10 a.m.
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of them
will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
I just thought of asking here this morning.
I have prepared a handout with most of the common Linux sites including
sites for various distributions (Fedora is at the top of the list).
Googled *Linux* to find a start site to recommend. Found lots of sites,
but, you know, there wasn't one really exciting, sales oriented
(motivational) site that says "I really got to find out about or try
this operating system".
Do you know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this
type of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
pitch tonight?
--
Regards Bill
1:29 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 22:11:31 PM -0500, Marc (linuxr(a)gmail.com) wrote:
Please do not top post and above all do not repost a whole message
just to add one line, no matter where. Thanks from those with slow
connections and/or without a flat rate connection.
This said, please note that the website you suggest is one of a
company which offers professional linux migration services from
professionals to professionals (companies). Likely an excellent
company, but NOT what the original request was about.
Ciao,
Marco
--
Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Free Software!
http://digifreedom.net/node/84
10:11 p.m.
linuxmigration.com
On 10/29/07, M. Fioretti <mfioretti(a)nexaima.net> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 12:49:34 PM -0700, Les (hlhowell(a)pacbell.net)
wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 17:42 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:
> >
> > Considering the audience you described, I'll also dare to suggest
> > that, before going to the talk, you read my "Seven Things we're
> > tired of hearing from software hackers" at
> > http://digifreedom.net/node/56 : while it's not about Linux
> > specifically, it may help you to not spend too much time
> > presenting to your audience arguments that are really NO relevant
> > for them.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Marco Fioretti
> Only one comment, Marco,
> Actually more people program than ever before.
Strictly speaking, yes, but are they meaningful? Of course, more
people "program" now than in the preindustrial era, it couldn't be
different today. Going by your definition, every cell phone user is a
programmer.
But this doesn't mean that they see at all the underlying issues and
care in the slightest about them. This is still a world and age where
most VCRs clocks still blink at 12:00. Where people who have been
using personal computers for many years still tell you "to save the
file, click on that small TV picture up there" or, to see a landscape
picture in portrait mode during a slideshow, turn their laptop
sideways (yes, these are both real things that I or my wife witnessed
personally).
So the limits I mention still apply: the overwhelming majority of
those "programmers" simply doesn't really understand what they are
doing, no matter how cool and savy they may look, and they'll never
sync in on the usual pro-FOSS arguments (the "seven things") that were
enough to convert software users of the 80's.
Actually, I also fear that this complacency that I've already noticed
in many FOSS activists may be one of the biggest obstacles and dangers
in making FOSS really mainstream: "hey, look at how many computers and
other processors (clocks, TVs, cell phones) all the folks around me
have and use daily: it's obvious that we're all geeks by now and that
this makes triumph of FOSS unavoidable".
Ciao,
Marco
--
Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Free Software!
http://digifreedom.net
--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list(a)redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
10:07 a.m.
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, William Case wrote:
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of
them will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
you need to be more informative here. what kind of people are
these?
* just windows users who are curious about linux? or,
* possible clients that you're trying to convince to use linux?
that makes a big difference in how you should slant your talk, i
would think.
put another way, once your talk is over, does it affect you or your
pocketbook in any way whether you've convinced anyone? :-)
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca
========================================================================
2:49 p.m.
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 17:42 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 11:00:35 AM -0400, William Case
(billlinux(a)rogers.com) wrote:
> Hi;
>
> This question is good for one day only.
Hope I'm still on time then!
> I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of
> them will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.... Do you
> know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this type
> of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
> pitch tonight?
First of all, I would suggest http://www.reallylinux.com/
"International Site for Linux Beginners"
Warning now, self-promotion ahead!
Considering the audience you described, I'll also dare to suggest
that, before going to the talk, you read my "Seven Things we're tired
of hearing from software hackers" at http://digifreedom.net/node/56 :
while it's not about Linux specifically, it may help you to not spend
too much time presenting to your audience arguments that are really
NO relevant for them.
Hope this helps,
Marco Fioretti
Only one comment, Marco,
Actually more people program than ever before. It is just that arcane
languages do not attract them, nor does hardly anyone learn or want to
learn assembly language. However, many people create list managers,
databases in some form, spreadsheets, even use interfaces with word
processors to create various forms of HTML and XHTML code. They often
don't know programming is actually what they are doing, but that is
because the continuing evolution of software and hardware mask the nasty
underlying details.
It is this same form that is driving the development of gui-implemented
object oriented development such as JAVA. Some interesting effects are
just beginning to grow out of the decades of AI and Neural Net
developments, and these, too will have revolutionizing effects on the
computer world, although the revolution and evolution is apparently slow
right now, just keep watching.
Add Mems, Optical computing, 3d interfaces and virtual reality, and the
scope really opens up. There are millions on Second life, each of whom
created an avatar, many of whom have added special effects to their
avatars, some by purchasing them, some by tailoring existing code and
others by coding from scratch in Linden Script.
Another developing environment is interactive community development.
Check out the last three years of development on Croquet to get some
idea of a full 3-D interactive cooperative development environment, from
music, to artful creations, the scale of development is mind boggling.
Yes, most people don't "program" in the sense of sitting down, drawing
up dependency diagrams, interviewing users, and doing a full march
development project (come to think of it, how many such projects even
exist without the bit bangers getting something interesting going by
guess and by golly first?)
The whole thing is more complex than that. True not everyone is a
hacker in driver or OS code, but most people do run programs, if only to
get their kids to pick up their rooms. They just don't realize it, and
so it is heading with computers.
Stay tuned...
Regards,
Les H
2:45 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 11:00:35AM -0400, William Case wrote:
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
Do you know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this
type of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
pitch tonight?
http://www.goodbyemicrosoft.net/news.php
--
Charles Curley /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software \ / Respect for open standards
and/or writing? X No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com / \ No M$ Word docs in email
Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0 809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB
11:42 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 11:00:35 AM -0400, William Case (billlinux(a)rogers.com) wrote:
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
Hope I'm still on time then!
I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of
them will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.... Do you
know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this type
of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
pitch tonight?
First of all, I would suggest http://www.reallylinux.com/
"International Site for Linux Beginners"
Warning now, self-promotion ahead!
Considering the audience you described, I'll also dare to suggest
that, before going to the talk, you read my "Seven Things we're tired
of hearing from software hackers" at http://digifreedom.net/node/56 :
while it's not about Linux specifically, it may help you to not spend
too much time presenting to your audience arguments that are really
NO relevant for them.
Hope this helps,
Marco Fioretti
--
Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend on
how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/node/84
4:22 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 12:49:34 PM -0700, Les (hlhowell(a)pacbell.net) wrote:
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 17:42 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:
>
> Considering the audience you described, I'll also dare to suggest
> that, before going to the talk, you read my "Seven Things we're
> tired of hearing from software hackers" at
> http://digifreedom.net/node/56 : while it's not about Linux
> specifically, it may help you to not spend too much time
> presenting to your audience arguments that are really NO relevant
> for them.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Marco Fioretti
Only one comment, Marco,
Actually more people program than ever before.
Strictly speaking, yes, but are they meaningful? Of course, more
people "program" now than in the preindustrial era, it couldn't be
different today. Going by your definition, every cell phone user is a
programmer.
But this doesn't mean that they see at all the underlying issues and
care in the slightest about them. This is still a world and age where
most VCRs clocks still blink at 12:00. Where people who have been
using personal computers for many years still tell you "to save the
file, click on that small TV picture up there" or, to see a landscape
picture in portrait mode during a slideshow, turn their laptop
sideways (yes, these are both real things that I or my wife witnessed
personally).
So the limits I mention still apply: the overwhelming majority of
those "programmers" simply doesn't really understand what they are
doing, no matter how cool and savy they may look, and they'll never
sync in on the usual pro-FOSS arguments (the "seven things") that were
enough to convert software users of the 80's.
Actually, I also fear that this complacency that I've already noticed
in many FOSS activists may be one of the biggest obstacles and dangers
in making FOSS really mainstream: "hey, look at how many computers and
other processors (clocks, TVs, cell phones) all the folks around me
have and use daily: it's obvious that we're all geeks by now and that
this makes triumph of FOSS unavoidable".
Ciao,
Marco
--
Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Free Software!
http://digifreedom.net
3:04 p.m.
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
>
> This question is good for one day only.
>
> I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of
> them will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
you need to be more informative here. what kind of people are
these?
* just windows users who are curious about linux? or,
* possible clients that you're trying to convince to use linux?
that makes a big difference in how you should slant your talk, i
would think.
put another way, once your talk is over, does it affect you or your
pocketbook in any way whether you've convinced anyone? :-)
rday
If you are trying to sell Linux, I would take a clean computer and
install PCLinux or Ubuntu while making the talk. Show them a fresh
install and all the tools and applications that are included. Hopefully
with full Compiz support.
Hands on is the best teacher.
Good luck.
--
Robin Laing
1:41 p.m.
Thanks Charles:
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:27 -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 11:00:35AM -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
I would recommend http://www.linuxchix.org/, in spite of the sexist
name and introductory paragraph. They tend to have clear, low-jargon
write-ups, just the thing for a new user.
Took your suggestion and looked at the site. It's good. And a bit of fun
for my audience. I am going to include it.
You mentioned elsewhere that this is for your Toastmasters chapter. A
lot of Toastmasters use slide presentations; you might mention OOo
Presentation and some of the other slide preparation tools available.
I am.
--
Regards Bill
1:41 p.m.
On 10/29/07, William Case <billlinux(a)rogers.com> wrote:
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of them
will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
I just thought of asking here this morning.
I have prepared a handout with most of the common Linux sites including
sites for various distributions (Fedora is at the top of the list).
Googled *Linux* to find a start site to recommend. Found lots of sites,
but, you know, there wasn't one really exciting, sales oriented
(motivational) site that says "I really got to find out about or try
this operating system".
Do you know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this
type of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
pitch tonight?
--
Regards Bill
When I first used Linux the web search landed at http://www.linux.org/
It is a starting point. Which sites did you visit and/or not like?
1:27 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 11:00:35AM -0400, William Case wrote:
Hi;
Do you know of a site I could recommend as a starting place for this
type of Windows audience that I could I could use in my little sales
pitch tonight?
I would recommend http://www.linuxchix.org/, in spite of the sexist
name and introductory paragraph. They tend to have clear, low-jargon
write-ups, just the thing for a new user.
You mentioned elsewhere that this is for your Toastmasters chapter. A
lot of Toastmasters use slide presentations; you might mention OOo
Presentation and some of the other slide preparation tools available.
--
Charles Curley /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software \ / Respect for open standards
and/or writing? X No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com / \ No M$ Word docs in email
Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0 809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB
10:33 a.m.
Hi Robert;
Good questions.
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 11:07 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
>
> This question is good for one day only.
>
> I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about Linux. All of
> them will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
you need to be more informative here. what kind of people are
these?
They are friends and members of a non-computer group I belong to. I
have talked to them about my adventures with Linux. They asked that I
take 10 - 12 minutes at the next meeting (tonight) to tell them about
Linux. The group is a Toastmasters group, but the speech is by request
not because it is an assigned project. I want to do it right.
* just windows users who are curious about linux? or,
Yes. The audience is split between people in their mid-20s to mid-30s
and those over 50 years of age.
* possible clients that you're trying to convince to use linux?
that makes a big difference in how you should slant your talk, i
would think.
Yes it does make a big difference. Who knows what the future holds?
put another way, once your talk is over, does it affect you or
your
pocketbook in any way whether you've convinced anyone? :-)
No. Not in a short-term concrete way. Although I am building myself a
bit of a guru reputation with my peers (the over 50 part of the group)
--undeserved as that may be-- which for vanity reasons I would like to
keep.
--
Regards Bill
10:21 a.m.
--- William Case <billlinux(a)rogers.com> wrote:
Hi;
This question is good for one day only.
I am giving a talk tonight to about 20 people about
Linux. All of them
will be Windows users and all will be very non-tech.
I just thought of asking here this morning.
I have prepared a handout with most of the common
Linux sites including
sites for various distributions (Fedora is at the
top of the list).
Googled *Linux* to find a start site to recommend.
Found lots of sites,
but, you know, there wasn't one really exciting,
sales oriented
(motivational) site that says "I really got to find
out about or try
this operating system".
Do you know of a site I could recommend as a
starting place for this
type of Windows audience that I could I could use in
my little sales
pitch tonight?
--
Regards Bill
--
Do you have
Distrowatch.com?
http://www.linuxquestions.org/?
There are many out there. Fedora Forum, Fedora Faq,
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f7.html
Regards,
Antonio
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
10:43 a.m.
Thanks Antonio;
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 08:21 -0700, Antonio Olivares wrote:
--- William Case <billlinux(a)rogers.com> wrote:
> I just thought of asking here this morning.
>
> I have prepared a handout with most of the common
> Linux sites including
> sites for various distributions (Fedora is at the
> top of the list).
>
Do you have
Distrowatch.com?
http://www.linuxquestions.org/?
I have that and several other mailing lists and forums on my
recommendations list.
There are many out there. Fedora Forum, Fedora Faq,
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f7.html
This last site was a new one to me. I am saving it for my own use.
I am still looking for that "mmm?" spicy little tidbit of a site that
will just set the meal up right.
--
Regards Bill
8:28 a.m.
Marc wrote:
this is why i stay off of these stupid lists
Marco's request was perfectly reasonable, it's one made by many people
over time.
Until recently, I was on dialup, and (I later discovered) downloading 3
Gbytes/month. I've been known to get quite short with twits who
over-quote, who post in HTML and who attach pictures to their email. I'm
sure that one or more of the links in my sig address the matter.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
You cannot reply off-list:-)
7:39 a.m.
Marc wrote:
this is why i stay off of these stupid lists
You are on one of them now.
you can't please the primadonnas, its a great site regardless,
for a beginner
GFYS
All you were asked is to please do not top comment. And this list is not the best for a
real novice.
Karl
On Oct 31, 2007 1:29 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti(a)nexaima.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 22:11:31 PM -0500, Marc (linuxr(a)gmail.com) wrote:
>
>
>> linuxmigration.com
>>
> Please do not top post and above all do not repost a whole message
> just to add one line, no matter where. Thanks from those with slow
> connections and/or without a flat rate connection.
>
> This said, please note that the website you suggest is one of a
> company which offers professional linux migration services from
> professionals to professionals (companies). Likely an excellent
> company, but NOT what the original request was about.
>
> Ciao,
> Marco
> --
> Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Free Software!
> http://digifreedom.net/node/84
>
> --
>
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list(a)redhat.com
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
>
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40
7:30 a.m.
this is why i stay off of these stupid lists
you can't please the primadonnas, its a great site regardless, for a beginner
GFYS
On Oct 31, 2007 1:29 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti(a)nexaima.net> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 22:11:31 PM -0500, Marc (linuxr(a)gmail.com)
wrote:
> linuxmigration.com
Please do not top post and above all do not repost a whole message
just to add one line, no matter where. Thanks from those with slow
connections and/or without a flat rate connection.
This said, please note that the website you suggest is one of a
company which offers professional linux migration services from
professionals to professionals (companies). Likely an excellent
company, but NOT what the original request was about.
Ciao,
Marco
--
Help *everybody* love Free Standards and Free Software!
http://digifreedom.net/node/84
--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list(a)redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
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17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Antonio Olivares -
Bill Case -
Charles Curley -
Howard Howell -
John Summerfield -
Kam Leo -
Karl Larsen -
M. Fioretti -
Marc M -
Robert P. J. Day -
Robin Laing