Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. ===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. ===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
KDE 4 was released as it was because most of the interesting work required to make a maintainable next-generation desktop environment were done, and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture. Fedora and other fast-moving distributions adopted KDE 4 for this very reason.
I'm sure the KDE developers would welcome your patches.
-- Chris
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 01:02 -0400, Chris Snook wrote:
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. ===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
KDE 4 was released as it was because most of the interesting work required to make a maintainable next-generation desktop environment were done, and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture. Fedora and other fast-moving distributions adopted KDE 4 for this very reason.
I'm sure the KDE developers would welcome your patches.
The problem with that is I'm a KDE *USER*, not a KDE *DEVELOPER*. There is a difference. I don't have time to write code for the desktop manager that I use in my day to day work.
"and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture."
Then we have a problem, don't we. We have this group of people called users that need these boring, existing features.
I've been using Linux since Redhat 8. *NOTHING* that has happened since then has ever rocked my expectations of Linux as much as KDE4 has.
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 06:20 -0400, Linuxguy123 wrote:
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 01:02 -0400, Chris Snook wrote:
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. ===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
KDE 4 was released as it was because most of the interesting work required to make a maintainable next-generation desktop environment were done, and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture. Fedora and other fast-moving distributions adopted KDE 4 for this very reason.
I'm sure the KDE developers would welcome your patches.
The problem with that is I'm a KDE *USER*, not a KDE *DEVELOPER*. There is a difference. I don't have time to write code for the desktop manager that I use in my day to day work.
Do we have to go over all this yet again? The whole topic has been done to death on this list several times. In a nutshell: if you're using Fedora you're a *TESTER*. You have plenty of other distros to choose from if that doesn't suit you. Seriously. Just remember that the stability of those other distros is due in large part to the testing that the Fedora community (i.e. you and me and the rest of us) does on bleeding-edge stuff.
"and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture."
Then we have a problem, don't we.
Actually it's you who has the problem, and also the solution.
We have this group of people called users that need these boring, existing features.
I've been using Linux since Redhat 8. *NOTHING* that has happened since then has ever rocked my expectations of Linux as much as KDE4 has.
If your "expectations of Linux" are rocked, you have misunderstood what Linux is (Linux is not Fedora), what Fedora is (Fedora is not guaranteed to be stable), and what KDE is (KDE is not Linux either).
poc
2008/10/21 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com:
Do we have to go over all this yet again? The whole topic has been done to death on this list several times. In a nutshell: if you're using Fedora you're a *TESTER*. You have plenty of other distros to choose from if that doesn't suit you. Seriously. Just remember that the stability of those other distros is due in large part to the testing that the Fedora community (i.e. you and me and the rest of us) does on bleeding-edge stuff.
I wouldn't probably say that the users are primarily testers, but getting to use new stuff sooner than the users of some other distros is certainly one aspect of Fedora. Another important factor is the reluctancy to include a lot of backwards-compatibility stuff, like older versions of certain libraries, for example.
If the fast-paced and "living" nature of Fedora doesn't suit, it's certainly wise to consider using a more conservative distribution.
Linuxguy123 <linuxguy123 <at> gmail.com> writes:
Then we have a problem, don't we. We have this group of people called users that need these boring, existing features.
I've been using Linux since Redhat 8. *NOTHING* that has happened since then has ever rocked my expectations of Linux as much as KDE4 has.
Because you think it's better in the M$ world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista And unlike the KDE features you are complaining about, which the KDE developers are hard at work to bring back in KDE 4, those missing Vi$ta features will most likely never come back.
Kevin Kofler
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 01:32 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Linuxguy123 <linuxguy123 <at> gmail.com> writes:
Then we have a problem, don't we. We have this group of people called users that need these boring, existing features.
I've been using Linux since Redhat 8. *NOTHING* that has happened since then has ever rocked my expectations of Linux as much as KDE4 has.
Because you think it's better in the M$ world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista And unlike the KDE features you are complaining about, which the KDE developers are hard at work to bring back in KDE 4, those missing Vi$ta features will most likely never come back.
---- just a perspective, not knocking you Kevin and you should know that you and Rex have my undying admiration, but...
Simply because Microsoft does or does not do something should not neither be the progenitor nor the justification over what occurs in the open source world.
I'm quite certain that if having an active desktop for files & folders means no plasmoids on the Desktop, then I'd likely pass over the feature.
Craig
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Chris Snook csnook@redhat.com wrote:
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default "plasmoid" desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3's style.
===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
Actually, you can put files on the desktop. You need to drag them from dolphin, or somewhere, whilst the widgets are unlocked.
Its not the same as putting files in your Desktop directory, but you could always add a folder view of that directory to the desktop.
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Andrew Parker andrewparker@bigfoot.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Chris Snook csnook@redhat.com wrote:
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default "plasmoid" desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3's style.
===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
Actually, you can put files on the desktop. You need to drag them from dolphin, or somewhere, whilst the widgets are unlocked.
Its not the same as putting files in your Desktop directory, but you could always add a folder view of that directory to the desktop.
Yes I use the same (dragging and dropping on desktop). I don't use the Folder View Plasmoid.
Thanks, Anoop
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Chris Snook csnook@redhat.com wrote:
From: Chris Snook csnook@redhat.com Subject: Re: When will KDE4 get a desktop like in KDE3.x ? To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 5:02 AM Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================
The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2,
followed closely
by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable
and can crash while
managing the plasmoids. With the default
“plasmoid” desktop setting, we
can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not
supported, KDE3’s
style.
===========================================================================
http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop,
ala KDE3.x ?
Because you haven't implemented it yet.
KDE 4 was released as it was because most of the interesting work required to make a maintainable next-generation desktop environment were done, and there was no other way to force developers to get around to the important but boring work of porting existing features to the new architecture. Fedora and other fast-moving distributions adopted KDE 4 for this very reason.
I'm sure the KDE developers would welcome your patches.
-- Chris
other than "hide a panel", what is missing
I just got 4.1.2 and it looks great
One must go to the Fedora kde icon to get options but...
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
kwhiskerz <kwhiskerz <at> gmail.com> writes:
Auto-hide is back!!! I just discovered it under panel properties/more settings.
Only if you're using Rawhide (or the F9 build directly from Koji). The F9 build (kdebase-workspace-4.1.2-6.fc9) will hit updates-testing shortly.
WARNING: I can't repeat this often enough, but please DO NOT install the Rawhide (.fc10) package on F9, installing Rawhide packages on F9 can cause all sorts of problems. If you really can't wait, you can get the F9 build from Koji now. But it is just a matter of days for it to hit updates-testing (I don't know when the next push will be, but it shouldn't be more than a week from now).
Kevin Kofler
On Tuesday 21 October 2008 00:50:46 Linuxguy123 wrote:
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
You can on kde 4.1 for folder view plasmoids. kde 4.2 will allow this plasmoid to fill the whole screen.
If you want a reason this is so we can search on the internet. A good place to start is Aaron Seigo's blog.
Among other posts this is discussed here: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/05/no-more-desktop-icons-in-41.html
2008/10/21 Linuxguy123 linuxguy123@gmail.com:
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
You can, but someone has to create the functionality before it can be used.
In the meantime, why can't you just use the folderview widget? If you make it big enough, it is functionally very close to the old desktop.
The KDE developers have the desktop already working very well, though certainly not all the features from KDE 3 series are in. Some of them probably never will be, but I can't see why they'd have to be.
On Monday 20 October 2008 23:50, Linuxguy123 wrote:
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
You can. Use folder-view widget, and point it to the Desktop folder under your home directory.
However...
It could be argued that files and icons do not belong on the desktop, but rather in home directory. It could also be argued that one should use a file manager rather then desktop manager to manipulate files, while the desktop manager should be better suited to manipulate the desktop. It could further be argued that files and icons were already present on the desktop up to KDE 3.5 and that this was demonstrated to be a Bad Habbit, since the desktop usually becomes cluttered beyond any usability after some time. Finally, it could be argued that using plasmoids on the desktop rather than keeping icons on it enhances its usability.
I know that forcing people to change their habbits is very painful in general, invites a horrific amount of bitching and moaning, but --- as for example with taking bitter-tasting medications, learning math in school, using selinux --- it is for their own good.
I would suggest that you put some effort in getting yourself disciplined in having a directory hierarchy under your home dir to put files, and put plasmoids/widgets on the desktop.
OTOH, if you really really really absolutely need files and icons on the desktop, use folder-view widget. After a while you might get interested in having two or more folder-view widgets on the desktop showing the contents of several different directories, and then you might apreciate the hard-work of the KDE4 developers who made such a thing possible. In KDE 3.5 you are limited to just one folder, just like for ex. in Windows you are limited to just one desktop. Once you find out about the Better Way, you'll never look back... ;-)
HTH, :-) Marko
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Marko Vojinovic vvmarko@panet.co.yu wrote:
From: Marko Vojinovic vvmarko@panet.co.yu Subject: Re: When will KDE4 get a desktop like in KDE3.x ? To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 10:12 AM On Monday 20 October 2008 23:50, Linuxguy123 wrote:
Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop,
ala KDE3.x ?
You can. Use folder-view widget, and point it to the Desktop folder under your home directory.
However...
It could be argued that files and icons do not belong on the desktop, but rather in home directory. It could also be argued that one should use a file manager rather then desktop manager to manipulate files, while the desktop manager should be better suited to manipulate the desktop. It could further be argued that files and icons were already present on the desktop up to KDE 3.5 and that this was demonstrated to be a Bad Habbit, since the desktop usually becomes cluttered beyond any usability after some time. Finally, it could be argued that using plasmoids on the desktop rather than keeping icons on it enhances its usability.
I know that forcing people to change their habbits is very painful in general, invites a horrific amount of bitching and moaning, but --- as for example with taking bitter-tasting medications, learning math in school, using selinux --- it is for their own good.
I would suggest that you put some effort in getting yourself disciplined in having a directory hierarchy under your home dir to put files, and put plasmoids/widgets on the desktop.
OTOH, if you really really really absolutely need files and icons on the desktop, use folder-view widget. After a while you might get interested in having two or more folder-view widgets on the desktop showing the contents of several different directories, and then you might apreciate the hard-work of the KDE4 developers who made such a thing possible. In KDE 3.5 you are limited to just one folder, just like for ex. in Windows you are limited to just one desktop. Once you find out about the Better Way, you'll never look back... ;-)
HTH, :-) Marko
--
It could also be argued that this philosophy of yours is in direct conflict with the whole spirit and intent of the Linux environment in the first place.
Linux and it's environments were created to give users the freedom to use and configure their desktops any way they like.
To tell me that I should not lose abilities that I once had and used for the sake of some new dogma that someone else believes in is like chalk scrapping against a blackboard.
If I want to clutter my desktop with files and folders, that is my business not some developers.
On Tuesday 21 October 2008 21:19, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Marko Vojinovic vvmarko@panet.co.yu wrote:
It could be argued that files and icons do not belong on the desktop, but rather in home directory. It could also be argued that one should use a file manager rather then desktop manager to manipulate files, while the desktop manager should be better suited to manipulate the desktop. It could further be argued that files and icons were already present on the desktop up to KDE 3.5 and that this was demonstrated to be a Bad Habbit, since the desktop usually becomes cluttered beyond any usability after some time. Finally, it could be argued that using plasmoids on the desktop rather than keeping icons on it enhances its usability.
It could also be argued that this philosophy of yours is in direct conflict with the whole spirit and intent of the Linux environment in the first place.
For start, it isn't my philosophy. It is the KDE team philosophy, and I seem to remember someone pointing out that this is not even unique to them, but is actually a whole new "3D Desktop" approach that is under investigation by virtually all desktop environment teams out there (other operating systems included, not only Linux world). You know, the some-serious-psyhologists/engineers/scientists-investigating-the-best-way-of-interaction-between-a-human-and-a-machine stuff... People who elevated this interaction from the cli to gui in the first place, people who "invented" the concepts of windows, screens, pointers, mice, clicking, drag&drop, etc... It seems that *they* are pushing further, and it seems that *they* find the idea of icons on the desktop to be a drawback rather than a feature.
We are all witnessing the KDE gui evolving to something new, and I think it is just a matter of time before Gnome, XFCE, MacOSX, even Windows, start doing the same.
And I don't see how any of this has to do with spirit and intent of Linux environment. That Linux spirit is usually translated as the ability to make choices and customize things to your preference. The KDE4 environment sure gives you such ability. I see no problem there.
Linux and it's environments were created to give users the freedom to use and configure their desktops any way they like.
True. And, for the sake of the argument, say I want to have some icons displayed on the desktop, but say both from the Desktop folder and from the Music folder. In KDE 4 this is done by having two folder view plasmoids on the desktop. In KDE 3 this is downright impossible. I see only KDE 3 restricting my freedom to configure the desktop here, not KDE 4.
Version 4 is --- simply put --- a rewrite of the codebase with a goal to provide flexibility that was pretty impossible to have the old way. Of course, it is a work in progress, and some features are missing for the time being, but the more I play with the new desktop, the more usability I find that wasn't available in version 3. And this is a Good Thing, in general.
To tell me that I should not lose abilities that I once had and used for the sake of some new dogma that someone else believes in is like chalk scrapping against a blackboard.
Remember that once in the past the gui itself was "some new dogma" and there were people who disliked it and preferred the good-old-prompt. We are in a similar situation now. The prompt had its advantages, and it still does. The icons on the desktop had some advantages, and one can argue they still do. But there is also some *new*, upgraded functionality, and it is wiser to exploit it than bitch about the old-was-better.
If I want to clutter my desktop with files and folders, that is my business not some developers.
Go ahead, nobody is stopping you. You can even do that in a more complicated and intricate way than you could with KDE 3... ;-)
But really, all I see in KDE 4 is a new way of thinking about the desktop, and it seems to be more flexible than the old way (aside from some features yet to find their way back). I mean, given a brand-new Ferrari car, you can sure tie it to two horses and use it as a wagon, the Old Way... But once you instead try driving it as intended, I guess you will feel the benefit of the New Way. The Old Way is still possible, but not recommended, for obvious reasons. You are free to do it, but don't bitch to developers who say that it would be better to change your habbits and ditch the horse drive. To me it seems they have a point... ;-) Of course, this first version of the Ferrari seems to have a flat tyre, but that is a technical problem, not a conceptual one. Be patient, and the developers will fix all the glitches. But they will not revert to horse drive --- it is not considered a feature worth implementing.
Ok, I got carried away in analogies a bit... Yet again... ;-)
Best, :-) Marko
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 14:19 -0700, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
It could also be argued that this philosophy of yours is in direct conflict with the whole spirit and intent of the Linux environment in the first place.
Linux and it's environments were created to give users the freedom to use and configure their desktops any way they like.
To tell me that I should not lose abilities that I once had and used for the sake of some new dogma that someone else believes in is like chalk scrapping against a blackboard.
If I want to clutter my desktop with files and folders, that is my business not some developers.
---- and at some point in the KDE 4.2 release process, you will be able to do that. Until then, you can't. Get over it.
Craig
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
From: Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com Subject: Re: When will KDE4 get a desktop like in KDE3.x ? To: bruce.stanley@prodigy.net, "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:49 PM On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 14:19 -0700, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
It could also be argued that this philosophy of yours
is in direct
conflict with the whole spirit and intent of the Linux
environment
in the first place.
Linux and it's environments were created to give
users the freedom
to use and configure their desktops any way they like.
To tell me that I should not lose abilities that I
once had and
used for the sake of some new dogma that someone else
believes in
is like chalk scrapping against a blackboard.
If I want to clutter my desktop with files and
folders,
that is my business not some developers.
and at some point in the KDE 4.2 release process, you will be able to do that. Until then, you can't. Get over it.
Craig
It not a matter of getting over it Craig.
It a matter of standing for principles.
But these types of topics are like chocolate vs vanilla.
Just don't take my choices away! ;-)
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 05:54 -0700, BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
To tell me that I should not lose abilities that I
once had and
used for the sake of some new dogma that someone else
believes in
is like chalk scrapping against a blackboard.
If I want to clutter my desktop with files and
folders,
that is my business not some developers.
and at some point in the KDE 4.2 release process, you will be able to do that. Until then, you can't. Get over it.
Craig
It not a matter of getting over it Craig.
It a matter of standing for principles.
But these types of topics are like chocolate vs vanilla.
Just don't take my choices away! ;-)
---- which principles?
The principle that has Fedora being a leading edge/early adopter of new technologies?
Perhaps Fedora isn't the right distribution for you.
Craig
Linuxguy123 wrote:
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review: The Desktop ... With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. http://polishlinux.org/kde/quick-look-at-kde-42-svn/ Why can't we have files and icons on the desktop, ala KDE3.x ?
You can, you simply cut off the next sentence... "A plasmoid displaying the pointed-to folder contents has been added instead"
-- Rex
Linuxguy123 <linuxguy123 <at> gmail.com> writes:
When will KDE4 get a desktop like in KDE3.x ?
In KDE 4.2.
KDE 4.2 supports (well, will support, but the prereleases already support it) setting the folder view applet as the desktop instead of the standard Plasma desktop, which effectively provides an old-school desktop with files and shortcuts. The folder view applet in 4.2 has also been enhanced to remember the position of icons, just like the old KDE 3.5 desktop did.
Here is a comment from a recent KDE4.2 review:
============================================================================ The Desktop Plasma has most goals listed for inclusion in KDE4.2, followed closely by KWin. Currently Plasma behaves somewhat unstable and can crash while managing the plasmoids. With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting, we can add the plasmoids, but the files/icons are not supported, KDE3’s style. ===========================================================================
You'll notice the review says "With the default “plasmoid” desktop setting". This implies there's another one. :-) (And that other setting is the folder-view-as-desktop option I described above.)
Kevin Kofler
-
Andrew Parker -
Anoop -
BRUCE STANLEY -
Chris Snook -
Craig White -
Fred Silsbee -
Joonas Sarajärvi -
José Matos -
Kevin Kofler -
linux guy -
Marko Vojinovic -
Marko Vojinovic -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Petrus de Calguarium -
Rex Dieter