Hey..
long time lurker.
every now and then a thread will evolve, with multiple inputs over time.
in some cases, someone will "say" -- don't top post!
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
quick search, didn't find anything yet, so thought I'd post here as well. Any solutions to this that you guys have seen/implemented?
thanks
Am 26.04.2025 um 06:31:51 Uhr schrieb bruce:
every now and then a thread will evolve, with multiple inputs over time.
in some cases, someone will "say" -- don't top post!
Top-posting is annoying because the content is not at the right place. This is essential especially for longer discussions.
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
quick search, didn't find anything yet, so thought I'd post here as well. Any solutions to this that you guys have seen/implemented?
Gmail and most other web mailers (also some desktop clients) are just crap for participating in mailing lists. Get a real mail software like Claws Mail or Thunderbird and connect to gmail with that.
Sorry.. that's not happening..
gmail will continue to be used.. in fact, it's used by quite a few people around the world.
i get what you're saying though..
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 6:35 AM Marco Moock mm@dorfdsl.de wrote:
Am 26.04.2025 um 06:31:51 Uhr schrieb bruce:
every now and then a thread will evolve, with multiple inputs over time.
in some cases, someone will "say" -- don't top post!
Top-posting is annoying because the content is not at the right place. This is essential especially for longer discussions.
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
quick search, didn't find anything yet, so thought I'd post here as well. Any solutions to this that you guys have seen/implemented?
Gmail and most other web mailers (also some desktop clients) are just crap for participating in mailing lists. Get a real mail software like Claws Mail or Thunderbird and connect to gmail with that.
-- Gruß Marco
Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1745641911muell@cartoonies.org
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Am 26.04.2025 um 06:45:15 Uhr schrieb bruce:
Sorry.. that's not happening..
gmail will continue to be used.. in fact, it's used by quite a few people around the world.
Most of them don't take part in mailing lists. If they do, they might get bullied away as others (especially "grey-bearded" technicians) are not that happy with the gmail user's communication style.
well.. I think your using the bully term is most appropriate! but not too welcoming if u want linux to spread to others! but im not trying to fight that battle.. the world is waaaay too screwed up for that!
thanks
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 6:48 AM Marco Moock mm@dorfdsl.de wrote:
Am 26.04.2025 um 06:45:15 Uhr schrieb bruce:
Sorry.. that's not happening..
gmail will continue to be used.. in fact, it's used by quite a few people around the world.
Most of them don't take part in mailing lists. If they do, they might get bullied away as others (especially "grey-bearded" technicians) are not that happy with the gmail user's communication style.
-- Gruß Marco
Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1745642715muell@cartoonies.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 6:35 AM Marco Moock mm@dorfdsl.de wrote:
Am 26.04.2025 um 06:31:51 Uhr schrieb bruce:
every now and then a thread will evolve, with multiple inputs over time.
in some cases, someone will "say" -- don't top post!
Top-posting is annoying because the content is not at the right place. This is essential especially for longer discussions.
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
quick search, didn't find anything yet, so thought I'd post here as well. Any solutions to this that you guys have seen/implemented?
Gmail and most other web mailers (also some desktop clients) are just crap for participating in mailing lists. Get a real mail software like Claws Mail or Thunderbird and connect to gmail with that.
One of the most important reasons I use Gmail is because it supports multi-factor authentication (mfa). MFA is great at helping keeping an account secure. Consider, the IETF has never updated SMPT, IMAP or POP to include MFA workflows.
For me, the choice had nothing to do with composition features. And to point out the obvious... top posting is a choice by the user. It is not a property of a mail client.
Jeff
hi Jeff.
thanks. as far as I can tell. and it could be user err!! one can reply at top or end. I haven't found a way within a msg to insert comments at a given point of a thread? let me know if there's a way!
thanks
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 7:20 AM Jeffrey Walton noloader@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 6:35 AM Marco Moock mm@dorfdsl.de wrote:
Am 26.04.2025 um 06:31:51 Uhr schrieb bruce:
every now and then a thread will evolve, with multiple inputs over time.
in some cases, someone will "say" -- don't top post!
Top-posting is annoying because the content is not at the right place. This is essential especially for longer discussions.
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
quick search, didn't find anything yet, so thought I'd post here as well. Any solutions to this that you guys have seen/implemented?
Gmail and most other web mailers (also some desktop clients) are just crap for participating in mailing lists. Get a real mail software like Claws Mail or Thunderbird and connect to gmail with that.
One of the most important reasons I use Gmail is because it supports multi-factor authentication (mfa). MFA is great at helping keeping an account secure. Consider, the IETF has never updated SMPT, IMAP or POP to include MFA workflows.
For me, the choice had nothing to do with composition features. And to point out the obvious... top posting is a choice by the user. It is not a property of a mail client.
Jeff
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Apr 26, 2025, at 07:30, bruce badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Jeff.
thanks. as far as I can tell. and it could be user err!! one can reply at top or end. I haven't found a way within a msg to insert comments at a given point of a thread? let me know if there's a way!
thanks
I use gmail for my work account, it’s not too difficult. When replying, near the bottom of the message there are three grey dots. Click on them. It should expand to the message, where you can reply in-line.
For what it’s worth, I like using my iPad to read and reply to email, and every single time I post I have to copy my signature from the top of the message and paste it at the bottom, trim excessive quoted text, and general make it a bit more presentable. I have to be careful not to paste formatted text because the built in client likes to create MIME attachments if I do it wrong.
Jeffrey Walton writes:
One of the most important reasons I use Gmail is because it supports multi-factor authentication (mfa). MFA is great at helping keeping an account secure. Consider, the IETF has never updated SMPT, IMAP or POP to include MFA workflows.
Neither SMTP, or IMAP, or POP3, will ever "include MFA workflows" for the same reason that, say, a recipe for a strawberry shortcake will never include jalapeno peppers: it does not belong there. All three protocols implement SASL, and that's as far as they go, or should go.
A brief search finds several implementations of OTP on top of SASL. There's your MFA for SMTP, IMAP, and POP3. You're welcome.
On Sat, 2025-04-26 at 07:30 -0400, bruce wrote:
thanks. as far as I can tell. and it could be user err!! one can reply at top or end. I haven't found a way within a msg to insert comments at a given point of a thread? let me know if there's a way!
I use Gmail via IMAP for mailing lists, with Evolution as MUA, but occasionally on another machine have had to reply with the web interface and have taken care to do this correctly. It's trivial but laborious. Expand the message being replied to and simply edit it as you would anything else.
Gmail at one time had a "Labs" feature which made this much easier. It not only placed the cursor at the end but if you preselected the material you wanted to quote it included only that and not the whole message. Unfortunately that feature was retired several years ago, leaving manual editing as the only recourse.
poc
hi Johnathan.
did a quick test. gmail from android phone. saw the 3 dots at the end.. when selecting, the thread is displayed. but appears to be in a block that can't be manipulated. has solid left side lines that show indentation thread segments.
hmmm...
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 7:52 AM Jonathan Billings billings@negate.org wrote:
On Apr 26, 2025, at 07:30, bruce badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Jeff.
thanks. as far as I can tell. and it could be user err!! one can reply at top or end. I haven't found a way within a msg to insert comments at a given point of a thread? let me know if there's a way!
thanks
I use gmail for my work account, it’s not too difficult. When replying, near the bottom of the message there are three grey dots. Click on them. It should expand to the message, where you can reply in-line.
For what it’s worth, I like using my iPad to read and reply to email, and every single time I post I have to copy my signature from the top of the message and paste it at the bottom, trim excessive quoted text, and general make it a bit more presentable. I have to be careful not to paste formatted text because the built in client likes to create MIME attachments if I do it wrong.
-- Jonathan Billings -- _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025, 13:04 bruce, badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Johnathan.
did a quick test. gmail from android phone. saw the 3 dots at the end.. when selecting, the thread is displayed. but appears to be in
You mean like this?
a block that can't be manipulated. has solid left side lines that show
indentation thread segments.
Replying from my Android phone. Note that I also deleted all the crap at the end.
poc
Am 26.04.2025 um 07:07:49 Uhr schrieb bruce:
well.. I think your using the bully term is most appropriate! but not too welcoming if u want linux to spread to others! but im not trying to fight that battle.. the world is waaaay too screwed up for that!
If those people don't want to use a reasonable mailer, they might use web forums to ask their questions.
Am 26.04.2025 um 07:19:45 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton:
One of the most important reasons I use Gmail is because it supports multi-factor authentication (mfa). MFA is great at helping keeping an account secure. Consider, the IETF has never updated SMPT, IMAP or POP to include MFA workflows.
If people used long passwords and made sure they don't give them to phishing sites, not MFA would be needed.
For me, the choice had nothing to do with composition features. And to point out the obvious... top posting is a choice by the user. It is not a property of a mail client.
Some clients make inline posting almost impossible or very hard, e.g. current versions of Outlook.
Am 26.04.2025 um 07:52:08 Uhr schrieb Jonathan Billings:
For what it’s worth, I like using my iPad to read and reply to email, and every single time I post I have to copy my signature from the top of the message and paste it at the bottom, trim excessive quoted text, and general make it a bit more presentable. I have to be careful not to paste formatted text because the built in client likes to create MIME attachments if I do it wrong.
That's why I discourage using such clients for mail. I only use Claws Mail at home, I don't have a "smart" phone or a tablet, as I don't like their user interface.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 2:04 PM bruce badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Johnathan.
did a quick test. gmail from android phone. saw the 3 dots at the end.. when selecting, the thread is displayed. but appears to be in a block that can't be manipulated.
Works here.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 9:25 AM Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 2:04 PM bruce badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Johnathan.
did a quick test. gmail from android phone. saw the 3 dots at the end.. when selecting, the thread is displayed. but appears to be in a block that can't be manipulated.
Works here.
I wish I could use an alternative interface to gmail, such as thunderbird. Problem is, gmail has a really useful way of labeling mail into e.g., promotions, social, forums,... that just works so well and I don't think anything else can match. But these labels don't work through IMAP. So there just isn't any other interface that provides that vital (to me) feature.
Am 26.04.2025 um 09:38:41 Uhr schrieb Neal Becker:
I wish I could use an alternative interface to gmail, such as thunderbird.
Gmail supports IMAP, either with an app password or with OAuth.
Problem is, gmail has a really useful way of labeling mail into e.g., promotions, social, forums,... that just works so well and I don't think anything else can match. But these labels don't work through IMAP. So there just isn't any other interface that provides that vital (to me) feature.
You can create your own rulesets for that. Does gmail support + addresses?
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 7:57 AM Sam Varshavchik mrsam@courier-mta.com wrote:
Jeffrey Walton writes:
One of the most important reasons I use Gmail is because it supports multi-factor authentication (mfa). MFA is great at helping keeping an account secure. Consider, the IETF has never updated SMPT, IMAP or POP to include MFA workflows.
Neither SMTP, or IMAP, or POP3, will ever "include MFA workflows" for the same reason that, say, a recipe for a strawberry shortcake will never include jalapeno peppers: it does not belong there. All three protocols implement SASL, and that's as far as they go, or should go.
A brief search finds several implementations of OTP on top of SASL. There's your MFA for SMTP, IMAP, and POP3. You're welcome.
From RFC 9051, Section 6.2.2. AUTHENTICATE Command, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9051/:
Note that the SASL framework allows for the creation of SASL mechanisms that support 2-factor authentication (2FA); however, none are fully ready to be recommended by this document.
Jeff
On Sat, 2025-04-26 at 06:31 -0400, bruce wrote:
I'm using gmail, so recently, I had a few spare mins, and decided to check out.. can gmail permit the insertion of "content/comments" within a email thread..
as opposed to hitting "reply" and letting the app place the comment wherever it does.
I just did a test on an Android tablet, to see if it's changed since the last time. And while the gmail app is a hideous thing for writing and replying to emails, it is quite possible to break into the middle of a slab of text. It's not so great for reading mail either, but it's do-able.
(Hint, try a different reply button than the plain reply button.)
Likewise, my experience was similar via the gmail website, though it's easier to type because I have a proper keyboard.
Also, if I fetch my gmail on a mail client like Evolution, I can use it like proper email.
Just because the mail thingy you're currently using presents your cursor above a quoted slab of text does not mean that you have to type there. You can delete the blank space it'll put above quoted text. You can put the cursor somewhere else and reply. You can plonk the cursor into the middle of a block of text, hit return a few times and break the block apart. You can plonk it down below the quoted text.
That Google managed to make something worse than Hotmail is kind of staggering, but not surprising. Just finding my latest mail in my inbox is ridiculous effort. I tend to only use their web interface to fix something, and only use the mobile app for those things that require registration and email me a confirmation link.
For what it's worth, nearly ever email I reply to on here I edit the crap out of it, because rarely is a full-quote needed nor wanted, and I'm not lazy.
And if I have to reply to some crazy convoluted message that makes it hard to do a neat reply, either because of how they wrote it, or the thing I have to respond in is awful. I tend to delete the quoted text and respond like it's some kind of legal letter, and write a brief explanatory intro before my responses. For example:
1. In response your comment about top quoting...
Yes, I can avoid top quoting on the Gmail app, and their website. I delete the empty space it puts above the quote, then move my cursor to elsewhere on the page where I'm going to put my response.
2. And regarding putting responses into the middle of quotes...
Yes, I can drop the cursor into the middle of text, break it into sections, and reply the relevant parts of the text in a coherent manner.
3. Regarding liking gmails special features beyond normal email..
They're not something that I use.
To be honest, I only use gmail where I virtually have to. And there are advantages to having more than one address, using a completely different one for mailing lists.
Every now and then someone does a "it's too hard for me" to do things the same as everybody else. Usually it's not that hard. It just requires a bit of experimentation. Having to fit in with others is a part of life.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 8:20 AM Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025, 13:04 bruce, badouglas@gmail.com wrote:
hi Johnathan.
did a quick test. gmail from android phone. saw the 3 dots at the end.. when selecting, the thread is displayed. but appears to be in
You mean like this?
haa!!!
so. as I thought. a user error
doh!!
thanks poc!!
poc
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Jeffrey Walton writes:
On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 7:57 AM Sam Varshavchik mrsam@courier-mta.com wrote:
A brief search finds several implementations of OTP on top of SASL. There's your MFA for SMTP, IMAP, and POP3. You're welcome.
From RFC 9051, Section 6.2.2. AUTHENTICATE Command, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9051/:
Note that the SASL framework allows for the creation of SASL mechanisms that support 2-factor authentication (2FA); however, none are fully ready to be recommended by this document.
RFC 9051 is IMAP, but the same applies to POP and SMTP.