5tFTW: DNF and Mailing List Wars, F21 Branch, FESCo Election, Python 3.5, and Docs Beats (2014-07-08)
Reposted from http://fedoramagazine.org/5tftw-2014-07-01/.
Fedora is a big project, and it’s hard to follow it all. This series highlights interesting happenings in five different areas every week. It isn’t comprehensive news coverage — just quick summaries with links to each. Here are the five things for July 1st, 2014:
What Does “Winning” Mean for Fedora? ------------------------------------
The Fedora Project Board is exploring the question “What is success for Fedora?”, brought to the board-discuss mailing list by Board member Josh Boyer. This is a public mailing list for all Fedora community members, and we welcome your thoughtful contributions to the discussion.
* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board * https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/board-discuss/2014-July/012613.htm... * https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/board-discuss
FESCo Summer Election ---------------------
We are holding an election for three open seats on FESCo, the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. More information on Fedora Magazine, in an announcement I sent this morning, and of course directly on the Fedora Project wiki.
* http://fedoramagazine.org/election-announced-for-the-fedora-engineering-stee... * https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2014-July/001413.ht... * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections
Workstation To-Do List ----------------------
Fedora Workstation Working Group member Christian Schaller recently posted a message about the group’s new Tasklist wiki page, which details current and future tasks for the subproject, and explains how you can get involved (or simply better follow what’s currently going on).
* https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-June/009929.html * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist
Google Summer of Code Project: Bugspad --------------------------------------
Last week, I highlighted Google Summer of Code work in Fedora on the Waartaa chat system. This week, take a look at Fedora contributor Mayank Jha’s work on Bugspad, a new bug tracker focused on speed and aimed at replacing Bugzilla. In last Thursday’s Fedora Infrastructure meeting, Mayank notes that at test instance will be deployed on our internal private cloud and that he’s currently testing it with a million (auto-generated) bugs (the kind of load we need to handle in real-world Fedora).
* http://fedoramagazine.org/5tftw-2014-06-24/ * https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014 * https://www.waartaa.com/ * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mjnovice * http://bugspad.org/ * http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-06-26/infrastructure.20...
EPEL in CentOS 7 ----------------
And finally, a quick note from our sibling project, CentOS.
EPEL (“Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux”) is a long-standing Fedora subproject which targets Red Hat Enterprise Linux and CentOS, providing a wide universe of packages that aren’t provided by Red Hat. Many of these packages are very close to their Fedora equivalents, and it’s a common entry-point to Fedora for sysadmins and other folks who work in the enterprise world as their day job.
CentOS developer Jim Perrin notes on the centos-devel mailing list that, as of the upcoming CentOS 7 release, the `epel-release` package will be included in the centos-extras repository (although not installed by default). That means to get Fedora-produced EPEL packages on CentOS, you’ll just have to `yum install epel-release` and then install whatever you like.
* http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2014-June/011110.html
Let's try that again, with the right message body!
Reposted from http://fedoramagazine.org/5tftw-2014-07-08/.
Fedora is a big project, and it’s hard to follow it all. This series highlights interesting happenings in five different areas every week. It isn’t comprehensive news coverage — just quick summaries with links to each. Here are the five things for July 8th, 2014:
DNF and Protected Packages (and Mailing Lists) ----------------------------------------------
DNF is a next-generation package manager, scheduled to replace Yum in Fedora 22. Last week, there was a lengthy Fedora devel list thread, largely centered on DNF’s lack of a “protected packages” feature, which keeps users from inadvertently removing certain core software (like the package manager itself, or the running kernel).
On Thursday, DNF version 0.5.3 was announced, along with Core DNF Plugins 0.1.1, which contains a new protected_packages plugin. So, there we go.
It think it’s worth noting, though, that this a good example of how mailing list discussions often fail us. There were a lot of messages, but almost no new information in hundreds of posts — it’s mostly people going back and forth, feeling like they’re not being heard or listened to. And then, many people feeling frustrated and driven out of meaningful discourse by the noise.
That’s a dynamic we need to change. If something is really important and you feel that your view isn't counted, there are other channels by which issues can be raised — file a ticket with FESCo or the Fedora Project Board]FESCo], for example. Or, tell the FPL that you have a concern! Everyone *should* have a voice in Fedora, even though sometimes decisions have to be made even when not everyone agrees. Mailing list wars (even when the flames are smouldering rather than explosive) just aren’t the best way.
I know I’ve been as guilty of this as anyone over the years, but we need to get out of the Someone Is Wrong on the Internet trap — arguments aren’t won by quantity, and it isn’t necessary to have the last word in order to be heard. And, most importantly, try to steer the quality of discourse *up* with each post. This is the Fedora Code of Conduct, but more importantly, it’s our Friendship foundation.
* http://dnf.baseurl.org/ * http://yum.baseurl.org/ * https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-June/199808.html * http://dnf.baseurl.org/2014/07/03/dnf-0-5-3-and-core-dnf-plugins-0-1-1-relea... * http://akozumpl.github.io/dnf-plugins-core/protected_packages.html * https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ * https://fedorahosted.org/board/ * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Project_Leader * http://xkcd.com/386/ * https://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations
Fedora 21 Branch and Changes Freeze -----------------------------------
Today is the big day when the Fedora 21 package tree branches from the always-latest “Rawhide” development tree. This branched F21 tree will stabilize and become the Alpha, Beta, and — in October — Fedora 21 final release.
So, this is a big milestone — with a lot of work ahead! A lot of that work will be in Quality Assurance, and we could use your help on that front. There are lot of small and easy tasks which together make a big difference — see the Fedora QA wiki page for ways to get involved. (One simple thing you can do, even if you are not a a package maintainer, is to create a test case for a package that you’re familiar with.)
This is also the Changes Freeze — new features for Fedora 21 should be substantially finished and testable at this point. Note that this doesn’t mean that all changes are now blocked, just that the various items in the F21 Change Set should be ready for testing. The next big milestone in the schedule is the Alpha Change Deadline (which *is* a “code freeze”) on July 22nd, in preparation for an Alpha release on August 5th, just before Flock in Prague.
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes_Freeze_Policy * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/21/ChangeSet * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/21/Schedule * http://flocktofedora.com/
FESCo Summer Election in Progress ---------------------------------
FESCo is holding a special election to fill three empty seats. There are five nominees, and there will be an IRC “townhall” meeting sometime from July 10-15, with voting open for a week after that.
* http://fedoramagazine.org/election-announced-for-the-fedora-engineering-stee... * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations
Python 3.5 Nightly Builds -------------------------
Fedora packager Miro Hrončok annouced that he and Slavek Kabrda have a new Copr repository with nightly builds of development version of Python 3. Fedora tries to be leading edge without “bleeding”, which sometimes means we don’t move as fast as everyone would like. The Copr system is an easy way to build and maintain personal RPM repositories outside of the general package collection — so if you want more risk, you can take it.
This repository uses the Software Collections technology to install python35 into a parallel tree, so it won’t mess up your main system. You *can* eat your cake and have it too!
* http://copr.fedoraproject.org/ * https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-July/200791.html * https://www.softwarecollections.org/
Documentation Beats Are On! ---------------------------
Fedora Docs team member Petr Bokoc announces that it’s time to start working on the Fedora 21 release notes. This is another great way to get involved in Fedora or to branch out into a new area – see the wiki page on beat writing for more.
* https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2014-July/015657.html * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_beat_writing
*Remembering Seth* ------------------
One year ago, Seth Vidal was killed by a driver who struck his bicycle from behind. One year later, it’s still hard to imagine Fedora without Seth. We miss you.
Hi Matthew,
A few questions:
On Tue, Jul 08, 2014 at 09:41:21PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thursday, DNF version 0.5.3 was announced, along with Core DNF Plugins 0.1.1, which contains a new protected_packages plugin. So, there we go.
I'm guessing this is equivalent to the protect-packages plugin for Yum? I would like to know what is the status of not allowing a user to remove the running kernel with `dnf remove kernel'. Where can I find that?
Okay, while writing the email I found the release notes. I guess the problem is solved :). http://akozumpl.github.io/dnf-plugins-core/release_notes.html
That’s a dynamic we need to change. If something is really important and you feel that your view isn't counted, there are other channels by which issues can be raised — file a ticket with FESCo or the Fedora Project Board]FESCo], for example. Or, tell the FPL that you have a concern! Everyone *should* have a voice in Fedora, even though sometimes decisions have to be made even when not everyone agrees. Mailing list wars (even when the flames are smouldering rather than explosive) just aren’t the best way.
I'm a bit unclear on what such a ticket should say. One's personal perspective on the issue in contention, or a summary of mailing list discussions (with all the flames and embers edited out, maybe with references)?
Cheers,
On Wed, Jul 09, 2014 at 11:36:06AM +0200, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Thursday, DNF version 0.5.3 was announced, along with Core DNF Plugins 0.1.1, which contains a new protected_packages plugin. So, there we go.
I'm guessing this is equivalent to the protect-packages plugin for Yum? I would like to know what is the status of not allowing a user to remove the running kernel with `dnf remove kernel'. Where can I find that?
In the links in the message -- but, also, I meant for the above to mean that yes, it's implemented now. Sorry for not making that more clear.
I'm a bit unclear on what such a ticket should say. One's personal perspective on the issue in contention, or a summary of mailing list discussions (with all the flames and embers edited out, maybe with references)?
Generally, use cases are compelling. "I have this particular problem, with characteristics a, b, and c. I suggest this particular solution, because x, y, z." It also helps if you graciously recognize the factors playing into opposing proposals.
A de-flamed summary of the discussion with references is always great, too. Take a look at http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/04/09/fedora-board-fedora-userbase-discussion... and some other posts on Máirín's blog for a great example of this.
Hi Matthew,
On Wed, Jul 09, 2014 at 10:52:48AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 09, 2014 at 11:36:06AM +0200, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Thursday, DNF version 0.5.3 was announced, along with Core DNF Plugins 0.1.1, which contains a new protected_packages plugin. So, there we go.
I'm guessing this is equivalent to the protect-packages plugin for Yum? I would like to know what is the status of not allowing a user to remove the running kernel with `dnf remove kernel'. Where can I find that?
In the links in the message -- but, also, I meant for the above to mean that yes, it's implemented now. Sorry for not making that more clear.
I'm a bit unclear on what such a ticket should say. One's personal perspective on the issue in contention, or a summary of mailing list discussions (with all the flames and embers edited out, maybe with references)?
Generally, use cases are compelling. "I have this particular problem, with characteristics a, b, and c. I suggest this particular solution, because x, y, z." It also helps if you graciously recognize the factors playing into opposing proposals.
A de-flamed summary of the discussion with references is always great, too. Take a look at http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/04/09/fedora-board-fedora-userbase-discussion... and some other posts on Máirín's blog for a great example of this.
Thank you, that helps. :)
Sorry about the late response, I was busy with a conf last week and forgot.
Cheers,
Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org writes:
The Fedora Project Board is exploring the question “What is success for Fedora?”, brought to the board-discuss mailing list by Board member Josh Boyer. This is a public mailing list for all Fedora community members, and we welcome your thoughtful contributions to the discussion.
If I felt like I was a member of the "Fedora community", I'd ask if success is possible by not listening to what the users have to say.
-
lee -
Matthew Miller -
Suvayu Ali