Hi,
I have a question.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:02:30AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
== No Default Sendmail, Syslog ==
In the interests of paring down services that are generally not used on desktop systems, Fedora 20 removes and replaces some services that many users find unnecessary from the Live Desktop DVD. They will remain available as installable packages for users who might need them.
The systemd journal now takes the place as the default logging solution for minimal and other selected installation methods, such as the Live Desktop DVD, having been tested and able to manage persistent logging in place of syslog.
Also, Sendmail will no longer be installed by default, as most Fedora installs have no need of a Mail Transfer Agent (MTA).
Does this mean there won't be any system mail (e.g. mail from root, cron jobs, etc)? I have never really used sendmail, but I always thought system mail was handled by the default MTA; hence my question.
Thanks,
Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com writes:
Hi,
I have a question.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:02:30AM -0500, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
== No Default Sendmail, Syslog ==
In the interests of paring down services that are generally not used on desktop systems, Fedora 20 removes and replaces some services that many users find unnecessary from the Live Desktop DVD. They will remain available as installable packages for users who might need them.
The systemd journal now takes the place as the default logging solution for minimal and other selected installation methods, such as the Live Desktop DVD, having been tested and able to manage persistent logging in place of syslog.
Also, Sendmail will no longer be installed by default, as most Fedora installs have no need of a Mail Transfer Agent (MTA).
Does this mean there won't be any system mail (e.g. mail from root, cron jobs, etc)? I have never really used sendmail, but I always thought system mail was handled by the default MTA; hence my question.
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes to send email.
Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified to accommodate a crippled system?
What happens when you have an MTA installed? Will you still not receive such email?
What happens when you upgrade? So far, exim still seems to work after upgrading.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100 lee lee@yun.yagibdah.de wrote:
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less # man journalctl if worried
you can always flag on "warning, fail, etc.."
If you have just installed Fedora from F20+ yum install mta (of choice, if required)
Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified to accommodate a crippled system?
How is it crippled, it's still logged?
What happens when you have an MTA installed? Will you still not receive such email?
That depends if you have it setup to receive or not.
What happens when you upgrade? So far, exim still seems to work after upgrading.
That's because (MTA) hasn't been obsoleted
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 05:56:58AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100 lee lee@yun.yagibdah.de wrote:
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less # man journalctl if worried
you can always flag on "warning, fail, etc.."
If you have just installed Fedora from F20+ yum install mta (of choice, if required)
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
Thanks,
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail? in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail. so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:49:23AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail? in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail. so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
I use mutt, so don't have problems reading system mail.
Thank you for confirming, I have removed sendmail now.
Cheers,
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:52:12PM +0100, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:49:23AM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail? in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail. so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
I use mutt, so don't have problems reading system mail.
Thank you for confirming, I have removed sendmail now.
This doesn't work. I have a nightly cron job (run as root) I'm trying to debug so I have it output debug information always. I also have an alias for root mail to me (local user) in /etc/aliases. With sendmail, this information was mailed to me. Logs tell me last 3 days the job ran, however I did not receive any of the mails.
I tested interactively by trying to send mail to root using the mail program; it fails like this:
# mail root Subject: Testing system mail 2 Hi,
Can you see me?
Cheers, EOT /usr/sbin/sendmail: No such file or directory "/root/dead.letter" 13/241 . . . message not sent.
After I install sendmail again and start the daemon with systemctl, the above command succeeds and I (regular local user) get the test mail.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx package exim is not installed package sendmail is not installed package postfix is not installed mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
From: Anacron <root@> To: root Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA, mailx without any changes seem to do nothing here.
Lars
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:29 +0100 "Lars E. Pettersson" lars@homer.se wrote:
On 12/29/2013 01:24 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
Have you changed anything in the mailx setup? /etc/mail.rc ?
As far as I can tell I can only get system mail when using an MTA, mailx without any changes seem to do nothing here.
Lars
The only thing I've changed is set nohold
OK. It was Mark, not Lars, that pointed out the logwatch problem.
Is this a logwatch f20 bug to report, or simply 'if you know to install logwatch, you should know how to configure mail'.
Of course we never had to configure mail in the past to use logwatch, but that is not logwatch maintainer's problem.
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 12:24:14PM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx package exim is not installed package sendmail is not installed package postfix is not installed mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
From: Anacron <root@> To: root Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
Well you must be doing something different that allows you to do that. I read my mail directly from /var/spool/mail/<user>. And I have the following line in /etc/aliases:
# Person who should get root's mail root: <user>
What do you do to get claws-mail read your mailbox? Just point to /var/spool/mail/<user>?
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:26:32 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 12:24:14PM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:02:06 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
rpm -q exim sendmail postfix mailx package exim is not installed package sendmail is not installed package postfix is not installed mailx-12.5-10.fc20.x86_64
As I stated mailx allows me to read system-mail in claws-mail.
From: Anacron <root@> To: root Subject: Anacron job 'cron.daily' on frank01.*
Well you must be doing something different that allows you to do that. I read my mail directly from /var/spool/mail/<user>. And I have the following line in /etc/aliases:
# Person who should get root's mail root: <user>
What do you do to get claws-mail read your mailbox? Just point to /var/spool/mail/<user>?
I am joining this thread, as I tripped up on this once I got my old cron jobs transfered over to this install. I have the following|
$ crontab -l SHELL=/bin/bash PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin MAILTO=me
# For details see man 4 crontabs
# Example of job definition: # .---------------- minute (0 - 59) # | .------------- hour (0 - 23) # | | .---------- day of month (1 - 31) # | | | .------- month (1 - 12) OR jan,feb,mar,apr ... # | | | | .---- day of week (0 - 6) (Sunday=0 or 7) OR sun,mon,tue,wed,thu,fri,sat # | | | | | # * * * * * command to be executed 1 3 * * * rsync -tvz ftp.rfc-editor.org::rfcs/*.txt /home/common/ietf/rfcs 1 4 * * * rsync -tvz rsync.tools.ietf.org::tools.id/*.txt /home/common/ietf/drafts
Gets all the rfs and IDs :) And that is EVERY Internet Draft!
But that MAILTO= line is what causes the problem:
Dec 30 03:26:11 lx120e.htt-consult.com anacron[17136]: Job `cron.daily' terminated (mailing output) Dec 30 03:26:11 lx120e.htt-consult.com anacron[17136]: Can't find sendmail at /usr/sbin/sendmail, not mailing output
Some cron config file is set to use sendmail for the MAILTO= option.
Lars has pointed out that logwatch config is coded to use sendmail.
We have a problem, Huston.
Frank seems to be pointing to a way to have mailx handle local deliveries, but just pointing me to AIX documentation on .mailrc does not do it for me. I need a more complete set of instructions:
A howto setup mailx to handle ALL local mail delivery (for system and users).
If I need an MTA, can I just install postfix and all configs that call sendmail will instead have postfix handle the mail (seems like things work that way out-of-the-box with Centos which switched to postfix?).
If I only need an MTA to send local jobs (logwatch, cron, etc.) to a remote system (that is running a properly configured MTA), are my choices only sendmail or postfix, or is there something simpler?
thank you
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:24:14 +0000 Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
Forgot a link: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/pseries/v5r3/index.jsp?topic=/com.i...
12/26/2013 12:49 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail? in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail. so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
Thanx
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 08:17:37 -0800 Mike Wright mike.wright@mailinator.com wrote:
Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
Thanx
Do you mean within claws-mail?
12/27/2013 02:30 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 08:17:37 -0800 Mike Wright mike.wright@mailinator.com wrote:
Where does one specify that mailx should be used?
Thanx
Do you mean within claws-mail?
Sorry for the delay. I was checking out claws-mail...
What I was looking for is how to tell crond to use mailx instead of sendmail.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 14:01:42 -0800 Mike Wright mike.wright@mailinator.com wrote:
Sorry for the delay. I was checking out claws-mail...
What I was looking for is how to tell crond to use mailx instead of sendmail.
You don't need to. it was always the mail command that done it. (iirc) http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_38.html
On 12/26/2013 03:49 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:17:17 +0100 Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com wrote:
I know I can always look in the logs, but I would probably miss something if I have to do this manually for every daemon that is running. It is much simpler to monitor this through system mail.
Hence, I would like to know what happens if there is no MTA installed; do I still get system mail notifying me of cron jobs, denied hosts, etc?
MTA is not necessary on a "single" box.
Can your mua read system mail? in claws-mail I added an account for system-mail. so cron, logwatch journalctl etc. come to my inbox\subfolders.
what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
You should still have the old "mail (mailx)" installed rpm -q mailx
Much prefer mutt to mailx to read local mail.
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Robert Moskowitz sent:
what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
Just another mail client.
On 12/30/2013 08:50 AM, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Robert Moskowitz sent:
what is claws-mail? I do not see it installed by default.
Just another mail client.
And with a GUI, it seems from the screenshots I've found. For logs and such, mutt does the job. For my main emails (like this one), I use Thunderbird.
thanks for clearing this part up.
On 12/25/2013 06:56 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:30:22 +0100 lee lee@yun.yagibdah.de wrote:
A system cannot correctly function without a way for such processes to send email.
Yes, they can. Cron can work whether you know about it or not eg. "journalctl | grep cron | less
# time journalctl | grep cron ...lots of lines since July 28 (!)...
real 26m0.921s user 10m25.731s sys 3m7.579s #
Not that useful. Any idea on how to improve that?
On my desktop it took 6 seconds, starting July 6, but it had only a few lines about the yum-cron problems the last two weeks. So on that computer I seem to miss a lot of lines in the systemd-log, that is present in the /var/log/cron file.
Strange things are happening, apparently...
Has all the software that (potentially) sends email been modified to accommodate a crippled system?
How is it crippled, it's still logged?
One example. I get mail from cron, using yum-cron, with contents like the following. How is that handled without a MTA? Never got a response from Lennart Poettering on the devel list...
/etc/cron.hourly/yum.cron:
Loaded plugins: changelog, dellsysid, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * fedora: vesta.informatik.rwth-aachen.de * rpmfusion-free: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-free-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-nonfree: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * updates: vesta.informatik.rwth-aachen.de No packages marked for update Loaded plugins: changelog, dellsysid, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * fedora: ftp.lysator.liu.se * rpmfusion-free: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-free-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-nonfree: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de * updates: ftp.lysator.liu.se No packages marked for update
Lars
On 12/26/2013 06:46 PM, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
On my desktop it took 6 seconds, starting July 6, but it had only a few lines about the yum-cron problems the last two weeks. So on that computer I seem to miss a lot of lines in the systemd-log, that is present in the /var/log/cron file.
Ah, sorry, just realized, just after sending the mail, that I was not logged in as root. As root those lines appeared, and this was the time for it, since July 2nd
real 0m26.801s user 0m9.099s sys 0m1.731s
Lars
On Dec 26, 2013 10:47 AM, "Lars E. Pettersson" lars@homer.se wrote:
...
# time journalctl | grep cron ...lots of lines since July 28 (!)...
real 26m0.921s user 10m25.731s sys 3m7.579s #
Not that useful. Any idea on how to improve that?
...
Lars
Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example. journalctl has filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
--Pete
On 12/26/2013 07:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example. journalctl has filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
OK, took 12 seconds (cat /var/log/cron is even faster though :). But 'journalctl -u crond --since today' does not produce the same output as 'journalctl --since today | grep cron' (which more or less resembles what I have in /var/log/cron). Shouldn't -u crond produce the same output (more or less) as /var/log/cron?
Lars
On Dec 26, 2013 11:46 AM, "Lars E. Pettersson" lars@homer.se wrote:
On 12/26/2013 07:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
Try `journalctl -u crond --since today` for example. journalctl has filtering options built in, the man page is worth skimming.
OK, took 12 seconds (cat /var/log/cron is even faster though :). But
'journalctl -u crond --since today' does not produce the same output as 'journalctl --since today | grep cron' (which more or less resembles what I have in /var/log/cron). Shouldn't -u crond produce the same output (more or less) as /var/log/cron?
Lars
Lars E. Pettersson lars@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ --
It has been a while since I tested, but I recall one entry for the command crond was executing, and one entry for STDOUT of that command. If you see something different, can you share your cronjob and the relevant journal entries, so I can correct that conception?
--Pete
-
Frank Murphy -
Lars E. Pettersson -
lee -
Mark C. Allman -
Mike Wright -
Pete Travis -
Robert Moskowitz -
Suvayu Ali -
Tim