents first before doing anything else. You can tell the burning app to add, update and even delete files. What you must understand is that a CD-R is not erasable ever. Basically when you tell the burning app to add a file, it writes that file plus a new table of contents including all the files previously PLUS the new file. If you tell it to update a file, it will write the new file completely, and in this case, when it finishes the session and writes a modified table of contents, it points the file name to the new position on the disk. The original file is ALSO there, but because a disk only has one table of contents, which says the file exists at point B now, not point A, the original file is essentially not accessible so it looks like it's been updated. Same when you tell the burning app to delete a file. It doesn't write ANYTHING file-wise, but simply writes out a modified table of contents which does not have a pointer for the erased file.
You sort of get what I mean? Multi-session basically keeps a disk flexible by moving a table of contents.
Only one table of contents is active (the latest one) at one time.
Multiple Writes is basically the same EXCEPT that the burning app writes a completely new table of contents every session WITHOUT ANY DETAILS FROM THE PREVIOUS TABLE OF CONTENTS.
So, if you have session 1 with files A, B and C, then write a new session with a file D WITHOUT the burning software knowing about the previous session's table of contents (this usually happens through user error), ONLY file D will be visible.
This is where the session mounting thingy you do becomes necessary. It simply uses a different table of contents to the current active one. On a properly burned multi-session disk this should really not be necessary.
Regards, Ed.
Edward Dekkers wrote:
If you fixated after the first session, you don't have multiple sessions but multiple writes. This is another issue.
Hmm. Then what exactly is "Multi-session Mode"?
Mike
OK, let me try to explain.
Thank you for your kind reply.
A CD-R has a table of contents. When you write files to it, it not only writes the files, but the table of contents as well. It is this table of contents that the reading device sees when you for example get a list of files on the CD.
Yes, I am aware of this.
In multi-session mode, what basically happens in the burning software (if done properly), is that it reads this table of contents first before doing anything else. You can tell the burning app to add, update and even delete files. What you must understand is that a CD-R is not erasable ever.
Yes, I am aware of this. I have always thought of it as being like a regular PROM, one can program more bits to 0, but one can't turn a bit back on. Now, I don't know which way bits are when the CDROM is fresh from the factory, but I figured that once a bit is programmed (to 1 or 0, whichever is "programmed") it can't go back.
And I figured that "deleting" from the disc meant adding a new mark indicating "deleted". In this case, you seem to be saying that the entire TOC gets marked as deleted. Then there must be something like a linked list of TOCs. When a TOC gets deleted, then the deleted flag gets set in the TOC, a new pointer gets added, and a new TOC is written.
Basically when you tell the burning app to add a file, it writes that file plus a new table of contents including all the files previously PLUS the new file. If you tell it to update a file, it will write the new file completely, and in this case, when it finishes the session and writes a modified table of contents, it points the file name to the new position on the disk. The original file is ALSO there, but because a disk only has one table of contents, which says the file
I suppose you mean only one ACTIVE table of contents. Since bits can't be "unprogrammed" on a CDROM, the old TOC must still be there.
exists at point B now, not point A, the original file is essentially not accessible so it looks like it's been updated. Same when you tell the burning app to delete a file. It doesn't write ANYTHING file-wise, but simply writes out a modified table of contents which does not have a pointer for the erased file.
You sort of get what I mean? Multi-session basically keeps a disk flexible by moving a table of contents.
You are using the word "moving" rather loosely, but I believe we are on track.
Only one table of contents is active (the latest one) at one time.
Ah, yes.
Multiple Writes is basically the same EXCEPT that the burning app writes a completely new table of contents every session WITHOUT ANY DETAILS FROM THE PREVIOUS TABLE OF CONTENTS.
Ok. So then there is, from the perspective of the disc format, no difference. The only difference is how much of the previously active TOC gets merged with the new TOC. In one mode, everything from the previous TOC which is not either (1) deleted or (2) updated gets merged into the new TOC w/o change. In another mode, the entire TOC gets ignored. In either case, only the latest (the ACTIVE, if you will) TOC gets used by default. To use other TOCs one must specify on the mount command which TOC to consider to be the ACTIVE one.
So, if you have session 1 with files A, B and C, then write a new session with a file D WITHOUT the burning software knowing about the previous session's table of contents (this usually happens through user error), ONLY file D will be visible.
Hmm. The program I used (xcdroast) has an option to write in multi-session mode, which I selected.
Actually, there are two options which may be selected or deselected.
The first, "write as multi-session" says, in the expanded information "Write the CD in such a way, that it is possible to append further data (in a new session) at a later time. Please note that for the first session you need 22MB extra space on the CD-R/RW and all additional sessions take 13MB each."
The other, "do not fixate after write" is explained as "This prevents the CD-Writer from fixating (closing) the CD after writing. You can use this to create an audio CD in several steps. Just be sure to fixate after the last track. (Or use the 'Fixate CD-R/RW only' button.) Note: this does only work in Track-At-Once-Mode."
I did not select the "do not fixate after write" when I created the CD. IOW, I supposedly "fixated" each of the sessions. When I tried to select "do not fixate after write", I got a pop-up warning me that this might create an unusable CDROM, so I didn't try that.
This is where the session mounting thingy you do becomes necessary. It simply uses a different table of contents to the current active one. On a properly burned multi-session disk this should really not be necessary.
Well, things are basically as I understood them. What I don't understand is why xcdroast created the disc in the manner it did, not merging the TOCs, and what different option selections I need to make in order that this not happen again.
Other than trying each of the four combinations of those two options, what should I do in order to understand what is going on? I have read the web site, but this level of detail is not covered.
Perhaps I need to send an e-mail to the author. I just thought that someone here might be well-acquainted with xcdroast.
Mike
Mike McCarty wrote:
Edward Dekkers wrote:
Well, things are basically as I understood them. What I don't understand is why xcdroast created the disc in the manner it did, not merging the TOCs, and what different option selections I need to make in order that this not happen again.
Other than trying each of the four combinations of those two options, what should I do in order to understand what is going on? I have read the web site, but this level of detail is not covered.
Perhaps I need to send an e-mail to the author. I just thought that someone here might be well-acquainted with xcdroast.
Mike
I understand the problem and this is an area that takes some learning. I actually made a mistake in one of my posts about fixation. I had it confused with finalization. If a disk is finalized, it cannot be used as a multisession. Fixation is what writes the TOC.
http://simplythebest.net/info/pc/cd_writing.html
As I have had problems in the past with multi-session CD's, I decided to take some extra time to look into this as well.
I found this link to be informative. http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialCDBurn.html
It has this about X-CDroast. This is easiest with X-CdRoast which can perform the necessary calculations but it can also be done via the command line.
And this is a direct link on how to make multisession CD's with X-CDroast.
http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/tutorials/xcdroast/multisession.html.en
It points to a step to load the previous session image. Did you do this?
I think it is time to experiment. I use K3B myself.
It is a good day. I learned something new. Why I like this forum.
Robin Laing wrote:
Thanks for the kind reply. This is good info
I understand the problem and this is an area that takes some learning. I actually made a mistake in one of my posts about fixation. I had it confused with finalization. If a disk is finalized, it cannot be used as a multisession. Fixation is what writes the TOC.
Well, *that* at least makes sense. But I dunno why the name "fixation" would be chosen. It's confusing to have "fixation" and "finalization". Too close in meaning and in sound.
[RANT MODE ON]
BTW, why do we have all these "verb turned into adjective turned into noun" words these days, when there is already a noun associated with the verb? For example, we have the verb "to finish". Why not just "finish" the disc? Why verb "to finish" to adjective "final" turned back into verb "finalize" then to noun "finalization" rather than just use the associated verbal noun "to finish" or "finishing"? This is showing up everywhere. It looks like "administrator speak" to me.
We no longer complete plans, nor do we finish plans, we finalize them. We no longer use "completion", we use "finalization". We don't talk about a project being finished or coming to completion, we talk about "finalizing" it.
Reminds me of Scott Adams and Dilbert!
Sheesh!
[RANT MODE OFF]
http://simplythebest.net/info/pc/cd_writing.html
As I have had problems in the past with multi-session CD's, I decided to take some extra time to look into this as well.
I found this link to be informative. http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialCDBurn.html
It has this about X-CDroast. This is easiest with X-CdRoast which can perform the necessary calculations but it can also be done via the command line.
And this is a direct link on how to make multisession CD's with X-CDroast.
http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/tutorials/xcdroast/multisession.html.en
It points to a step to load the previous session image. Did you do this?
Nope. And that's probably the cause. Very nice tutorial there. I've made multisession CDROMs with xcdroast before, and the new files got added in. But I bet that this time I didn't have the CDROM mounted.
I have used k3b on Debian-based distros (Kanotix/Knoppix) and liked it better than xcdroast, but didn't realize there was a version for FC2. I inadvertently found it on my FC2 install disc (2 of 4) and bingo! it's much more intuitive to me now. It has options "Write First Multisession" (or "Start", I forget), "Continue Multisession", and "Finish Multisession".
I think it is time to experiment. I use K3B myself.
Now that I've installed it on my system (today) I'm going to use it, too!
It is a good day. I learned something new. Why I like this forum.
It has been shown that keeping the mind active helps to prevent Alzheimer's disease. So, it's not only fun, it's healthful!
Mike
On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 13:12 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Thanks for the kind reply. This is good info
I understand the problem and this is an area that takes some learning. I actually made a mistake in one of my posts about fixation. I had it confused with finalization. If a disk is finalized, it cannot be used as a multisession. Fixation is what writes the TOC.
Well, *that* at least makes sense. But I dunno why the name "fixation" would be chosen. It's confusing to have "fixation" and "finalization". Too close in meaning and in sound.
[RANT MODE ON]
BTW, why do we have all these "verb turned into adjective turned into noun" words these days, when there is already a noun associated with the verb? For example, we have the verb "to finish". Why not just "finish" the disc? Why verb "to finish" to adjective "final" turned back into verb "finalize" then to noun "finalization" rather than just use the associated verbal noun "to finish" or "finishing"? This is showing up everywhere. It looks like "administrator speak" to me.
We no longer complete plans, nor do we finish plans, we finalize them. We no longer use "completion", we use "finalization". We don't talk about a project being finished or coming to completion, we talk about "finalizing" it.
Reminds me of Scott Adams and Dilbert!
---- etymology is the science of language and clearly off topic here but a significant portion of the new entries committed to the English language are driven by technology. We all know that the English language is replete with oddities and peculiarities.
If it helps to give precision to the language, then it's definitely worthwhile. I have fixated on your above comments and knowing this list (and you), am certain that it hasn't been finalized.
;-)
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 13:12 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
[snippy, snippy]
[RANT MODE ON] [RANT MODE OFF]
etymology is the science of language and clearly off topic here but a
Rants are either considered *always* on-topic or *always* off-topic in any given forum.
significant portion of the new entries committed to the English language are driven by technology. We all know that the English language is replete with oddities and peculiarities.
I almost majored in linguistics, but finally settled on mathematics for my undergrad degree.
If it helps to give precision to the language, then it's definitely
Indeed, it is. And especially in math one often needs what seems to the outsider excessive precision in writing. But the trend I see today in no way lends additional precision or clarity.
worthwhile. I have fixated on your above comments and knowing this list (and you), am certain that it hasn't been finalized.
;-)
I'll second that!
:-) :-)
Mike
On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 13:12 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Well, *that* at least makes sense. But I dunno why the name "fixation" would be chosen. It's confusing to have "fixation" and "finalization". Too close in meaning and in sound.
Hmm, first time I came across multi-session discs, they were described as "closing" the current session, and "finalising" the disc.
Regarding "finishing" the disc (your rant), Windows *finishes* discs all the time. ;-) It just about finished my interest in computing, too.
-
Christopher K. Johnson -
Craig White -
Edward Dekkers -
Mike McCarty -
peter kostov -
Robin Laing -
Tim