1:05 p.m.
Hi,
I have a question.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:02:30AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
== No Default Sendmail, Syslog ==
In the interests of paring down services that are generally not used
on desktop systems, Fedora 20 removes and replaces some services that
many users find unnecessary from the Live Desktop DVD. They will
remain available as installable packages for users who might need
them.
The systemd journal now takes the place as the default logging
solution for minimal and other selected installation methods, such as
the Live Desktop DVD, having been tested and able to manage persistent
logging in place of syslog.
Also, Sendmail will no longer be installed by default, as most Fedora
installs have no need of a Mail Transfer Agent (MTA).
Does this mean there won't be any system mail (e.g. mail from root, cron
jobs, etc)? I have never really used sendmail, but I always thought
system mail was handled by the default MTA; hence my question.
Thanks,
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
7:50 a.m.
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Robert Moskowitz sent:
what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
Just another mail client.
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
7:25 a.m.
On 12/26/2013 03:49 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
> something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
> running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
>
> Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA
> installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs,
> denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail?
in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail.
so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm
-q mailx
Much prefer mutt to mailx to read local mail.
7:21 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Re: System mail (Fedora 20)
OK. It was Mark, not Lars, that pointed out the logwatch problem.
Is this a logwatch f20 bug to report, or simply 'if you know to install
logwatch, you should know how to configure mail'.
Of course we never had to configure mail in the past to use logwatch,
but that is not logwatch maintainer's problem.
--
Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM
On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 13:39 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:29 +0100
"Lars E. Pettersson" <lars(a)homer.se> wrote:
> On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
>
> Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
>
> As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA,
> mailx without any changes seem to do nothing here.
>
> Lars
The only thing I've changed is set nohold
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
In the file /usr/share/logwatch/default.conf/logwatch.conf on a fresh
install of Fedora 20 I see this line:
mailer = "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t"
Just curious: did everyone go into /etc/logwatch/conf/logwatch.conf and override
this and what did you set it to? Although I don't recall anything in the release
notes about logwatch being replaced by something maybe there's a new package that
replaced it (and therefore one less need for sendmail).
--
Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM
7:16 a.m.
I am joining this thread, as I tripped up on this once I got my old cron
jobs transfered over to this install. I have the following|
$ crontab -l
SHELL=/bin/bash
PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin
MAILTO=me
# For details see man 4 crontabs
# Example of job definition:
# .---------------- minute (0 - 59)
# | .------------- hour (0 - 23)
# | | .---------- day of month (1 - 31)
# | | | .------- month (1 - 12) OR jan,feb,mar,apr ...
# | | | | .---- day of week (0 - 6) (Sunday=0 or 7) OR
sun,mon,tue,wed,thu,fri,sat
# | | | | |
# * * * * * command to be executed
1 3 * * * rsync -tvz ftp.rfc-editor.org::rfcs/*.txt /home/common/ietf/rfcs
1 4 * * * rsync -tvz rsync.tools.ietf.org::tools.id/*.txt
/home/common/ietf/drafts
Gets all the rfs and IDs :) And that is EVERY Internet Draft!
But that MAILTO= line is what causes the problem:
Dec 30 03:26:11 lx120e.htt-consult.com anacron[17136]: Job `cron.daily'
terminated (mailing output)
Dec 30 03:26:11 lx120e.htt-consult.com anacron[17136]: Can't find
sendmail at /usr/sbin/sendmail, not mailing output
Some cron config file is set to use sendmail for the MAILTO= option.
Lars has pointed out that logwatch config is coded to use sendmail.
We have a problem, Huston.
Frank seems to be pointing to a way to have mailx handle local
deliveries, but just pointing me to AIX documentation on .mailrc does
not do it for me. I need a more complete set of instructions:
A howto setup mailx to handle ALL local mail delivery (for system and
users).
If I need an MTA, can I just install postfix and all configs that call
sendmail will instead have postfix handle the mail (seems like things
work that way out-of-the-box with Centos which switched to postfix?).
If I only need an MTA to send local jobs (logwatch, cron, etc.) to a
remote system (that is running a properly configured MTA), are my
choices only sendmail or postfix, or is there something simpler?
thank you
2:46 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:26:32 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 12:24:14PM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100
> Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx
> package exim is not installed
> package sendmail is not installed
> package postfix is not installed
> mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
>
> As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
>
> From: Anacron <root@>
> To: root
> Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
Well you must be doing something different that allows you to do
that. I read my mail directly from /var/spool/mail/<user>. And I
have the following line in /etc/aliases:
# Person who should get root's mail
root: <user>
What do you do to get claws-mail read your mailbox? Just point to
/var/spool/mail/<user>?
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
12:46 p.m.
On 12/26/2013 07:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example. journalctl
has
filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
OK, took 12 seconds (cat /var/log/cron is even faster though :). But
'journalctl -u crond --since today' does not produce the same output as
'journalctl --since today | grep cron' (which more or less resembles
what I have in /var/log/cron). Shouldn't -u crond produce the same
output (more or less) as /var/log/cron?
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson <lars(a)homer.se>
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
9:04 a.m.
--
Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM
Founder, See How You Ski, www.seehowyouski.com
Sr. Project Manager, Allman Professional Consulting, Inc.,
www.allmanpc.com
617-947-4263, Twitter: @allmanpc
Follow allmanpc on Twitter View Mark Allman, PMP, CSM's profile on
LinkedIn
On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 13:39 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:29 +0100
"Lars E. Pettersson" <lars(a)homer.se> wrote:
> On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
>
> Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
>
> As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA,
> mailx without any changes seem to do nothing here.
>
> Lars
The only thing I've changed is set nohold
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
In the file /usr/share/logwatch/default.conf/logwatch.conf on a fresh
install of Fedora 20 I see this line:
mailer = "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t"
Just curious: did everyone go into /etc/logwatch/conf/logwatch.conf and override
this and what did you set it to? Although I don't recall anything in the release
notes about logwatch being replaced by something maybe there's a new package that
replaced it (and therefore one less need for sendmail).
--
Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM
Founder, See How You Ski, www.seehowyouski.com
Sr. Project Manager, Allman Professional Consulting, Inc., www.allmanpc.com
6:35 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:24:14 +0000
Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Forgot a link:
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/pseries/v5r3/index.jsp?topic=/co...
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
6:24 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx
package exim is not installed
package sendmail is not installed
package postfix is not installed
mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
From: Anacron <root@>
To: root
Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
12:32 p.m.
On Dec 26, 2013 10:47 AM, "Lars E. Pettersson" <lars(a)homer.se> wrote:
...
> # time journalctl | grep cron
> ...lots of lines since July 28 (!)...
> real 26m0.921s
> user 10m25.731s
> sys 3m7.579s
> #
> Not that useful. Any idea on how to improve that?
...
> Lars
> --
Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example.
journalctl has
filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
--Pete
4:59 p.m.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 14:01:42 -0800
Mike Wright <mike.wright(a)mailinator.com> wrote:
Sorry for the delay. I was checking out claws-mail...
What I was looking for is how to tell crond to use mailx instead of
sendmail.
You don't need to.
it was always the mail command that done it. (iirc)
http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_38.html
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
1:16 p.m.
On Dec 26, 2013 11:46 AM, "Lars E. Pettersson" <lars(a)homer.se> wrote:
On 12/26/2013 07:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
>
> Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example. journalctl has
> filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
OK, took 12 seconds (cat /var/log/cron is even faster though :). But
'journalctl -u crond --since today' does not produce the same output as
'journalctl --since today | grep cron' (which more or less resembles what I
have in /var/log/cron). Shouldn't -u crond produce the same output (more or
less) as /var/log/cron?
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson <lars(a)homer.se>
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
--
It has been a while since I tested, but I recall one entry for the command
crond was executing, and one entry for STDOUT of that command. If you see
something different, can you share your cronjob and the relevant journal
entries, so I can correct that conception?
--Pete
11:50 a.m.
On 12/26/2013 06:46 PM, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
On my desktop it took 6 seconds, starting July 6, but it had only a
few
lines about the yum-cron problems the last two weeks. So on that
computer I seem to miss a lot of lines in the systemd-log, that is
present in the /var/log/cron file.
Ah, sorry, just realized, just after sending the mail, that I was not
logged in as root. As root those lines appeared, and this was the time
for it, since July 2nd
real 0m26.801s
user 0m9.099s
sys 0m1.731s
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson <lars(a)homer.se>
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
11:46 a.m.
On 12/25/2013 06:56 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100
lee <lee(a)yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes
> to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not
eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less
# time journalctl | grep cron
...lots of lines since July 28 (!)...
real 26m0.921s
user 10m25.731s
sys 3m7.579s
#
Not that useful. Any idea on how to improve that?
On my desktop it took 6 seconds, starting July 6, but it had only a few
lines about the yum-cron problems the last two weeks. So on that
computer I seem to miss a lot of lines in the systemd-log, that is
present in the /var/log/cron file.
Strange things are happening, apparently...
> Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified
to
> accommodate a crippled system?
How is it crippled, it's still logged?
One example. I get mail from cron, using yum-cron, with contents like
the following. How is that handled without a MTA? Never got a response
from Lennart Poettering on the devel list...
/etc/cron.hourly/yum.cron:
Loaded plugins: changelog, dellsysid, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
* fedora: vesta.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
* rpmfusion-free: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-free-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-nonfree: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* updates: vesta.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
No packages marked for update
Loaded plugins: changelog, dellsysid, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
* fedora: ftp.lysator.liu.se
* rpmfusion-free: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-free-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-nonfree: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de
* updates: ftp.lysator.liu.se
No packages marked for update
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson <lars(a)homer.se>
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
2:49 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA
installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs,
denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail?
in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail.
so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
11:56 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100
lee <lee(a)yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes
to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not
eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less
# man journalctl if worried
you can always flag on "warning, fail, etc.."
If you have just installed Fedora from F20+
yum install mta (of choice, if required)
Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified to
accommodate a crippled system?
How is it crippled, it's still logged?
What happens when you have an MTA installed? Will you still not
receive such email?
That depends if you have it setup to receive or not.
What happens when you upgrade? So far, exim still seems to work
after upgrading.
That's because (MTA) hasn't been obsoleted
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
4:30 a.m.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 08:17:37 -0800
Mike Wright <mike.wright(a)mailinator.com> wrote:
Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
Thanx
Do you mean within claws-mail?
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
4:01 p.m.
12/27/2013 02:30 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 08:17:37 -0800
Mike Wright <mike.wright(a)mailinator.com> wrote:
> Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
>
> Thanx
>
Do you mean within claws-mail?
Sorry for the delay. I was checking out claws-mail...
What I was looking for is how to tell crond to use mailx instead of
sendmail.
7:39 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:29 +0100
"Lars E. Pettersson" <lars(a)homer.se> wrote:
On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA,
mailx without any changes seem to do nothing here.
Lars
The only thing I've changed is set nohold
--
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
7:30 a.m.
On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA, mailx
without any changes seem to do nothing here.
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson <lars(a)homer.se>
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
8:18 a.m.
On 12/30/2013 08:50 AM, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Robert Moskowitz sent:
> what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
Just another mail client.
And with a GUI, it seems from the screenshots I've found. For logs and
such, mutt does the job. For my main emails (like this one), I use
Thunderbird.
thanks for clearing this part up.
10:17 a.m.
12/26/2013 12:49 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
> something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
> running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
>
> Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA
> installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs,
> denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail?
in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail.
so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
Thanx
5:52 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:49:23AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
> something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
> running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
>
> Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA
> installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs,
> denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail?
in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail.
so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
I use mutt, so don't have problems reading system mail.
Thank you for confirming, I have removed sendmail now.
Cheers,
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
11:30 p.m.
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
I have a question.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:02:30AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
>
> == No Default Sendmail, Syslog ==
>
> In the interests of paring down services that are generally not used
> on desktop systems, Fedora 20 removes and replaces some services that
> many users find unnecessary from the Live Desktop DVD. They will
> remain available as installable packages for users who might need
> them.
>
> The systemd journal now takes the place as the default logging
> solution for minimal and other selected installation methods, such as
> the Live Desktop DVD, having been tested and able to manage persistent
> logging in place of syslog.
>
> Also, Sendmail will no longer be installed by default, as most Fedora
> installs have no need of a Mail Transfer Agent (MTA).
Does this mean there won't be any system mail (e.g. mail from root, cron
jobs, etc)? I have never really used sendmail, but I always thought
system mail was handled by the default MTA; hence my question.
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes to
send email.
Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified to
accommodate a crippled system?
What happens when you have an MTA installed? Will you still not receive
such email?
What happens when you upgrade? So far, exim still seems to work after
upgrading.
--
Fedora release 20 (Heisenbug)
7:17 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 05:56:58AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100
lee <lee(a)yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes
> to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not
eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less
# man journalctl if worried
you can always flag on "warning, fail, etc.."
If you have just installed Fedora from F20+
yum install mta (of choice, if required)
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed;
do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
Thanks,
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
6:26 p.m.
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 12:24:14PM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx
package exim is not installed
package sendmail is not installed
package postfix is not installed
mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
From: Anacron <root@>
To: root
Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
Well you must be doing something different that allows you to do that.
I read my mail directly from /var/spool/mail/<user>. And I have the
following line in /etc/aliases:
# Person who should get root's mail
root: <user>
What do you do to get claws-mail read your mailbox? Just point to
/var/spool/mail/<user>?
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
6:02 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:52:12PM +0100, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:49:23AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100
> Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss
> > something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is
> > running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
> >
> > Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA
> > installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs,
> > denied hosts, etc?
>
> MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
>
> Can your mua read system mail?
> in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail.
> so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
>
> You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
I use mutt, so don't have problems reading system mail.
Thank you for confirming, I have removed sendmail now.
This doesn't work. I have a nightly cron job (run as root) I'm trying
to debug so I have it output debug information always. I also have an
alias for root mail to me (local user) in /etc/aliases. With sendmail,
this information was mailed to me. Logs tell me last 3 days the job
ran, however I did not receive any of the mails.
I tested interactively by trying to send mail to root using the mail
program; it fails like this:
# mail root
Subject: Testing system mail 2
Hi,
Can you see me?
Cheers,
EOT
/usr/sbin/sendmail: No such file or directory
"/root/dead.letter" 13/241
. . . message not sent.
After I install sendmail again and start the daemon with systemctl, the
above command succeeds and I (regular local user) get the test mail.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
3827
days inactive
3840
days old
27 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Frank Murphy -
Lars E. Pettersson -
lee -
Mark C. Allman -
Mike Wright -
Pete Travis -
Robert Moskowitz -
Suvayu Ali -
Tim