Re: No Minimize Button

[Mike Flannigan]

On 6/5/2011 1:52 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> It was a design decision in Gnome 3 (aka Gnome Shell) that involves
> some controversy. There are many many threads filled with lots of
> debate about it. If you want to know more, mine the mailing list
> archives. There are substitute methods to work with the desktop that
> require some adaptation of your work-flow (dragging windows the the
> edges of the screen, using overview mode with the hot corner,
> abandoning a desktop background with stuff on it).
>
> But the long and short of it is, if you want the buttons (and more)
> back, just install gnome-tweak-tool and pick the right options to
> re-enable them.
>
> /Mike

Thank you.  It worked well.

I've been using the list archives for almost
all my troubleshooting.  I am very interested
in seeing that discussion, but I have not
been able to find it yet.  Still looking.
 From my perspective I can't imagine anybody
thinking that is a good idea.

http://marc.info/?l=fedora-list&w=4&r=2&s=Gnome+3&q=b

Mike

No Minimize Button

[Matias Kreder]

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mike Flannigan  wrote:
> On 6/5/2011 1:52 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> It was a design decision in Gnome 3 (aka Gnome Shell) that involves
> some controversy. There are many many threads filled with lots of
> debate about it. If you want to know more, mine the mailing list
> archives. There are substitute methods to work with the desktop that
> require some adaptation of your work-flow (dragging windows the the
> edges of the screen, using overview mode with the hot corner,
> abandoning a desktop background with stuff on it).
>
> But the long and short of it is, if you want the buttons (and more)
> back, just install gnome-tweak-tool and pick the right options to
> re-enable them.
>
> /Mike
>
> Thank you.  It worked well.
>
> I've been using the list archives for almost
> all my troubleshooting.  I am very interested
> in seeing that discussion, but I have not
> been able to find it yet.  Still looking.
> From my perspective I can't imagine anybody
> thinking that is a good idea.
>
> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-list&w=4&r=2&s=Gnome+3&q=b
>
> Mike

How we can take this discussion further? No minimize button is not the
only problem.
* No desktop icons
* No right click on desktop to set wallpaper
* Suspend as default option.
* Alt+tab with grouped windows take a long time, if I have to switch
between windows rapidly, I have to do alt+tab then down arrow, then
right or left arrow.
* And many others...

So many changes! I know that we should be positive and keep improving
but my concern is that the average user needs this things and in order
to enable them they need to install gconf-editor or other things that
require some knowledge.

I tried and tried, then I switched to KDE which I still don't like it.
I know that I can try XFCE or LXDE but I'm a GNOME2 fan.

Matias

No Minimize Button

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Wednesday 06 July 2011 23:41:25 Matias Kreder wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mike Flannigan  wrote:
> > On 6/5/2011 1:52 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> > It was a design decision in Gnome 3 (aka Gnome Shell) that involves
> > some controversy. There are many many threads filled with lots of
> > debate about it. If you want to know more, mine the mailing list
> > archives. There are substitute methods to work with the desktop that
> > require some adaptation of your work-flow (dragging windows the the
> > edges of the screen, using overview mode with the hot corner,
> > abandoning a desktop background with stuff on it).
>
> How we can take this discussion further? No minimize button is not the
> only problem.

It's not a problem at all, it is a feature, didn't you know? ;-)
> No desktop icons

This is a feature.
> No right click on desktop to set wallpaper

This is a feature.
> Suspend as default option.

This is a feature.
> Alt+tab with grouped windows take a long time, if I have to switch
>
> between windows rapidly, I have to do alt+tab then down arrow, then
> right or left arrow.

Oh, and this is a particularly good feature! ;-)
> And many others...

Well, as you can see, Gnome 3 is full of new features! Doesn't everybody enjoy 
them so much, you just can't help loving such a feature-full DE, right? ;-)
> So many changes! I know that we should be positive and keep improving
> but my concern is that the average user needs this things and in order
> to enable them they need to install gconf-editor or other things that
> require some knowledge.
>
> I tried and tried, then I switched to KDE which I still don't like it.
> I know that I can try XFCE or LXDE but I'm a GNOME2 fan.

There will be no more Gnome 2. You have to switch to another DE, and relearn 
it from scratch, including the appropriate adjustment of your usual workflow. 
Your main choices for the new DE are: KDE, XFCE, LXDE and Gnome 3.

As I understand, switching from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 is as painful as switching 
from Gnome 2 to KDE or any other DE. The only thing that v3 has in common with 
v2 is the name "Gnome" attached to it (roughly speaking), but in general it is 
a completely different and new DE.

So Gnome 2 is gone, and you are essentially forced to switch. Choose your new 
DE wisely... ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko

P.S. I'm a happy long-term KDE user, who installed Gnome 3 just to see what 
all the fuss is about. And then I saw... My condolences to everyone who is 
still using it. ;-)

No Minimize Button

[Joe Zeff]

On 07/06/2011 05:44 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> There will be no more Gnome 2. You have to switch to another DE, and relearn
> it from scratch, including the appropriate adjustment of your usual workflow.
> Your main choices for the new DE are: KDE, XFCE, LXDE and Gnome 3.

I went with XFCE, and Compiz.  (Not that I had to set it that way, XFCE 
just used it when it found that that's what I'd been using with Gnome.) 
  Once I got my icons back in the order and position that I had before, 
there was almost no learning curve, no "adjusting my work flow."  Almost 
everything works just like it did before, and I've found replacements 
for the one or two things that Just Don't Work.

No Minimize Button

[L]

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 07/06/2011 05:44 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > There will be no more Gnome 2. You have to switch to another DE, and relearn
> > it from scratch, including the appropriate adjustment of your usual workflow.
> > Your main choices for the new DE are: KDE, XFCE, LXDE and Gnome 3.
>
> I went with XFCE, and Compiz.  (Not that I had to set it that way, XFCE
> just used it when it found that that's what I'd been using with Gnome.)
>  Once I got my icons back in the order and position that I had before,
> there was almost no learning curve, no "adjusting my work flow."  Almost
> everything works just like it did before, and I've found replacements
> for the one or two things that Just Don't Work.
> --

check out here

http://linuxishbell.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/bring-back-missing-functionalit...

you can bring some functionalities back.
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> [e-mail]
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No Minimize Button

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

> > But the long and short of it is, if you want the buttons (and more)
> > back, just install gnome-tweak-tool and pick the right options to
> > re-enable them.

...
> > I've been using the list archives for almost
> > all my troubleshooting.� I am very interested
> > in seeing that discussion, but I have not
> > been able to find it yet.� Still looking.
> >  From my perspective I can't imagine anybody
> > thinking that is a good idea.

I originally thought omitting the minimize button was crazy, but after 
using gnome3 for a month or so, I don't miss it at all. gnome3 has a 
different way of doing things; give it time. If you can "swoosh" into 
the activities area to rapidly select a different window, having a 
minimize button doesn't really make sense (or at least, it is redundant 
- and gnome has always opted for simplification over extra flexibility).

I also originally hated the default fonts, but I like them now - but I 
had to enable "Large Text" in the Accessibility button at the top.

I'm not sure about the task-switching method, though. I'm having a hard 
time using the alt+tab / alt+backtick combo naturally. I think it could 
be improved.

My 2 cents.

- Mike

No Minimize Button

[Ian Malone]

On 7 July 2011 12:51, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak  wrote:
> > > But the long and short of it is, if you want the buttons (and more)
> > > back, just install gnome-tweak-tool and pick the right options to
> > > re-enable them.
>
> ...
> > > I've been using the list archives for almost
> > > all my troubleshooting.� I am very interested
> > > in seeing that discussion, but I have not
> > > been able to find it yet.� Still looking.
> > >  From my perspective I can't imagine anybody
> > > thinking that is a good idea.
>
> I originally thought omitting the minimize button was crazy, but after
> using gnome3 for a month or so, I don't miss it at all. gnome3 has a
> different way of doing things; give it time. If you can "swoosh" into
> the activities area to rapidly select a different window, having a
> minimize button doesn't really make sense (or at least, it is redundant
> and gnome has always opted for simplification over extra flexibility).

My take on this is there's a finite amount of screen space and I quite
often have a set of windows open. If for some reason I need a large or
maximised one (and a large one is more problematic in this respect)
then it will obscure a 'shared space' layout of windows. To get that
open set of windows back you need to either:
1. Bring them all back one at a time (either activity window or
alt-tab them back)
or
2. Move the obscuring window to a new workspace. But this might not be
the correct place for it; you may be using it with the current
workspace, but not able to effectively share the space between this
and the other windows.

Also the other need for minimisation to prevent someone seeing what
you're working on is not at all addressed. Possiblities: work
involving confidential information, buying presents, demonstrating to
someone that you're giving them your attention/stopping windows
distracting people during conversaitons. While there's no longer a
panel that things get minimised to, the 'minimise' button is
effectively a hide-window operation that has several roles that aren't
really provided in Gnome3. Unless you put it back of course.

No Minimize Button

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

> Also the other need for minimisation to prevent someone seeing what
> you're working on is not at all addressed. Possiblities: work
> involving confidential information, buying presents, demonstrating to
> someone that you're giving them your attention/stopping windows
> distracting people during conversaitons. While there's no longer a
> panel that things get minimised to, the 'minimise' button is
> effectively a hide-window operation that has several roles that aren't
> really provided in Gnome3. Unless you put it back of course.

You can also right-click on the title bar, and minimize is the first 
choice. It's "almost" as easy as a dedicated button, once you're aware 
of it.

- Mike

No Minimize Button

[Gary Artim]

i think double clicking the title bar toggles from min to max or max
to min depending on your current orientation...g.)

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak
 wrote:
> > Also the other need for minimisation to prevent someone seeing what
> > you're working on is not at all addressed. Possiblities: work
> > involving confidential information, buying presents, demonstrating to
> > someone that you're giving them your attention/stopping windows
> > distracting people during conversaitons. While there's no longer a
> > panel that things get minimised to, the 'minimise' button is
> > effectively a hide-window operation that has several roles that aren't
> > really provided in Gnome3. Unless you put it back of course.
>
> You can also right-click on the title bar, and minimize is the first
> choice. It's "almost" as easy as a dedicated button, once you're aware
> of it.
> Mike
>
> --
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